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I would prefer it if my opponent uses the latest rules, but I wouldn't expect them to be waiting at the store at midnight to pick it up.

For me, it's more about consistency between opponents. If Player A uses oldcrons and Player B uses newcrons, then the same thing happens with 4 other factions you're significantly increasing the number of rules to remember. Part of this game is understanding / knowing your opponent's army's capabilities, and this just brings up too many "Wait, I thought you could / couldn't do XYZ?!"

There is probably some aspect of being a WAAC player. I think people would take umbrage if all GK players said "nope, we want to use our 5th ed codex since it rocked." If wave serpent spam gets toned down, would you still be ok playing against the old rules?

It depends on your group and the overall consensus of it. They may go for it but even among friends, it could set a precedent. For example, The next month after, someone downloads a copy pf Slaves to Darkness and decides they want to use the rules from it to build a chaos army and say "But Bob is using an out of date codex so why cant I?" The week after that someone else goes o e-bay and buys the old guard codex that used traits (cant remember which edition that was) and says "But Bob and Billy are using out of date codexes" Meanwhile Sally s thinking to herself "Why are those two so special? I wanted everyone to stay current but got outvoted and will look bad if I go against my vote and use an out of date tau codex but will be at a huge disadvantage in games if I dont".

It is up to you and your group. Personally, I would suggest staying "current" out of courtesy.

I would say do what your friends allow. If they let you use the old book then use it, enjoy the game how you want. But if you try and do this in a tourney or against a random player ymmv

 EVIL INC wrote:
It depends on your group and the overall consensus of it. They may go for it but even among friends, it could set a precedent. For example, The next month after, someone downloads a copy pf Slaves to Darkness and decides they want to use the rules from it to build a chaos army and say "But Bob is using an out of date codex so why cant I?" The week after that someone else goes o e-bay and buys the old guard codex that used traits (cant remember which edition that was) and says "But Bob and Billy are using out of date codexes" Meanwhile Sally s thinking to herself "Why are those two so special? I wanted everyone to stay current but got outvoted and will look bad if I go against my vote and use an out of date tau codex but will be at a huge disadvantage in games if I dont".

So long as the group is happy to play that way, none of this is a problem.

Although the older you go, the more you're going to have to tweak the rules to fit the current edition. And anything prior to 3rd ed really isn't going to work without a lot of modification... although that still doesn't rule it out. People have been updating D&D books from previous editions to use them with later rulesets for as long as there have been multiple editions of D&D.

Even GW like to say that the rules are just the starting point. What players do with them is up to them. The online community has just grown used to the idea that the current rules are required because so many of us play pickup games or tournaments. For those playing with regular groups of like-minded opponents, there is absolutely no reason to not use whatever rules the group is willing to adopt.

 GearheadXII wrote:
Yeah, I'll be talking with my group about it for sure; it is their opinion that matters after all. I was just curious as to how most approach this.

You might want to wait until the new codex drops before you have that conversation.

What if the new codex is better? Would you be willing to say "Oh well, nevermind. I was just kidding. I'll use the new dex." ? What if they held you to the old dex? If you changed your mind because the new rules were better, you would look like a shameless WAAC dude.

Really, only in a friendly beer and pretzel game, where I also had the option to basically use some outdated rules or models or whatever, would I allow this. In a league or tournament or even just a competitive pick-up game, there's no way.

It is not unreasonable to expect people to use current rules. We all spent a lot of money on models and rules. Why should you get a pass on updating just because either you don't want to purchase additional models or new rules (especially if the new dex nerfs or balances some mainstay eldar units)?

And again, I am not trying to be mean, but be honest, if the new rules turned out to be better, you would use them, right? Sounds like you're just worried about getting nerfed or balanced. It happens man. Just bite the bullet.

Don't be that guy. Buy the new rules just like everyone else does.

LemanRuse wrote:
Why should you get a pass on updating just because either you don't want to purchase additional models or new rules (

How about because he doesn't want to buy additional rules or models?


Seems like a reasonable reason to me.

 insaniak wrote:

LemanRuse wrote:
Why should you get a pass on updating just because either you don't want to purchase additional models or new rules (

How about because he doesn't want to buy additional rules or models?


Seems like a reasonable reason to me.

Yeah, it is reasonable to use older editions and what not in a friendly setting. If his club is cool with it, then it sounds like a laid back club, which is cool with me.

I wish there were such a club in my area. Hell, I would settle for any club in my area.

If you want to stay in the past like some dinosaur that's your choice. Nobody can force you to update, but just the same you can't expect people to play vs your outdated codex either.

I'd say play what you like and what people around you are comfortable with. However, I'd advocate for progressing when able though. I agree that you shouldn't reward GW if they make a codex that you don't like (Art, story, rules etc.) but you're really set up to move forward with the new rules/game style regardless.
In my setting, I wouldn't force my brother or friends to stop playing an army because they are using the old dex but I play in a more relaxed attitude where we are not counting all the points and we do use proxies.
In a tournament setting or a club setting that may change. I would want my opponent to be playing with the most up to date rules possibles and things can change major dynamics between just FAQ let alone an entire codex restructure.

Tl;DR: Play whatever you and your friends want. Realize that GW is progressive and you will be expected to follow up with two options: Upgrade the codex or switch army.

I'd buy the new codex for the neato pictures... that's normally why I buy new codex books.

Something happened this afternoon that made me think of this thread -- there were two friends over at my place playing Eldar v Eldar. It would be pretty strange if one were 6e and one were 7e! Or, if you get a 4-player table (2v2) with, say, 7e Eldar, 6e Eldar vs 7e Ork, 6e Ork. It would be REALLY confusing!

(Imagine a Space Marine table with multiple editions.....)

I ended up talking to one of the players about it. He said I should upgrade and when I asked him if he had the money to fork on a new codex next week it then became "whatever as long as we play and have fun". I am going to upgrade when I can, for sure, it's just we don't all have money to just shell out 60$ for nothing. I just bought the last codex less than 6 months ago and wouldn't expect any of the players to just pay or not play.

As I said before, I don't play 40K to win, I use fluffy lists and when I do include something like WS I don't use their abilities every round, I don't play to win, I play to have fun... and I lose a lot.

For me it comes down to cost really. I don't have money to just throw around, saving for a wedding and such, and I am not going to stop playing the game I've been enjoying and spent a lot of my money on just because a new codex comes out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
If you want to stay in the past like some dinosaur that's your choice. Nobody can force you to update, but just the same you can't expect people to play vs your outdated codex either.

I can be a dinosaur if I want! RAWR!

Personally, I would always want the most updated rules, and would expect most people to play with them as well (Like, cheese being toned down the make the game more fun). However, it doesn't really matter to me. If my friend wanted to use the 4th edition Ork codex, fine by me, because it means that he'd be playing 40k again. =P

 GearheadXII wrote:
I ended up talking to one of the players about it. He said I should upgrade and when I asked him if he had the money to fork on a new codex next week it then became "whatever as long as we play and have fun". I am going to upgrade when I can, for sure, it's just we don't all have money to just shell out 60$ for nothing. I just bought the last codex less than 6 months ago and wouldn't expect any of the players to just pay or not play.

As I said before, I don't play 40K to win, I use fluffy lists and when I do include something like WS I don't use their abilities every round, I don't play to win, I play to have fun... and I lose a lot.

For me it comes down to cost really. I don't have money to just throw around, saving for a wedding and such, and I am not going to stop playing the game I've been enjoying and spent a lot of my money on just because a new codex comes out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
If you want to stay in the past like some dinosaur that's your choice. Nobody can force you to update, but just the same you can't expect people to play vs your outdated codex either.

I can be a dinosaur if I want! RAWR!

Sounds cool. Completely reasonable, and I'd totally understand.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Personally, I would always want the most updated rules, and would expect most people to play with them as well (Like, cheese being toned down the make the game more fun).

That would make sense of each new codex was actually better balanced, rather than just shifting the imbalance around...

The solution is simple: Use the old rules, except incorporate all of the nerfs of the new book, but none of the buffs.

That way, you are decidedly not That Guy.

 JimOnMars wrote:
The solution is simple: Use the old rules, except incorporate all of the nerfs of the new book, but none of the buffs.

That way, you are decidedly not That Guy.

Or, declare that you will play only unbound, because you love terminators so much that you don't want to use any other unit.

 Talys wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
The solution is simple: Use the old rules, except incorporate all of the nerfs of the new book, but none of the buffs.

That way, you are decidedly not That Guy.

Or, declare that you will play only unbound, because you love terminators so much that you don't want to use any other unit.

Works for me.

conversation usually goes as follows, "So I've got an unbound list today,"

Other Guy, " Unbound? Really?"

"Yeah, it's got 20 tactical terminators and a bunch of decked out Vanguard Veterans - 1st company and all that,"

OG, look of concern on face vanished instantly, "Oh, alright then," proceeds to take out 5 Wave Serpents and 3 Wraithknights.

My take:

Use the latest codex.

Steelmage99 wrote:
My take:

Use the latest codex.

Response: No.


Some sort of reasoning might elicit a different response. Hard to tell, really.

There was a time when I would have advocated using the newest codex when ever possible. But back then the books were 25 dollars, had tons of modeling tips, pretty epic art work, and fresh fluff. The book was actually worth waiting in line for a midnight release.

Now your paying 50 dollars for rehashed fluff, no artwork, and just as horrid editing and rules balance. The product is just not worth what your paying for it anymore. Especially when the old codex works perfectly in the new rule set. Its not like your trying to bring back the Tau 4th edition book where it has specific rules for Target Priority. (depending on when you started playing you may not even know what that is. LOL)

We as gamers have to remember that this is our game, not GWs. If your playing with the same group of friends, talk about your game, your hobby, what you want to get out of it. You may find that your friends feel the same way you do.

Now I'll admit that going into a random FLGS and trying to get a pick up game using old rules might be difficult, probably after the first month of release. But I think most people will be reasonable about it for that first month. Paydays and bills and what not.

 insaniak wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Personally, I would always want the most updated rules, and would expect most people to play with them as well (Like, cheese being toned down the make the game more fun).

That would make sense of each new codex was actually better balanced, rather than just shifting the imbalance around...

Well, yeah, that can become an issue, but then that's unavoidable.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Well, yeah, that can become an issue, but then that's unavoidable.

In which case the argument that you have to use the newest codex because it 'fixes' balance issues with the previous one is largely irrelevant... If all you're doing is swapping one imbalance for another, what difference does it really make which you use? Particularly if you're using an army that doesn't capitalise on that imbalance anyway...

 Jayden63 wrote:
There was a time when I would have advocated using the newest codex when ever possible. But back then the books were 25 dollars, had tons of modeling tips, pretty epic art work, and fresh fluff. The book was actually worth waiting in line for a midnight release.

Now your paying 50 dollars for rehashed fluff, no artwork, and just as horrid editing and rules balance. The product is just not worth what your paying for it anymore. Especially when the old codex works perfectly in the new rule set. Its not like your trying to bring back the Tau 4th edition book where it has specific rules for Target Priority. (depending on when you started playing you may not even know what that is. LOL)

We as gamers have to remember that this is our game, not GWs. If your playing with the same group of friends, talk about your game, your hobby, what you want to get out of it. You may find that your friends feel the same way you do.

Now I'll admit that going into a random FLGS and trying to get a pick up game using old rules might be difficult, probably after the first month of release. But I think most people will be reasonable about it for that first month. Paydays and bills and what not.

Exactly my thoughts. We are all using 6th edition and I too remember when codex we're actually useful and fun to read and not hardcover. I wouldn't have hesitated years ago to buy a new codex, just don't feel the need anymore with the way they have been working on the game.