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I like the Taurox and Wyvern.

I don't know if the Taurox would have changed much even *if* GW uppers had given reasonable time to come up with kits, it just seems their style to turn out a few good models and then one atrocious one to keep us on our toes.

 Peregrine wrote:

SW flyers were a joke, the new IG stuff ranged from mediocre to "how the did that get approved", and even the new admech stuff is kind of underwhelming for an army that people have been anticipating for decades. They've had some decent infantry models to get excited about but overall quality has been inconsistent IMO. It really feels like they aren't spending enough time refining their designs and only releasing the best stuff.

You could say that about any number of models and ranges through the years, though - and find more than enough solid evidence to back it up as well!

I was under the impression we were talking about the rules more than the models. I don't think GW have really accelerated model releases, have they? I have a White Dwarf from 2006 here (I have older ones but this is the first one that came to hand) and there were 4 kits for 40k, 2 kits for Fantasy and 4 kits for LOTR. It was a big month, but there were still 5 preorders for the next month as well (though 1 of them might have been a reboxing, I'm not sure). This was around the 4th edition Tau release and when the WHFB plastic Giant came out.

I thought it was more the fact they were pumping out codices at a high rate and the fact that releases have shifted from 40k/Fantasy/LOTR/specialist games to almost entirely 40k with the odd WHFB (more WHFB now that The End Times are here).

EDIT: Overall it seems like the shift to plastic has actually REDUCED the release rate of models. I just flicked through a White Dwarf from 1999 and there were 15 model releases that month (18 if you count special weapons for the same units in different blisters as unique releases) but only 4 of them were plastics, the rest were metal.

I think it just FEELS like they are releasing faster because it increasingly feels like they are running out of good ideas, lol. Also because they don't release info on upcoming models anymore, the addicts spend more time staring at what comes out each week. Back in the 2006 White Dwarf they had previews of models that were still 4 months away from being released.

I just strongly dislike how they're releasing rules. The current mix of codex/supplement/mini codex/a single unit masquerading as a codex/digital rules/rules in boxes is frustrating and expensive.

The general upward trend of prices also puts a cap on the enthusiasm for new releases or updated factions. Yeah, its great over half of the factions are current edition, but with each update comes a more expensive codex, and random balance tweaks that may invalidate certain armies or units. GW could still learn quite a few things from its competitors.

Its great we're getting new stuff, and though personally I've disliked quite a few of their latest offerings, once again, their execution is lacking.

Plus, the new release schedule of waiting until after the models to release the rule book is ridiculous.

 BrookM wrote:
I like the Taurox

You're definitely in the minority in that. But I think the Taurox being a horrible model is much less interesting than the fact that fairly simple conversions are enough to bring it up to "this is almost a decent design" status. This suggests to me that the GW artists weren't given enough time to accept feedback on the design and refine it. Instead it feels like they came up with a design that might have had some potential and then immediately had to rush it into production to meet the release deadlines.


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 Blacksails wrote:
Plus, the new release schedule of waiting until after the models to release the rule book is ridiculous.

This. It really says a lot about a company's faith in their rules when you're expected to commit to buying the models (BUY NOW LIMITED EDITION!!!!!!) before seeing if they're going to be playable or not.

The more recent models do strike me as not having enough time spent in the design phase. Especially for a large company like GW I expect there to be a bunch of concept sketches and brain storming of new ideas before the sculptor actually makes it, it just doesn't seem to me like that is happening. The models coming out these days seem like the sculptor had an idea, made a model and it went it to production without enough feedback and concept design going in to the process.

Though that has less to do with release rate and more to do with lazy design process.

GW may be releasing models before rules in order to cover themselves in a post Chapterhouse ruling world.

I like the release rate. It keeps the game fresh and the competitive scene and meta moving. GW feels like PP did three years ago, rules aside.

As someone who collects 9 armies (I seldom game so rules aren't my primary concern - but it will affect a purchase to some degree), the only problem it raises for me is the desire to buy, lmao.

New kit? Gotta get it. Dual kit? Gonna have to get two damn it. These past couple of years have been heavy no doubt because literally all 9 of them have had major releases/reboots.

I think it's good. I hated the snail pace of 5th edition. Most people aren't interested in every faction's releases, but more like 1-3 factions. In 5th edition if you had no interest in whatever GW was releasing at that time you had to wait maybe 6 months before anything else came out. With the current schedule there's always something coming around the corner.

I don't mind at all, especially if it attracts new people constantly.
I do wish they had a little bit of a calendar in terms of releases so folks could save up, or build hype. It would also allow for organisation of bigger launch events and parties.

 Da Stormlord wrote:
Dont get me wrong, I love new releases, but do you think gw are pushing it too far?

Thoughts?

For GW?

Desperate last grab is more like it. This company is gak incarnate at this point. As much as I really cut my teeth from 40K in the past, they are at this point in time for me a bad running joke that I really can't take seriously.
They have no choice a this point, They either push all of this out and try to save themselves or the hits keep on hitting.

They aren't letting it on that they are dying the death of the Auto industry/ TSR.

The ridiculous secret squirrel paranoia, the antagonistic relationship with the fans, the stupidity in general, plus that team of flying monkeys they have running the company, makes me just want to throw all of my 20-something years of figures in the bin, and say thanks for the memories.

Even the new armies do not give me a warm and fuzzy that they will even survive enough to play a game after putting them together.

As much as I love the 40K RPG, I hate GW's table top side of it at this point. mismanagement and all.

I think it's great they're generally introducing more models; but there is a problem with the ever-increasing cut and paste attitude which suggests designers aren't being given enough time.

Of the recent 'nids releases, there were several dull models; the Crone lacks that extra level of detail, with almost every element cut and pasted from other models. Likewise the tyrannocyte has the same three panels repeated right across the model - unforgiveable laziness.

Considering the inventiveness of Orks in the past, nearly all the recent releases were a disappointment; a mek we didn't need, pretty boring mek guns (altho the accompanying grots are lovely). I detest the morkanaut, but I know that's subjective. Grukk Face Ripper was mostly cut and pasted from the AOBR boss. Only the meganobz set, with the fantastic big mek and beautiful oiler grot, are any good.

It's not exclusively underwhelming, there are good ideas in there, but the digital design process, and probably a rushed schedule, is maybe stifling creativity.

And if you can't come up with exciting orks, what can ya come up with?

GW struggles to properly support 40K's main armies, I don't think it's in anyone's best interest that they keep releasing these fringe armies. Skitarii and Militarum Tempestus will probably go the way of the squats in the next couple editions. If GW could manage to support every army, sure, pump out as many models as you can, but they've shown that they cannot.

So GW first aren't releasing enough, and now too many minis?

Who cares, buy what you want, don't buy what you don't.


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 Squidmanlolz wrote:
GW struggles to properly support 40K's main armies, I don't think it's in anyone's best interest that they keep releasing these fringe armies. Skitarii and Militarum Tempestus will probably go the way of the squats in the next couple editions. If GW could manage to support every army, sure, pump out as many models as you can, but they've shown that they cannot.

Define main armies. Didn't Nidz just get a lot of dataslates? Plus SM are doing fine in terms of support, considering they're GW's workhorse.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Squidmanlolz wrote:
GW struggles to properly support 40K's main armies, I don't think it's in anyone's best interest that they keep releasing these fringe armies. Skitarii and Militarum Tempestus will probably go the way of the squats in the next couple editions. If GW could manage to support every army, sure, pump out as many models as you can, but they've shown that they cannot.

Define main armies. Didn't Nidz just get a lot of dataslates? Plus SM are doing fine in terms of support, considering they're GW's workhorse.

Look at the SoB, I think they deserve SOMETHING before GW starts throwing new armies out there. As for the new Tyranid units, we got a nerfed Doom of Malantai, a droppod that should have been in the main codex, and a couple all-but-useless models for the sake of new models with no place on the table. SM are doing fine because they're the workhorse, they arguably get more support than any other army.
Go to the GW website and look at the list of armies, there are TWENTY-TWO! Twenty-two armies is way more than a game like 40k should have, an edition ago there were 14, and even then the meta felt muddy and overcrowded. It's full-blown ridiculousness now.

The only problem is that there's too much cool stuff for my wallet to keep up. I can usually swing $100-150 a month or so on purchases (including paints, glue, brushes, etc), and I'm torn between getting something new and awesome (that I may or may not actually play with) or trolling eBay looking for deals on new in box/on sprue models, OOP models, or bits. The rapid string of releases slows me down from actually expanding my armies, which, incidentally, is where I spend the least amount of money purchasing from GW direct.

Damn, now that I think about it, well played GW, well played.

 Peregrine wrote:
SW flyers were a joke, the new IG stuff ranged from mediocre to "how the did that get approved", and even the new admech stuff is kind of underwhelming for an army that people have been anticipating for decades.

Translation:

Subjectivity! Subjectivity! Subjectivity! SUBJECTIVITY!

I personally thought the SW Flyer (the transport one) was fine. Looks like half a... whatever the Forge World one is called. The IG stuff? The plastic Ogryns are better than both the previous metal versions. The Wyvern... what's wrong with that? And the Hydra's fine. The Taurox is stupid, but greatly improved when given wheels and made into a half-track. I'm not sold on the new Storm Troopers - a little too Sci-Fi Empire troops for my liking - but some people like them.

But that's my opinion, and I know that's a word you struggle with Perry - the very notion that people might not see it your way never enters into your mind - but that's the way it is.

 Blacksails wrote:
I just strongly dislike how they're releasing rules. The current mix of codex/supplement/mini codex/a single unit masquerading as a codex/digital rules/rules in boxes is frustrating and expensive.

I agree. It also makes playing the game harder (not that I play 7th, the link in my sig explaining why). Too many sources for too many rules, and that's before we even get into the notion that the people writing the rules only have a casual relationship with how their game functions.

 Blacksails wrote:
The general upward trend of prices also puts a cap on the enthusiasm for new releases or updated factions. Yeah, its great over half of the factions are current edition, but with each update comes a more expensive codex, and random balance tweaks that may invalidate certain armies or units. GW could still learn quite a few things from its competitors.

They never will. They don't see themselves as having competitors. I mean, it's the Games Workshop Hobby, right? Only Games Workshop makes Games Workshop products, so people won't be able to get things for the Games Workshop Hobby other than from Games Workshop themselves.

Imagine if Apple convinced themselves that they didn't make computers, laptops, tablets and smartphones and that all their products were a completely different type of product that had only a superficial resemblance to the tablets and phones made by Sony/Samgung/Microsoft/etc.. That's basically the situation here.

But you know all this...

 Blacksails wrote:
Plus, the new release schedule of waiting until after the models to release the rule book is ridiculous.

That comes back to the (utterly needless) secrecy thing. If the Skitarii book was out this week we'd see the spider-walker and whatever else is coming before they were up for pre-order. That's a big no-no (for some completely unfathomable and illogical reason), so it comes last.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
GW may be releasing models before rules in order to cover themselves in a post Chapterhouse ruling world.

Yeah there's that too. Hasn't considered that.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Considering the inventiveness of Orks in the past, nearly all the recent releases were a disappointment; a mek we didn't need, pretty boring mek guns (altho the accompanying grots are lovely). I detest the morkanaut, but I know that's subjective. Grukk Face Ripper was mostly cut and pasted from the AOBR boss. Only the meganobz set, with the fantastic big mek and beautiful oiler grot, are any good.

You forgot the Flash Gitz. They're fanatstic!

But interesting point about the Mek we didn't need. I first thought "Ah! But he's plastic!", but then remembered that there's already a plastic one in the Loota kit. I get them changing the Shokk Attack Gun and the Painboy to plastic, but you're right, the Mek is an anomaly there, especially given that there is, to this day, no readily available plastic Warboss.

How much did it cost to get ALL the rules and codex books for 4th ed.
How much does it cost to get ALL the rules , codex books and DLC for 7th ed.

From a player perspective the barrier to entry has increased quite a bit.
The Force Organization Chart was supposed to be a simple way for new players to build a army and have fun at several levels of game.
Look what has happened to this concept to shoe horn all the stuff that should have been kept in an Epic scale game.


Plastic kits , GW can release one a day for all I care.
However, rules are supposed to have more function that to support the last minatutre release.
GW plc are going through 'interesting times' and I am watching to see what happens...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

You forgot the Flash Gitz. They're fanatstic!

But interesting point about the Mek we didn't need. I first thought "Ah! But he's plastic!", but then remembered that there's already a plastic one in the Loota kit. I get them changing the Shokk Attack Gun and the Painboy to plastic, but you're right, the Mek is an anomaly there, especially given that there is, to this day, no readily available plastic Warboss.

The painboy is a gimmicky sculpt, more than one in the army and they look stupid. Personally I hate the new, slim sculpted face - and on the Flash Gitz too, altho the models themselves, while not to my taste, are indeed great, partly because there's so much possibility for overlap with the Nobz.

You're right though, the Flash Gitz were the one thing that stopped the Orks release being an outright disappointment. But the contrast between the creativity of Forgeworld Orks, and those from GW, is still striking, the forgeworld walkers, figures, and guns have way more character.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I don't think there's a problem with the rate of releases from GW, the problem is that they only have 2 games. If they had the same rate of releases but still were supporting specialist games it'd be fine.

They have basically only one game. The other is served sporadically.
The high frequency of releases makes it had to keep up the rules and armies, and it's not possible to buy everything one likes.
The secrecy of the releases due is not really a problem. It just prevents you from planning ahead.

Lanrak wrote:
I just get the feeling GW plc are getting desperate.
They have no idea who their customers are, (no proper market research.)
They just throw out as much stuff as they can and hope some one will buy it.

IF they were JUST selling to collectors , then no one would care.
But some of GW plcs customers pay a small fortune for rules and minatures to play a game with.
All the rushed releases do is risk completely messing up the little bit of functionality the game rules may have left.

I think gamer's make up far more of GW potential customer base than GW think.
(The impressive growth in games companies during GW fiscal decline seems to back this up.)

This would make sense...

If these "rushed releases" didn't have copyright notations of 2014 labeled on them.
The Mechanicus stuff is all © Games Workshop 2014.

 Squidmanlolz wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Squidmanlolz wrote:
GW struggles to properly support 40K's main armies, I don't think it's in anyone's best interest that they keep releasing these fringe armies. Skitarii and Militarum Tempestus will probably go the way of the squats in the next couple editions. If GW could manage to support every army, sure, pump out as many models as you can, but they've shown that they cannot.

Define main armies. Didn't Nidz just get a lot of dataslates? Plus SM are doing fine in terms of support, considering they're GW's workhorse.

Look at the SoB, I think they deserve SOMETHING before GW starts throwing new armies out there. As for the new Tyranid units, we got a nerfed Doom of Malantai, a droppod that should have been in the main codex, and a couple all-but-useless models for the sake of new models with no place on the table. SM are doing fine because they're the workhorse, they arguably get more support than any other army.
Go to the GW website and look at the list of armies, there are TWENTY-TWO! Twenty-two armies is way more than a game like 40k should have, an edition ago there were 14, and even then the meta felt muddy and overcrowded. It's full-blown ridiculousness now.

I actually much prefer having so many factions and I hope they release more, having said that, I never really cared about the rules and balance so stuff like that is the lest of my concerns.

You have to remember before they were releasing alternately between Fantasy, Lord of The Rings and 40K
LOTR will probably see no more releases and it seems that fantasy will be scaled back a lot, so they concentrate all their efforts on 40K.

It is not the amount of releases that are the problem it is the prices (to me) that kill any interest of buying any of the new stuff.

As many have said, I don't mind the new releases, keeps people buying new things. More money for them is good for the company. I am concerned about the bloat though, too many rules that are needlessly complicated. I wish the game wasn't mired in contradictions and 'if's.

I wish when I looked at my codices I could wonder what a rule does, and get a simple answer without wondering how it meshes with 2 or more other rules and conditions (exacerbated by codices from different editions than the others and the BRB).

Well considering from what I heard that Eldar are coming (when they already have a great dex and models), and I'm sitting here waiting for Sisters of Battle after their initial rumors...yeah I'm wanting them to speed things along. Cause as far as AdMech goes, I like the infantry and will probably horse trade for the Rangers at least. And if they do squat the army? I have a shiny Stormtrooper IG counts as. *shrug*

As far as the models go, some of the End Times stuff stunk. (minus the skaven stuff) but 40k has rocked. I loved the Wolf Sled, that Logan got and while their flyer wasn't that interesting, (nor was the Stormtalon for that matter) the current aircraft out there has kicked hind end in terms of looks.

Taurox is cool too in it's upgunned MT version. The basic one is just a tracked jeep/hummer knock off.

 GearheadXII wrote:
As many have said, I don't mind the new releases, keeps people buying new things. More money for them is good for the company.

Haven't you read about the financial reports...?

I think it's fine but would like them to also release some FAQs to clarify some of the more vague rules in the rulebook. Maybe get what they already have finished in its entirety before concentrating on new stuff.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If these "rushed releases" didn't have copyright notations of 2014 labeled on them.
The Mechanicus stuff is all © Games Workshop 2014.

The new Harlequin character and Troupe kits I got were marked as 2013.

The new releases appear to be catering to veterans.
Or, GW Management are wondering why huge stacks of new model designs are sitting around the studios, and not on store shelves. They'd arrange for a release window, and get a range thrown together.
That would explain why the rules are shoddy, but the majority of the models are pretty good.

Rules release rate isn't the problem it was probably faster when they shifted to 3rd Ed 40k or 6th Ed fantasy it's rules price. When I started a supplement codex was £4 not £30 equally I ended up with well over half the codices for the edition not none. Seeing the tournament army which weighed less than its rulebooks was the true death knell for me however.