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gummyofallbears wrote:
What do the different types of bloodthirsters do differently than the old one?

Check the first post of this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/640191.page

One is a str D vehicle killer, has rage but is Int 1 so little use vs knights... . The other has... an extra attack, adamantium will hatred characters, a heavy flamer and a decent shooting attack which is handy vs FMCs (but still too weak to threaten flyers).

..The third is exactly the same as the current BT.

The daemonkin versions get fearless instead of instability but lose access to gifts.

I saw on another site that Bloodcrushers can be taken as equipment, which is actually pretty awesome. Might go a long way towards making them viable. So in that vein, who can actually take a bloodcrusher?

Also, here's an interesting one, possibly for YMDC, but can an IC who has "Blood for the Blood God" give that rule to the unit he joins? Because if so, I have some serious allying to do.

What do you mean Bloodcrushers can be taken as equipment that doesn't make sense. Bloodcrushers I'm pretty sure are just Bloodletters on Juggernauts of Khorne.

I assume you mean mountign chaos lords and heralds on juggernoughts? which you could do anyway.

Unless someone messed up and allowed a DP to ride a jugger haha

Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

You have to buy two: one for each foot.

 pretre wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

You have to buy two: one for each foot.

If each one gave him +1T, +1A and +1W + 12" movement I definitely would

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

If you happened to have any Independent Characters (which I believe would count as a separate unit just like they do for Kill Points or First Blood etc), then you could potentially pick up 3 Tithe points for the loss of a unit - 1 for a character dying in a challenge, 1 for the Independent Character dying and 1 for the unit itself dying.

How's this look:

Chaos Lord w/ Jugger , 2 Powerfist, Blood Talisman thingie, Sigil

8 Attacks on the Charge. 3 + , Eternal Warrior , FNP , 4 W , T5 ST9 On the charge if he get's the Furious Charge boost from Blood Tithe.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

Yes, only Chaos Lords (who do not have a bike, jumpack or terminator armour) and Heralds can take Juggernauts. Before anyone asks, Heralds cannot take bikes or jumpacks

I think the Jugger Lord is the best bargain, although he's horrendously expensive. Maybe go with 1 Powerfist?

Can he just straight up by a Axe of Khorne?

Hollismason wrote:
I think the Jugger Lord is the best bargain, although he's horrendously expensive. Maybe go with 1 Powerfist?

Can he just straight up by a Axe of Khorne?

Yes, Axe's of Khorne are in the Melee Wargear list for 30pts

Then

Chaos Lord w/ Axe of Khorne, Power Fist , Sigil , Armour , Juggernaut

I got 215 , books are not near me.

3 + 2 + 1 , 6 Attacks on the charge, 7 if he's with the Bloodcrushers ( this is a maybe) that get the +1.

Hollismason wrote:
Then

Chaos Lord w/ Axe of Khorne, Power Fist , Sigil , Armour , Juggernaut

I got 215 , books are not near me.

3 + 2 + 1 , 6 Attacks on the charge, 7 if he's with the Bloodcrushers ( this is a maybe) that get the +1.

That is a really really expensive lord and an expensive and terrible unit to run him with, it however would look awesome with his juggy buddies

Keep it cheap and optimal.

A PF and the axe of khorne is way too much, go with PF+LC is a lot cheaper and you still get the +1 attack, but even then I wouldn't get it. +15 pts for an extra attack isn't worth it.

Go with juggy, sigil, Power Axe OR PF OR Artifact boosting axe, melta bombs. Thats a 155 juggy lord with 6 attacks S5 on the charge or 5 Attacks S8 if going with the PF at 165 pts.

And instead of blood crushers, flesh hounds, they are cheaper and more durable when comparing point vs point with the spawns/blood crushers

Does he still get the attacks if he has a Powerfist and Power Axe? BTW that's Smash whatever Khorne style.

Chaos Lord, Powerfist , Lighting Claw, Sigil, Blood Armour Juggernaut.

8 Attacks if you pick the level 4 Blood Tithe.

My idea was to stick him with Flesh Hounds but they wouldn't be able to scout I don't think.

Chaos Super Khorne Lord , Powerfist , Lighting Claw, Sigil Blood Armour Juggernaught
5 Posssessed
8 Blood Letters w/ Instrument , and Icon
8 Blood Letters w/ Instrument and Icon
Some Chaos Bikes
Some Khorne Flesh Hounds
2 Soul Grinders
2 Mauler Fiends

Done.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

Where does it say that a character only counts as generating a Blood Tithe point if he's killed in a challenge?

It doesn't because of the way the sentence is worded.
Characters get a point when slain. They also get one for killing a dude in a challenge.

 Ignatius wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

Where does it say that a character only counts as generating a Blood Tithe point if he's killed in a challenge?

Yeah, there's a comma on the sentence which makes it look like if the character dies regardless of being in challenge he gets the point.

A Blood Tithe point is generated when:

"A character with the Blood for the Blood God! special rule is slain, or slays an enemy character in a challenge."

 pretre wrote:
It doesn't because of the way the sentence is worded.
Characters get a point when slain. They also get one for killing a dude in a challenge.

Right. I generally like to debate with the Socratic Method- hence the question.

 Ignatius wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

Where does it say that a character only counts as generating a Blood Tithe point if he's killed in a challenge?

That was the way I read it. The part of the Blood Tithe rule that talks about generating points has two separate 'dot points' if you will. One says that units who kill an enemy unit, or are killed, generate a point. The other one says that characters who kill a character in a challenge, or are killed in a challenge, generate a point.

I'm at work, so don't have the codex on hand, but that's how I remembered it. I'll take a look at the exact wording when I get home.

Misread that but yeah if one of your characters is dead then you get a blood point.

Buy units of Cultists x 4

Put the Character up front Remove him from the squad first. Gain a Blood Point

Fail Leadership check, choose to instead remove the unit from the board.

Gain Blood Point

2nd Turn Use BLood Points to Summon Daemon Prince on the Last Squad or a BLood Thirster.

Fail Leadership check, choose to instead remove the unit from the board.

What? This is a thing you can do?

Yeah they have that as a special rule apparently.

Also, I have seen the artefacts page and it says one per army.

Do the army listings say " They can only have one" artefact?

Cause if not wooooohoooooooooooooooo

 McGibs wrote:

Fail Leadership check, choose to instead remove the unit from the board.

What? This is a thing you can do?

Cultists from the Slaughtercult Formation get this rule - if they fail a morale test, you can choose to just straight up remove any remaining models from the board. Which will mean you get a Blood Tithe point.

You get 2 as well if you elect to take the Character off first which is kind of funny. 60 points for two blood points.

Wait...the rules in the codex say that we use blood points at the beginning of our turn. So say we summon a bloodthirster. The rulebook states that we -must- declare what mode they will be in during movement.


So the BT summoned at the start starts as swooping, then declare gliding during movement...bloodthirsters only have to pay the same penalty as any unit that deep strikes (no assault for 1 turn)...the rulebook makes no mention that if they come in before move ment as swooping we cannot change.

Angrygrot wrote:
Wait...the rules in the codex say that we use blood points at the beginning of our turn. So say we summon a bloodthirster. The rulebook states that we -must- declare what mode they will be in during movement.


So the BT summoned at the start starts as swooping, then declare gliding during movement...bloodthirsters only have to pay the same penalty as any unit that deep strikes (no assault for 1 turn)...the rulebook makes no mention that if they come in before move ment as swooping we cannot change.

You pick flight modes at the start of the models movement. But if you arrive from deep strike then that is your movement. So you don't get a chance to switch modes after you deep striked in because you don't move that turn.

Ohhh I was reading it as the movement step of your turn. Dangit why the heck would they give us something that will never be used? At best we can summon a BT by turn 3...and thats really pushing it. By the time he can do anything I'm shaking my opponents hand.

GW must have REALLY not wanted to sell those new BT sculpts. I didn't realize they hated money so much. Maybe I had them pegged wrong after all.

I know about the comma but it seems very strange that a character will generate a Blood Point just when dying so challenges aren't needed for that... Don't quite believe it.

In a 2000+ points army would two Blood Host detachments be viable? I mean to generate 2 Blood Points a turn... That's 300 points spend on Possessed Marines.