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LordBlades wrote:


And in return Tau will get an awesome formation like the Decurion that will make everyone rage :p

To be fair with GW you can never know They're so bad at game balance that we might end up with the new FotM codex, a big pile of gak or anything in between.

Decurion only works if you are in a group that lets someone take dozens of formations as an army and lets be real, its basically unbound BS at that point and no one wants that.

All this is is GW pushing formations down your throat until you just except it, and look at where the state of the game is because of that attitude.

 Ravenous D wrote:

LordBlades wrote:


And in return Tau will get an awesome formation like the Decurion that will make everyone rage :p

To be fair with GW you can never know They're so bad at game balance that we might end up with the new FotM codex, a big pile of gak or anything in between.

Decurion only works if you are in a group that lets someone take dozens of formations as an army and lets be real, its basically unbound BS at that point and no one wants that.

All this is is GW pushing formations down your throat until you just except it, and look at where the state of the game is because of that attitude.

I think you greatly underestimate the number of people that accept formations/ special detachments.

Obviously I can only talk about my group, which is pretty much 'anything but.unbound and no FW proxies for events', but I've seen way more forum posts about groups that don't accept unbound than about groups that don't accept formations.

To be realistic, detachments like the Decurion are thevway this game is going forward, like it or not. Sooner or later people will.have to accept it.

 Vector Strike wrote:


I don't think a new codex is coming at all. Just like Tyranids - new formations in a campaign book. Maybe some new units.

The entire Necron codex was technically just a list of data slates. The game is moving into an arena where the FOC is irrelevant. Another relic is this idea that there won't be a codex because there was just one a few years ago. The major books remaining to be updated for 7th are Daemons, CSM, DA, Tau, SM and Eldar. There is an excellent chance that five of six are DONE by year's end.

The July box set is rumored to be "Chaos" vs. DA. It's entirely plausible that all three of those codices release before August. GW isn't going to run out of content to push out because Chaos alone will likely be split into cult variants, in addition to Kroot Mercs and AdMech type releases. It's just going to keep expanding.

 The Shrike wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:


I don't think a new codex is coming at all. Just like Tyranids - new formations in a campaign book. Maybe some new units.

The entire Necron codex was technically just a list of data slates. The game is moving into an arena where the FOC is irrelevant. Another relic is this idea that there won't be a codex because there was just one a few years ago. The major books remaining to be updated for 7th are Daemons, CSM, DA, Tau, SM and Eldar. There is an excellent chance that five of six are DONE by year's end.

The July box set is rumored to be "Chaos" vs. DA. It's entirely plausible that all three of those codices release before August. GW isn't going to run out of content to push out because Chaos alone will likely be split into cult variants, in addition to Kroot Mercs and AdMech type releases. It's just going to keep expanding.

I'd love to receive a new codex, but... Tyranids' is 6th like ours and Shield of Ball didn't bring a new codex for them. That's why I' not expecting a full-fledged book.

Still, I'd love as well to get the Necron treatment. Hunter Cadre Formation ftw (War Zone Damocles' Hunter Cadre formation could be a source for ours)

Nerfs to the Riptide, and make rail weapons a thing again. The HYMP is too much of a no-brainer.

I'd like to just see flyers that aren't as ugly as gak... Most everything else I'm okay with, but those flyers!

The horror, the horror...

1. Jet pack equipped ethereal
2. Lance for Rail Weapons
3. Deep Striking Skimmers
4. Price increase for Ion Accelerator
5. Swap Prices for EWO and Vector Tracker.

6. Riptides moved to LoW with similar deployment like lictors (can take up to 3, can deploy seperately)
7. Fusion Blades made standard equipment.

The biggest problem about moving the Riptide to a LoW is that GW didn't do it to the Dreadknight so it would be extremely unfair if 2/3 (Riptide and Wraithknight) of the uber MCs get turned into LoWs yet the biggest offender (IMO) stays as a heavy support choice.

However I do think that all three should be LoWs.

If anyone is going to be made a LoW it will be Farsight. He'll get better and more expensive. It just follows the trend of Calgar, Imotekh, Ghazzghull et cetera. They seem to be redefining LoW not as some huge MC/vehicle but as a named character commander of a sizable portion of specific races.

 The Shrike wrote:
If anyone is going to be made a LoW it will be Farsight. He'll get better and more expensive. It just follows the trend of Calgar, Imotekh, Ghazzghull et cetera. They seem to be redefining LoW not as some huge MC/vehicle but as a named character commander of a sizable portion of specific races.

But why Farsight when Aun'Va is more important and is not a rebel?

 carldooley wrote:

6. Riptides moved to LoW with similar deployment like lictors (can take up to 3, can deploy seperately)

You make me sad. Stop making me sad.

Came into question today at my FLGS, since the new Tau Codex is coming out there may be a chance that the Farsight Enclave Supplement will become invalid. If that happens what do you think will happen, will the Farsight Enclaves become a Formation? Or are they more likely to just FAQ the current book?

Why would it become invalid? o.O

-Bring back Multi-tracker and Target Lock for the vehicles
-nerf the Riptide stats-wise, switch Ionhead and Riptide Ion cannon stats.
-Make Multi-tracker an optional wargear for the Battlesuits, so the Suit armoury actually becomes interesting again
-Make the Kroot S4 again, or at least make Kroot Rifle to give extra attack like in the past
-remove the Markerlight's ability to boost other Markerlights

Backfire wrote:
-Make Multi-tracker an optional wargear for the Battlesuits, so the Suit armoury actually becomes interesting again

People will still buy it, as they did with the previous codex. Being able to fire 2 weapons is an advantage too good to let it pass.

Kroot Shaman. Make the psychic phase not a dead phase for the Tau book.

Why not make both Farsight and Aun'va Lords of Wars in their own respective Codex/Supplement?
Maybe even make it so Farsight can only be taken from the supplement while they are at it, and it would be a better fit all round.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Backfire wrote:
-Make Multi-tracker an optional wargear for the Battlesuits, so the Suit armoury actually becomes interesting again

People will still buy it, as they did with the previous codex. Being able to fire 2 weapons is an advantage too good to let it pass.

Well, not always as you had to choose between Targeting array and Multi-tracker. Sometimes TA was a better choice depending on what you wanted from your suits.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

I love how everyone whines so much about marker lights. Any competent player can easily eliminate all tau marker lights in 1-2 turns. Pathfinders and drones die very easily. And it is not like using marker lights is a free upgrade tau get. You have to pay for entire squads (that die easily) to be able to have marker lights.

Except it's not as easy as you make it out to be. The range on markerlights is larger than most standard guns and unlike Tau it's not easy to get ignores cover on every weapon imaginable in the codex.

The ignores cover part should be removed from marker lights. It's just a gakky rule, how in gods name does shining a laserpointer at my units suddenly remove their cover? It provides targettig data, which should give other Tau an easier aim at their targets, not make them able to bend bullets around corners.

Give them guaranteed precision shots on hit when spending 2 or more markerlights to increase BS but for god's sake gove me my cover.

DaPino wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

I love how everyone whines so much about marker lights. Any competent player can easily eliminate all tau marker lights in 1-2 turns. Pathfinders and drones die very easily. And it is not like using marker lights is a free upgrade tau get. You have to pay for entire squads (that die easily) to be able to have marker lights.

Except it's not as easy as you make it out to be. The range on markerlights is larger than most standard guns and unlike Tau it's not easy to get ignores cover on every weapon imaginable in the codex.

The ignores cover part should be removed from marker lights. It's just a gakky rule, how in gods name does shining a laserpointer at my units suddenly remove their cover? It provides targettig data, which should give other Tau an easier aim at their targets, not make them able to bend bullets around corners.

Give them guaranteed precision shots on hit when spending 2 or more markerlights to increase BS but for god's sake gove me my cover.

If Ignore Cover goes away from Markerlights, the Perfect Timing should go as well.

JinxDragon wrote:Why not make both Farsight and Aun'va Lords of Wars in their own respective Codex/Supplement?

That's a better idea. Why not both? is always the better idea!

Backfire wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Backfire wrote:
-Make Multi-tracker an optional wargear for the Battlesuits, so the Suit armoury actually becomes interesting again

People will still buy it, as they did with the previous codex. Being able to fire 2 weapons is an advantage too good to let it pass.

Well, not always as you had to choose between Targeting array and Multi-tracker. Sometimes TA was a better choice depending on what you wanted from your suits.

Care to enlighten me on how having 1 weapon at BS4 is better than 2 weapons at BS3? Mathhammer doesn't agree with you.

DaPino wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

I love how everyone whines so much about marker lights. Any competent player can easily eliminate all tau marker lights in 1-2 turns. Pathfinders and drones die very easily. And it is not like using marker lights is a free upgrade tau get. You have to pay for entire squads (that die easily) to be able to have marker lights.

Except it's not as easy as you make it out to be. The range on markerlights is larger than most standard guns and unlike Tau it's not easy to get ignores cover on every weapon imaginable in the codex.

The ignores cover part should be removed from marker lights. It's just a gakky rule, how in gods name does shining a laserpointer at my units suddenly remove their cover? It provides targettig data, which should give other Tau an easier aim at their targets, not make them able to bend bullets around corners.

Give them guaranteed precision shots on hit when spending 2 or more markerlights to increase BS but for god's sake gove me my cover.

This will never happen. Since their inception, markerlights (including their ability to remove cover) have been central to the Tau aesthetic and style of play. Very rarely does GW alter mechanics like that. Now, it may change (like We'll Be Back evolving into Reanimation Protocol) but it almost certainly won't be removed. Personally, I'd be fine with returning to the previous mechanic where 1 markerlight removes 1 point of cover save. That way I need substantially more lights to remove cover from a ruin et al. But you're swimming in an ocean of self-delusion if you think markerlights will lose that ability.

I don't complain about ATSKNF, or Reanimation Protocols (or not having a freakin' psychic phase or any psychic defense!) so stop complaining about my army's chief mechanic.

My Wishlist:
Stealth Suits get a large break in points

FW Shas'ui + ML/TL goes down in points

Pulse Carbines fire their profile + Photon Grenade-ish shot

Pathfinder teams can take Marksmen (bs3, precision), or Sharpshooters (bs4, precision) on a per-model basis

Rail Weapons become Ordinance

Railhead goes a little down in points

MarkerLights:
-Scour becomes -1 cover per Marker expended
-Add:
--One *model* gets +1 Precision per ML expended
--Spend one ML on both the primary target and secondary, one model gets Target Lock, and shoots at the secondary target

Signature Systems become 1 per model, even for Commander

Crisis Suits - Buying a second weapon of the same type is +5points on top of cost

Missile sides - drop the ROF

Riptide - Walker

Alternately for Broadsides/riptides:
Become t5 3+ and t6 3+ respectively.

 The Shrike wrote:
I don't complain about ATSKNF, or Reanimation Protocols (or not having a freakin' psychic phase or any psychic defense!) so stop complaining about my army's chief mechanic.

Right. How dare he complain about something. I mean all mechanics are equal in power aren't they? So how could someone possibly have the audacity to think they are allowed to complain about markerlights?

I mean I don't complain about Apple employees in factories in China having steady jobs, how dare they complain about my freedom?

/sarcasm

Point being you can't discredit someone's opinion because you don't agree with it.

Do people complain about orders? No, ebenthough they are far superior in every way to markerlights (and IG also have psykers).

Meh. I don't think that GW will change anything but copy-paste the 6th codex so that they can get their money fast and easy.

The only three things that might happen are:
- Riptide nerfed slightly, probably through the Nova Reactor special rule (big nerf to movement/invu boost).
- The fliers become cheaper (gotta' sell those models).
- Decurion-style formation system based on FW cadres.

SGTPozy wrote:
Do people complain about orders? No, ebenthough they are far superior in every way to markerlights (and IG also have psykers).

Dude I'm not arguing with you. You're way too stubborn (which is admirable in a way) for me to convince you either way. I don't agree with your opinion and that's okay.

Regardless I'm simply saying that he is entitled to his opinion- and if he wants to complain about something he has every right to without fear of being ganged up on and lambasted.

Just like you have the right to complain about Imperium armies, he has the right to complain about markerlights.

 Ignatius wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Do people complain about orders? No, ebenthough they are far superior in every way to markerlights (and IG also have psykers).

Dude I'm not arguing with you. You're way too stubborn (which is admirable in a way) for me to convince you either way. I don't agree with your opinion and that's okay.

Regardless I'm simply saying that he is entitled to his opinion- and if he wants to complain about something he has every right to without fear of being ganged up on and lambasted.

Just like you have the right to complain about Imperium armies, he has the right to complain about markerlights.

Fair enough. It's always tough to try to communicate tone through text. My point wasn't to grill the guy. I just don't understand the point of questioning the existence of markerlights in the Tau army. They're central to the style of the army and always have been. I referenced those other special rules because they ARE as powerful as ignoring cover and come base without paying for models that actually have to exercise the rule. I would never go into an SM codex thread and say, "Man I wish those guys would lose ATSKNF" or the Newcron tactics thread and say, "This RP stuff is BS! Army-wiode FNP! And the most popular formation has 4+ FNP?!" I wouldn't do that because there isn't any point. I move right to "how do I fight it; and how do I mitigate it?"

I see too many similar lists put forth changing core mechanics, specifically targeting a single Unit, or promoting changes which make no sense to the Codex as an over-all whole. Many such lists make me wonder if their authors are targeting a single Unit, or combination of war-gear/tactics, that they personally do not like going up against. This is always more telling when it comes to the Tau, who really just need a point tweaking to balance them more against other armies then some core-internal changes.

The Tau's modular nature, great internal symmetry with each other and flexibility in tactical decisions is what drew me to them in the first place. The only way the Codex could be made better is if the Authors forced us to make more of those tactical decisions when it comes to list building, forcing us to take moments of consideration when putting together a Units load-out. "Do I want to take the anti-tank load out, or should we be focusing anti-infantry with this Broadside team..." is a question we should be seriously asking instead of wondering why we are being given an obvious choice.

That is why I honestly believe the Tau need only the following changes to be a better Army over-all:
1) Re-evaluate the point cost of everything, this is more to balance against external armies
2) Add a Rule to the Rail weapons to cement their anti-vehicle nature, others have suggested Lance which does seem an obvious fit

There are still a great deal many good ideas of others that should be considered for a new Codex: Lord of War slots, additional Models to be added, and maybe a few number changes here that do not alter core mechanics but round out the models a little better. I have not included them, though I will underline the 'swap the Accelerator and Cannon' idea from Grimskul as it is brilliant, because others have already mentioned them or they are guaranteed changes in any case. Expect the usual additions to be added to the Supplement and Codex when it is released, though there is the possibility we will not get a new Codex till 8th Edition.

For example:
I predict a new Formation... not really a compelling predictoin with how 7th is structured

LordBlades wrote:

DaPino wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

I love how everyone whines so much about marker lights. Any competent player can easily eliminate all tau marker lights in 1-2 turns. Pathfinders and drones die very easily. And it is not like using marker lights is a free upgrade tau get. You have to pay for entire squads (that die easily) to be able to have marker lights.

Except it's not as easy as you make it out to be. The range on markerlights is larger than most standard guns and unlike Tau it's not easy to get ignores cover on every weapon imaginable in the codex.

The ignores cover part should be removed from marker lights. It's just a gakky rule, how in gods name does shining a laserpointer at my units suddenly remove their cover? It provides targettig data, which should give other Tau an easier aim at their targets, not make them able to bend bullets around corners.

Give them guaranteed precision shots on hit when spending 2 or more markerlights to increase BS but for god's sake gove me my cover.

If Ignore Cover goes away from Markerlights, the Perfect Timing should go as well.

Well.... no

Perfect timing is a divination power that lets you predict when an enemy will get out of cover (for instance to shoot).
Markerlights are not that. They are tools that provide additional targeting information by shining them at an enemy.

Something that I'd even rather have (even though it's possibly even stronger) is that marker lights allowed for other Tau units to be able to shoot without line of sight because it makes more sense for them to do so. They could provide enemy locations to enemies not in their line of sight by sending them information to their optics devices. What they cannot do however, is prevent the large building my models are sitting in from being there.