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So, a few questions about the Big Squiggoth that I feel never got satisfactorily answered:

If it runs, can the unit inside fire out?

Can units embarked fire at all ?(theres some weird wording in the rules for it, thoug it says they effect the model itself, not the units embarked)

If a big squiggoth is locked in combat, can the unit inside fire out, since its not fighting?


The only one I have a good answer for for myself is the second one, which I believe is a "yes" due to vague wording, and that another squiggoth entry states that its guns must be fired by a model embarked on it, thus implying that embarked units can shoot normally. Also, any time I've seen them run, there is no argument about the embarked models firing out.

No input or opinions?

BossMakk wrote:
So, a few questions about the Big Squiggoth that I feel never got satisfactorily answered:

If it runs, can the unit inside fire out?

Can units embarked fire at all ?(theres some weird wording in the rules for it, thoug it says they effect the model itself, not the units embarked)

If a big squiggoth is locked in combat, can the unit inside fire out, since its not fighting?


The only one I have a good answer for for myself is the second one, which I believe is a "yes" due to vague wording, and that another squiggoth entry states that its guns must be fired by a model embarked on it, thus implying that embarked units can shoot normally. Also, any time I've seen them run, there is no argument about the embarked models firing out.

I would have to say probably not! The squiggoth is in combat and therefore I would assume if the orks inside stay inside then they wouldn't be able to fire. Now if they disembark you might be bringing up a different situation entirely.

You'll need someone with the rules for it to answer your queries, but i'd a guess i'd say "No" then "Yes".

It really depends on how the Gargantuan Creature rules interact with the core Rulebook. Usually moving Flat out (=~ running) does not allow passengers to shoot, and Transports not being locked in combat means passengers can shoot when "In close combat".

Yeah, i had kinda hoped that I coukd shoot while the transport is in combat, but eh.

So, my only argument for not being able to shoot while the creature runs is that, specifically, it IS a run action, and the entry for monstrous transport states that the only vehicle rules the Squiggoth rules use are those related for embarking/disembarking as it pertains to models gettin on/off. So i thought snap fire might be possible, since even I'd you did want to use movement and shooting the beastie is only going Cruising speed. But i dunno. I didn't get a degree in rules lawyering., thus why i brought it up here

I'll refer back to a previous post:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/618096.page

 DanielBeaver wrote:
I'm not sure that the passengers have permission to shoot in the first place. The Squiggoth "counts as an Open-topped transport vehicle, with a Transport capacity of 15 models, for the purposes of allowing infantry models to embark and disembark from it." It also specifically mentions that the Monstrous Transport rule does not bestow any other vehicle rules - so I think it wouldn't use the Fire Points rules at all (since they are not related to embarking and disembarking).

If they do have permission to shoot, then yeah they could shoot even after the Squiggoth runs. They would actually count as being stationary, since they only count as having moved if the vehicle moved at combat speed (which a Squiggoth never does).

If the unit inside does have permission to shoot, then I can't think of any particular reason why they can't shoot while the squiggoth is locked in close combat. But I don't think they can shoot in the first place.

The SH Walker rules, of which we have one transport SHW, do not make a distinction for emabarked units firing when their transport is locked in combat. As they do not meet any criteria from being disallowed shooting, they may shoot

Similarly running only stops the model from firing, not anything embarked. So they may shoot while the squiggoth runs.

Okay, ups and downs.

There is nothing that says either way whether the unit can or cannot shoot out to begin with, only lots of implied stuff (counts as open topped for embarked units, emplaced weapons must be manned by embarked units, etc)

Are there any sources that I could use to back up either shooting argument? Just if people get argumentative. Just so i can have a "Look, here is RAW, until it's FAQd this is how I will play it".

IF theyre given permission to shoot to begin with, then nothing about the basic rules for the squiggoth running or being engaged in combat affects this general permission.

Its generally accepted that they can shoot out, but you would need t confirm the precise rules around it.

Awesome, thanks!

Squiggy is one of those units that is unlike any other....A MC that can act as a mobile open top transport. I have not seen any rules about if the unit can shoot while squiggy is in CC. But I would see it being allowed as the Transport is in CC, Not the actual passengers.

It is a grey area , But thats how I would play it in my group.

Cool.

So, for wrap up, here's how I think I'll run it

1:units can shoot out, it's referred to as OT, and the Gar Squiggoth specifically states that some of its weapons must be fired by embarked orks-> implying they can shoot.

2: I will not run and shoot embarked units out. Maybe technically legal, but there is argument on both sides and I'd rather roll dice than nit pick interpretations.

3:units embarked can shoot even if the transport is in CC. Nothing forbids this, and other transported units can shoot out even if their vehicle is stuck in CC with a unit. However, of course, they must shoot at a unit not engaged in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Final arguments?

For Point 3: It is completely legal for Occupants of a Rhino to fire at the Unit that charged the Rhino (They are not engaged in CC). The point is usually moot because the charging Unit destroys the Rhino.

But as such, your restriction of "they must shoot at a unit not engaged in CC. " could go both ways here. Of course the Unit engaged with the Gar Squiggoth is "engaged", but for Vehicle transports, you'd have allowance to target that Unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd say: go legal or go "not legal".

A) Can run and shoot (legal), but cannot target the Unit in CC with the Squiggoth (legal)

or

B) Cannot run and shoot (Like Vehicle transports), but can target the Unit in CC with the Squiggoth (Like Vehicle transports).

B) isnt always true. If they did an open topped Gorka/Morkanaught then the vehicle WOULD be locked, and couldnt be shot at.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
B) isnt always true. If they did an open topped Gorka/Morkanaught then the vehicle WOULD be locked, and couldnt be shot at.

I was thinking Passengers shooting at the Charging Unit, not another enemy shooting at the Squiggoth, but indeed, it would be complete House-rule territory.

I'd just go with following the Rules ("A") if i played against this Unit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
B) isnt always true. If they did an open topped Gorka/Morkanaught then the vehicle WOULD be locked, and couldnt be shot at.

The Stompa is the example you're looking for

SHWalker with transport capacity and fire points. It's always been a hit of a grey area as to what happens when it is locked in combat.