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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 07:51:45
Subject: 1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar - Now with pics!
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Screaming Shining Spear
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The goal – how do harlequins go as a standalone force against a very solid tournament list…
Eldar - CAD
Farseer, Jet Bike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God, Spirit Stone of Anath’lan (Warlord Trait – stealth for 1 turn to units within 12”) – Powers – Prescience, Guide, Summoning
4x5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent w TL Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon
Crimson Hunter
2 Wraith Knights, heavy wraith cannons
Officio Assassinorium
1 Vindicare Assassin
1745 total
I know the vindicare is less than perfect but he was on my shelf and my opponent went – what the hell, I will use him! The rest of the list is essentially a very solid serpent spam build. The vindicare would have been better served as a unit of warp spiders I think but in the end – this is still very solid for a take all comers list.
VS
Harlequin Formation - Cegorach's Revenge
Solitaire
3 Death Jesters
3 Shadow Seers, all lvl 2, 1 mask of secrets (1 Telepathy, 1 Sanctic, 1 Phantasm) – (Mental Fortitude, Shrouding, Psychic Shriek / Banishment, Purge Soul, Vortex of Doom / Peal of Discord, Laugh of Sorrows, Veil of Tears) – all join the large troupe
Troupe – 5 Players (3 Kiss, 1 caress, 1 embrace), troupe master with power sword, haywire grenades, Sky weaver Transport
Troupe – 5 Players (3 Kiss, 1 caress, 1 embrace), troupe master with power sword, haywire grenades, Sky weaver Transport
Troupe – 8 Players (4 Kiss, 2 caress, 2 embrace), troupe master with power sword, haywire grenades, Sky weaver Transport (warlord trait – Twisted Encore from DARK)
2x2 Sky Weavers with Haywire Cannon, Zephyr glaive
2 Void Weavers, Haywire Cannons
1747 total
I was really interested to see if the reroll 1’s was worth the cost of the formation tax – see the final thoughts at the bottom of this to see what I think!
Hammer and Anvil, Big Guns Never Tire (3 Objectives)
Harlequins choose table edge first, deploy first, go first (eldar fail to seize)
Turn 1
The harlequins are lined up across the very front of their deployment zone. The 3 Death Jesters advance into a ruin as a single unit – this would come to haunt me in a moment... The whole battle line moves up, runs or turbo boosts. All the eldar are set back in their deployment zone and out of range for the harlequin support weapons. The shadow seers manage shrouding and veil but only had 7 dice to work with.
The eldar surge forwards. The psychic phase starts and a unit of 10 blood letters is summoned near my large troupe. With that over – they start shooting. The vindicare fails to wound with his shield breaker on one of my shadow seers and the 2 wraith knights fluff their attacks thanks to mirage launchers. The 4 serpents however are much worse… I loose 1 jet bike to the first serpent (again hooray mirage launchers plus reroll 1’s!) but then loose a star weaver (carrying a troupe of 6) which is then wiped out by the third serpent. The last targets my unit of 3 DJ in the ruins and promptly ID’s them all with the serpent shield! Fail! One of the WK charges my solitaire while the other fails a 6” charge into the other starweaver carrying another troupe. The solitaire wounds the WK once with his caress and then H&R away to close the distance to the farseer.
Eldar KP – First Blood, 5 KP (3 DJ, Star Weaver, Troupe)
Harlequin KP – Nothing!
Turn 2
The harlequins line up multiple options this turn. The 6 model troupe disembarks and lines up a charge on 1 wraith knight. The large troupe moves up to threaten the second WK and the summoned blood letters. The 3 sky weavers and void weavers move to all get shots on 2 of the wave serpents who have been left almost touching side by side. The remaining to star weavers line up on the wraith knight near the large troupe but have range and LOS to the daemons as well. The solitaire blitz attacks, rolls an 8” followed by a 6” run in the shooting phase to be 1 inch away from the farseer. In the psychic phase, I again got VoT on the big troupe. I also managed shriek on the WK closest (at -2 LD thanks to the mask) but he rolls a 7 on 3d6 and lives. I have 5 dice left pop peal of discord which does nothing. 3 dice left and I get off laugh of sorrows. He fails the first test by 1 and then the second by 3! Its on 1 wound! In the shooting phase, the 2 star weavers finish the WK off and kill a blood letter as well. The 5 haywire templates manage a single hull point on 1 WS after 4 scatters in excess of 5 inches each time! The 5th scattered as well, he failed to jink and I rolled a 2… The small troupe charges into the WK and promptly roll a 6 for one of the kiss of death to wound rolls, slaying it outright. The large troupe charges the 9 strong blood letters and between the troupe master and 3 shadow seers, wipe out the unit for no loss. The Solitaire charges into the farseer and reduces him to a fine red paste smeared across his jet bike.
The eldar retaliation is brutal. 2 of the serpents move up to within 8 inches of the large troupe while the other 2 serpents move to engage the small troupe and void weavers. The Crimson hunter does not arrive. The large troupe takes a hammering – I loose the entire unit to the 2 serpents save for the 3 shadow seers in the back of the unit after the consolidation move. I also loose the other troupe to the other 2 serpents despite some very lucky reroll 1 situations. The vindicare strips a hull point from a void weaver – shaking it.
Eldar KP – First Blood, slay the warlord, 7 KP (3 DJ, Star Weaver, 3x Troupe)
Harlequin KP – slay the warlord, 4KP (farseer, 2 WK, blood letters)
Turn 3
The harlequins are all but spent. The solitaire bounds out to get a charge on 1 of the serpents while the 3 shadow seers (now apart enough to be 3 units) line up on the other. The 2 star weavers stay central to the table with the aim to kill the vindicare. The void weavers and sky weavers line up at the other 2 serpents. In the psychic phase I managed to get off shrouding but fail vortex. Shooting sees me kill the vindicare and the 2 serpents engaged with 4 haywire cannons both damaged to 1 and 2 HP respectively – thanks to some ludicrous scatters again. The solitaire charges into the first serpent and wrecks it hard with 2 auto glance and then a 6 from his other hits. The 3 shadow seers absolutely destroy the other with a mass of S6 attacks. The avengers pile out.
The Eldar move the avengers around their wrecks to draw LOS on the seers. The 2 remaining serpents move, 1 to drop avengers out to target the bikes while the other moves and then goes flat out towards the objective in my deployment zone. The crimson hunter turns up and lines up on the void weavers. The 2 avenger units closest to the shadow seers kill 1 each leaving me with just the telepath alive. The bikes survive the other 5 avengers. The sole remaining serpent who can fire kills 2 of the sky weavers with ease. The crimson hunter does nothing but make the void weavers jink.
Eldar KP – First Blood, slay the warlord, 10 KP (3 DJ, 2 SS, 1 sky weavers, 1 Star Weaver, 3x Troupe)
Harlequin KP – slay the warlord, 7KP (1 farseer, 2 WK, 1 blood letters, 1 vindicare, 2 wave serpents)
Turn 4
The solitaire moves across the board looking to kill the next wave serpent while the 2 void weavers get a rare treat of being able to fire on the crimson hunter in the air and the rear gun firing at the rear armour of the fleeing serpent. The 2 star weavers move to the centre of the board in an effort to deny the CH space to move. The remaining sky weaver lines up a shot on the fleeing serpent. The remaining shadow seer casts psychic shriek and wipes out an avenger unit. He also fires his grenade launcher at the other unit but fails to do anything. The 2 star weavers miss the CH. The remaining sky weaver again scatters off the serpent and the 2 void weavers fail to do anything thanks to snap shots from jinking. The only solid part of the turn is again the solitaire manages a charge on a serpent but he fails this turn and leaves it on 1 HP. The seer charges the avengers and we both fail to do anything.
The eldar are now running out of steam as well but still in the fight. The 5 avengers near my shadow seer move up onto the closest objective and fire on him but only manage 1 wound after rerolls to my saves. The CH moves across the board thanks to vector dancer and shakes one of the star weavers. The almost dead wave serpent moves up to the back objective in my deployment zone, disembarks the 5 avengers then lines up on the void weavers. He kills one of them and the other is on 1 HP and snap shots only. The wounded serpent near the solitaire moves, disembarks the avengers close to the centre objective. They fail to harm the sky weavers but will be close enough next turn to contest the objective. The solitaire survives the serpents shooting with ease
Eldar KP – First Blood, slay the warlord, 10 KP (3 DJ, 2 SS, 1 sky weavers, 1 Star Weaver, 3x Troupe)
Harlequin KP – slay the warlord, 8KP (1 farseer, 2 WK, 1 blood letters, 1 vindicare, 2 wave serpents, 1 dire avengers)
Turn 5
The solitaire moves to finish off the serpent. The sole remaining void weaver manages a lucky 6 on the remaining serpent which is failed to jink and see’s it wrecked. The 2 star weavers target the CH and manage a pen which stuns it. The sole remaining sky weaver is left out of position as I had it lined up to support the void weaver. In the assault phase I forget to move the sky weaver (BOO!) while the solitaire kills the last serpent on 1 HP. The shadow seer fails in a massive way after failing to get any powers off he dies to over watch from the avengers he declares he will charge!
The eldar move to control objectives – he only had 3 avenger units left on the table and they move onto all 3 objectives with onl the central one being contested by my star weavers but even they he is ObSec and I am not. His crimson hunter, now stunned, moves 18” forward and is wrecked as he ends his move on my star weavers! The scatter does not harm anything as the plane crashes. On a whim, he fires just 3 dire avengers (all that is in range) at the solitaire. He hits with 4 of his 6 shots and wounds with all 4. 3++, rerolling 1’s – easy I think… I literally roll 2 on all 4 dice and the solitaire dies.
Eldar KP – First Blood, slay the warlord, 11 KP (3 DJ, 2 SS, 1 sky weavers, 1 Star Weaver, 3x Troupe, 1 solitaire)
Harlequin KP – slay the warlord, 11KP (1 farseer, 2 WK, 1 blood letters, 1 vindicare, 4 wave serpents, 1 dire avengers, 1 crimson hunter)
We roll to see if the game goes on. If It does, I think I have a good shot at pushing it to a draw at the least. I can target the avengers in my deployment zone with the void weaver and sky weaver (who is close enough to charge in turn 6) while the 2 star weavers (along with the rear gun on the void weaver) can kill at least 1 unit of avengers which should give me a 2-1 on objectives, deny him line breaker (I cant get line breaker myself as I would be out of position on objectives) and give me the win. Even going on to turn 7 at that point would see me win it.
Re roll for the game to end… a 2. Game over. Eldar win.
FINAL SCORE
Eldar – Line Breaker, First Blood, slay the warlord, 11 KP (3 DJ, 2 SS, 1 sky weavers, 1 Star Weaver, 3x Troupe, 1 solitaire), 3 Objectives
Harlequin KP – slay the warlord, 11KP (1 farseer, 2 WK, 1 blood letters, 1 vindicare, 4 wave serpents, 1 dire avengers, 1 crimson hunter)
Thoughts…
This was A LOT closer than I first expected. We joked at deployment he would table me by turn 3 and after turn 1 it looked possible. I had used my mirage launchers but almost everything those serpents pointed at died. Killing the 2 WK in 1 turn came as a shock to him – he expected to lose one to the large troupe on the charge but when it all but died to the psychic powers he knew he had ever extended his attack. The death of the other was a nice surprise and while it could not be done reliably, even not killing it would potentially have seen me kill it in his turn and then free to engage the serpents nearby. I actually hurt myself by killing it outright! The massive brain fart I had with the DJ just highlights how much you have to think with this army – losing all 3 to a single serpent shield was just bad play on my part. The solitaire was a machine, killing his way through anything I put in front of him. Losing him on the last turn to a poor dice roll sucked but could not be helped. The shadow seers are amazing – I deliberately went with all 3 using different disciplines to see what I would combo. Had I gotten sanctuary, hammer hand, invisibility or any of the other very solid powers available – that unit could have been all but unkillable. As it was, I got mediocre powers and saw average returns. They are amazing in combat though and they will be very useful against low AV targets like the rear armour on transports! The sky weavers never saw combat so the zephyr glaives were wasted and the haywire scatters were just awful. I think I would run them with just the haywire in future. The sky weavers are fantastic – everything I love about running venoms with the ability to engage light armour. The void weavers – they did ok. I always looked at the haywire cannon as opportunity and treated them as sky weavers with unusual fire arcs and that seemed to be ok. I would not bother wasting points on upgrading them as I think (barring my terrible scatters) the haywire is more reliable.
Re Roll 1’s – is it worth it? I am not sure… I did get good use out of it and it did save me a bunch – especially when I used the mirage launchers turn 1. The solitaire is also a machine – he shrugged off a wave serpent worth of fire like it was nothing! Without it he would have been dead!
I need to get more games with the harlequins before I make up my mind on the best config but I think the army can have legs as a standalone. It’s even more unforgiving than the dark eldar and even more surgical in its application on the table than them as well. I have some pics of the game (unfortunately using my dark eldar as stand ins for the vehicles and bikes) if anyone is interested.
Thanks for reading!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/26 12:08:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 11:49:35
Subject: 1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Great report versus a tough army ! Really close.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 12:15:13
Subject: Re:1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'm collecting a pure Harlequins force, and I'm really excited to see how well you did with what looks like a very unrefined army! I saw so many upgrades with your forces, I was worried when I saw how badly Turn 1 went. I was thinking more minimum formation, then taking some allies to make a more well balanced list. I don't know how solo-Harlequins are supposed to combat fliers, so I feel I really need Eldar/Dark Eldar allies for that.
Thanks for the report! Can you do another with a Cegorach's Revenge formation plus another small allied force (as this also gives access to objective secured)?
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Galef wrote:If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 15:03:11
Subject: 1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
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Wow, very exciting.
Good for Harlies going against demon casting farseers. They deserve to go to Slaanesh.
Great report.
Did you just never have a chance to charge with the skyweavers?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 16:07:29
Subject: Re:1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
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Great report. Nicely done with a pure Harlie list.
IMO, revenge isn't worth it simply for having to run Skyweavers. However, that's in regards to a Harlies w/allies list. As a pure Harlies list you have to have the ranged AT, and skyweavers fill that role so you may as well run it. Otherwise, take a mask so you can ditch the skyweavers and save the points for allies. I was actually really surprised how badly they performed for you, and my expectations for skyweavers is about as low as it gets. Just reinforces my biases
Good to see you experiment with psychic powers too. As they're all in the same unit I'd stick to 1 Phantasm, 2 Telepathy though. By putting 2 in the same school you have decent odds of getting one power, but 2 in 2 different schools is too random. And of Hammerhand/Sanc vs Invis, it's invis all day all night. Hammerhand is only going to marginally increase their output (especially if kitted out w/weapons) and sanctic very marginally increases their defense. Invis allows you to be very bold with them and dominate the board, due to the exponential increase in durability.
Also agree on Zypher glaives on your list. Save the points for starmist rainment maybe for the Warlord. Turns your TM into a Solitaire save wise, which lets him tank really well with the re-roll 1 from revenge. I'd disagree on the Voidweavers upgrade. Remember that the upgrade has the option to snapshot, haywire doesn't. It's at least worth that for an additional 5 points given how often you'll be forced to snap shoot ( FMC, Jink etc).
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It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 17:18:26
Subject: Re:1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Regular Dakkanaut
North Coast, NSW, Australia
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Dash2021 wrote:Great report. Nicely done with a pure Harlie list.
IMO, revenge isn't worth it simply for having to run Skyweavers. However, that's in regards to a Harlies w/allies list. As a pure Harlies list you have to have the ranged AT, and skyweavers fill that role so you may as well run it. Otherwise, take a mask so you can ditch the skyweavers and save the points for allies. I was actually really surprised how badly they performed for you, and my expectations for skyweavers is about as low as it gets. Just reinforces my biases
Good to see you experiment with psychic powers too. As they're all in the same unit I'd stick to 1 Phantasm, 2 Telepathy though. By putting 2 in the same school you have decent odds of getting one power, but 2 in 2 different schools is too random. And of Hammerhand/Sanc vs Invis, it's invis all day all night. Hammerhand is only going to marginally increase their output (especially if kitted out w/weapons) and sanctic very marginally increases their defense. Invis allows you to be very bold with them and dominate the board, due to the exponential increase in durability.
Also agree on Zypher glaives on your list. Save the points for starmist rainment maybe for the Warlord. Turns your TM into a Solitaire save wise, which lets him tank really well with the re-roll 1 from revenge. I'd disagree on the Voidweavers upgrade. Remember that the upgrade has the option to snapshot, haywire doesn't. It's at least worth that for an additional 5 points given how often you'll be forced to snap shoot ( FMC, Jink etc).
What about it you fished for Sanctuary on a couple of Shadowseers / Farseers / Spiritseers? Or the equivalent on the Eldar Table? Would the +1 to re-roll a 4+ matter then?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/25 17:18:54
'Anyone can win, but it takes a good man to lose.'
-Louis Guzman |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 19:01:52
Subject: Re:1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
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Lurker wrote: Dash2021 wrote:Great report. Nicely done with a pure Harlie list.
IMO, revenge isn't worth it simply for having to run Skyweavers. However, that's in regards to a Harlies w/allies list. As a pure Harlies list you have to have the ranged AT, and skyweavers fill that role so you may as well run it. Otherwise, take a mask so you can ditch the skyweavers and save the points for allies. I was actually really surprised how badly they performed for you, and my expectations for skyweavers is about as low as it gets. Just reinforces my biases
Good to see you experiment with psychic powers too. As they're all in the same unit I'd stick to 1 Phantasm, 2 Telepathy though. By putting 2 in the same school you have decent odds of getting one power, but 2 in 2 different schools is too random. And of Hammerhand/Sanc vs Invis, it's invis all day all night. Hammerhand is only going to marginally increase their output (especially if kitted out w/weapons) and sanctic very marginally increases their defense. Invis allows you to be very bold with them and dominate the board, due to the exponential increase in durability.
Also agree on Zypher glaives on your list. Save the points for starmist rainment maybe for the Warlord. Turns your TM into a Solitaire save wise, which lets him tank really well with the re-roll 1 from revenge. I'd disagree on the Voidweavers upgrade. Remember that the upgrade has the option to snapshot, haywire doesn't. It's at least worth that for an additional 5 points given how often you'll be forced to snap shoot ( FMC, Jink etc).
What about it you fished for Sanctuary on a couple of Shadowseers / Farseers / Spiritseers? Or the equivalent on the Eldar Table? Would the +1 to re-roll a 4+ matter then?
Not really. Keep in mind 4++ = mirage launchers, and it's not a huge boon to those either. You go from a 1/2 chance of a save to 7/12. Not enough to really notice. At 3++ you go from 2/3 to save -> 7/9. Both times the chances only increase slightly, but the re-roll 1 exponentially increases in power as the Armor Save decreases (i.e. 4++ odds increase by 1/12, 3++ odds increase by 1/9, 2++ odds increase by 5/36). For regular Harlies odds are only go from 1/3 -> 7/18 (increase 1/18).
TL: DR-> If you don't want to take skyweavers, it is in no way shape form or fashion worth dragging them along for the re-roll 1s. If you want to take skyweavers, then you may as well run Revenge, since more DJs/Shadowseers aren't a bad thing.
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It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 19:07:17
Subject: Re:1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Thanks for the batrep. Nice comeback! A shame you couldn't get one more turn to pull out the draw.
I wasn't sure how the terrain was laid out, so I can't provide insight on how it could be used to your advantage. Against an equally mobile opponent, the "all out" approach on Turn 1 could leave yourself open to immediate retribution as you experienced. Again, I don't know how the board was configured, so this is just conjecture on my part.
Putting the DJs in one unit together is a risky proposition but can pay off handsomely. I did that in my first game, embedding them in a Troupe unit along with a Farseer, then splintering them off when it was safe to do so. I had that unit go up a flank and wrap back towards the center. The combined firepower is tremendously effective. Attaching them all to the same Heelequin Troupe is a great way to get the best of both worlds: superior shooting with ablative wounds to minimize losses to the DJs themselves.
I don't think a full Harlequin list requires many Starweavers at all. Running two large Troupes on foot and one six-man squad in a Starweaver has served me well. it also eliminates one KP from the list. An added benefit is putting a Phantasmancy SS with each foot unit to grant them both VoT while the Starweaver jets ahead to a safe, LoS blocking position upfield for a move/disembark/assault on Turn 2. If you wind up failing the VoT on one of your large foot Troupes, Run them to a safe intermediary position where you will lose as few as possible to retaliatory fire. Advance the foot Troupes as far forward as it would make your opponent come out closer to minimize the range on the 2d6x2 from VoT. If your opponent stays back, you're not dying. If they advance far forward to guarantee shots, they're within charge range on Turn 2.
Glad to see how successful you were against two WKs. I'm sure he was surprised at your effectiveness against them. That kind of potency in close combat is hard to ignore. A shame you couldn't get tied up longer to either win combat the following turn or Hit & Run on his follow-up turn to address other threats.
You had far more success with Cegorach's Revenge than I ever had. It took nearly two full games before I reaped the benefit of a rerolled 1 giving me a successful invul save. I have moved off of that formation in favor of the more flexible Harlequin Masque Detachment with The Heroes' Path formation for the Solitaire, Masked SS (usually Telepathy) and DJ, with a second DJ and two more SSs in the detachment for my two foot units. It's also quite apparent you were the victim of bad Haywire scatter throughout the game. Consider half of those bad scatters as hits and the complexion of the game is drastically different. That you were still in it at the end demonstrates how potent a solo Harlequin army can be.
I concur with others re: what powers to take. Dedicating each SS to Phantasmancy and Telepathy really does hone the benefits that befit this army best. I would consider taking Sanctic on one if my opponent was playing Daemons, but aside from that I like Phantasmancy best with Telepathy a strong consideration for the Masked SS.
Looking forward to more reports!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/25 20:34:00
Subject: 1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
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All theory here but I plan on the masque and forgo the formation as 1s rerolling sounds cool on paper but seems based more on luck.
It gets marginally better IF you roll hammer hand and get it off but still not reliable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Though great to hear it did come into play.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/25 20:34:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/26 12:08:25
Subject: Re:1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar
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Screaming Shining Spear
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Now with pics!
Deployment
Turn 1
Turn 2
Bottom of 2
Bottom of 5
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/26 18:59:01
Subject: Re:1750 Pure Harlequins vs Serpent Spam Eldar - Now with pics!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Thanks for the photos of the board. I like your terrain. Quite vibrant!
I noticed you had the Solitaire and DJ solo, and the SS with the Troupe. Did you do formations for this Harlequin add or was it unbound?
Re: the terrain, My only recommendation would have been to run the Troupe through the ruin to give it a 4+ cover save if not LoS blocking entirely as it advanced up the board. Not that it mattered much on your initial turns as you were able to take out the WK at mostly full strength. This terrain setup in general wasn't advantageous for you at all. Too little blocking terrain between you and your opponent.
Good job in relation to the terrain, though.
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