Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The vindicare can do D3 wounds to a target.
One of the special ammunition rules its got.
Also a much easier model to hide out of LOS and zone in on a target.

Vindicare wounds on a 4+, Onager on a 2+. Vindicare wounds don't carry to the squad, Onager does. If you're referring to anti-vehicle, you've got something. But against infantry, Onager wins.

I dunno, I just don't see what everyone else is seeing with the Onagar (I'm probably spelling this wrong).

I think having as many Ballistariis as I possibly can, as separate units, would be more competitive.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm just trying to figure out the best options Skits have to offer.... just don't think the Onagar is one of them.

 UnrealTempest wrote:
I dunno, I just don't see what everyone else is seeing with the Onagar (I'm probably spelling this wrong).

I think having as many Ballistariis as I possibly can, as separate units, would be more competitive.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm just trying to figure out the best options Skits have to offer.... just don't think the Onagar is one of them.

The Ballistariis are ok IMO, but they are 75 pts for a twin linked lascannon they are a bit expensive for how fragile they are. The Ballistarii are faster for sure, but for 45 pts more I add an extra hull point, and extra armor on front and side, st 9 ap2 to a str 10 ap1 small blast, 2 heavy stubbers, and the ability to ignore dangerous terrain as well as a 6+ invul, but on a slower frame. All in all I like both of them and they have their place.

I'll be running 4 spiders - 3 with neutron lasers and 1 with with the icuras array - all seperate units. The 4++ is fine, but I think i'd like to spread the threat out more.
All of them with the extra stubber - because what's not to like about a 5pt cognis stubber.
those 4 for my heavy slot will be 470 pts.

Also, are the rhinos fast in a blood angels codex? I haven't looked at that codex for a long time. I agree on them being fairly awesome for a 5 man of vanguard with 2 arc rifles.

470 pts is a bunch for only 4 - S10 small blasts :/ IMO.

On another note,
Outflanking a large squad of the Ballistarii wouldn't be such a bad idea (the formation, I can't remember the name).
Smack up some side armor, or push a squad off an objective.
They have acute senses so they'll be able to re-roll what side the come onto the table.... something that is pretty handy.

I'm so used to playing with my MSU lictorshame lists that I have such a hard building lists to counter that AND knights.... because I hate knights.

 UnrealTempest wrote:
470 pts is a bunch for only 4 - S10 small blasts :/ IMO.

On another note,
Outflanking a large squad of the Ballistarii wouldn't be such a bad idea (the formation, I can't remember the name).
Smack up some side armor, or push a squad off an objective.
They have acute senses so they'll be able to re-roll what side the come onto the table.... something that is pretty handy.

I'm so used to playing with my MSU lictorshame lists that I have such a hard building lists to counter that AND knights.... because I hate knights.

The Ironstrider Cavaliers formation. I like it and was looking at it when I first got the book. They also reroll failed wound rolls when firing at a chosen IC and unit while being able to screen the unit with the Dragoons.
The issue I ran into with it was the cost of the actual models.

You mean like physical money?
Yeah, gotta pay to play hahaha.
But it's fun.
I'm building my formation right now. Should have a batrep up in the next week or so with my GK's and Skit allies

Don't forget the neutron laser is concussive, allowing them to shoot, say, a Wraithknight or an Imperial Knight, then you can charge it and be basically guaranteed to strike first.

3 Onagers with 3 Neutron Lasers and the Cognis Fabricator claw thingies could eat up a Wraithknight if it is dumb enough to get charged.

EDIT:
Also, I would like to say 2 things:

Armored battlegroup with Skitarii is hilarious.

I am building a Killclade because I think the models are cool. Any advice? So far I have found the infiltrators to be incredibly useful, while the Ruststalkers are mostly a big smokescreen that attracts so much firepower Turn 1 that it's not even funny, and if they're not dead, they hit like a truck.

Not that I have a big force yet (only a few boxes of Vanguard / Rangers) but I kind of feel like just making the army a shooty one. Turn 1 at BS 7, Turn 2 at BS 6, Turn 3 at BS5 sounds very nice indeed.

Of course that means no Ruststalkers or Infiltrators but I don't think that is a big deal.

I find infiltrators to be awesome. Placing them near a long range squad like say Devastators or Lootas can be crippling sometmes.

Other than that I say go for it.

I'll definitely be combining MSU skits with some GKs.
Even the Dragoons are good combat support -- not overly amazing, but they can get the job done.
The Bals are just so fast for autocannon support too for the pts cost.
Easy to claim those objectives.
Problem is they are paper thin, so a voidshield will definitely have to be included.

I think what I appreciate most about this army is how cleverly everything synergizes with each other. I like both the assault units and shooty units. One thing I have found the assault units MUST have in this army though is long range anti everything support. Specifically when facing down a tau gunline, or even just say a firebase cadre, you need to in some way incude a unit or 2 to at least widdle down the broadsides so your assault units dont get doubled-out-annihilated on the way in from shooting and overwatch. This is one area where I can see las-ballistas coming into play as they can redeploy quickly to threaten such units with armor penning double out shots.

Also, suprisingly this is a role the jezzails on dragoons fill nicely, as has been pointed out, a 6 to wound on a jezzail instakills a non cover save broadside.

Ironically, a ton of people have been talking about the new eldar changes, like the now GMC wraithknight, which oddly enough, most of the skitarii army counters. What with weapons that cause wounds regardless of toughnesss and all, so much for the GMC rule.

I also have a deep dislike for knights, and once again, skitarii give knights enormous issues. Even in CC, as long as you have some nearby infiltrators, knights may not even be able to strike back against your dragoons or ruststalkers. Pretty neat!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also, really REALLY don't know what to choose on vanguard. I like their special weapon choices, but they are also quite effective just stock. X3 Scouting plasma cavaliers in my opponents face turn 1 sounds so fun, but 90 points is a large tax since that literally doubles the cost of the squad.

 gameandwatch wrote:
I also, really REALLY don't know what to choose on vanguard. I like their special weapon choices, but they are also quite effective just stock. X3 Scouting plasma cavaliers in my opponents face turn 1 sounds so fun, but 90 points is a large tax since that literally doubles the cost of the squad.

Almost literally. Goes from 100 points to 190.

Plasma is very expensive but I think it has limited use in an army. Like maybe in a squad or two at the absolute most. Why not have 3 arc rifles for 45 points in most of your Vanguard Squads? That'll do a number on pretty much any vehicle (including an Imperial Knight).

Super Newb wrote:

 gameandwatch wrote:
I also, really REALLY don't know what to choose on vanguard. I like their special weapon choices, but they are also quite effective just stock. X3 Scouting plasma cavaliers in my opponents face turn 1 sounds so fun, but 90 points is a large tax since that literally doubles the cost of the squad.

Almost literally. Goes from 100 points to 190.

Plasma is very expensive but I think it has limited use in an army. Like maybe in a squad or two at the absolute most. Why not have 3 arc rifles for 45 points in most of your Vanguard Squads? That'll do a number on pretty much any vehicle (including an Imperial Knight).

Sorry, forgot about the sergeant tax, was just thinking of the core cost of 9 points.

Oh Im definitely thinking of just going double or tripple arc rifle, the ap2 18" 9 shots is nice, especially when considering the BS increase doctrines, but 30 points per gun... is just SO expensive. I also look at their delivery and survivability and weep, as Im a purest (not a huge allies fan) and they have no real delivery system, and arent very resilient.

But that is the thing, vanguard stock are incredible non-vehicle killers. I mean the rad rule even bi-passes gargantuan monstrous creature rule, where as when you start giving them special weapons, they lose effectiveness against multiwound models and high toughness models. Its hard to tell what is best, keep them cheap and focused, or give them stuff and multitask.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more i think about it too, the more i feel anti-air onagers is the way to go. Hive tyrants are a huge issue for this army, bypassing multiwound fnp and a danger to literaaly every unit, i dont see how you cant use them that way.

 gameandwatch wrote:
Oh Im definitely thinking of just going double or tripple arc rifle, the ap2 18" 9 shots is nice, especially when considering the BS increase doctrines, but 30 points per gun... is just SO expensive. I also look at their delivery and survivability and weep, as Im a purest (not a huge allies fan) and they have no real delivery system, and arent very resilient.

But that is the thing, vanguard stock are incredible non-vehicle killers. I mean the rad rule even bi-passes gargantuan monstrous creature rule, where as when you start giving them special weapons, they lose effectiveness against multiwound models and high toughness models. Its hard to tell what is best, keep them cheap and focused, or give them stuff and multitask.

Guess it all depends on how the rest of your army is kitted out. And what the meta is. I feel like there will be times where it would be better to take out a vehicle, or where a vehicle is the only target in range of your Vanguard squad. Having 2, or 3 arc rifles in the squad definitely does increase the 10 man squad cost a good amount (30-45%), but it's freaking ranged haywire - seems like the best way in the whole codex to take out vehicles

Finally finished my first squad. What I'm doing is buying a box, and building 2 Vanguard and a Ranger per box with each special weapon. After 3 boxes I'll be able to field a full-special squad. Currently buying to play the following list.

Vanguard x10 (155)
-3x Arc Rifle
-Arc Pistol

Rangers x10 (205)
-Warlord
-3x Arquebus
-Converterfield

Vanguard x10 (200)
-3x Caliver
-Omnsipex

Sicaran Infiltrators (180)
-TG/FB

Sicaran Ruststalkers (160)

Sydonian Dragoon (45)
-Radium Jezzail

Sydonian Dragoon (45)
-Radium Jezzail

Onager Dunecrawler (115)
-Neutron Laser

Total- 1105

I'm just not a fan of putting 10 man strong into a unit.
Thats 155pts with no means of mobility.
Personally, I will always be running a 5man squad of Vanguard with 2 arc rifles and an omnsipex for 95 pts.
I can throw them in a rhino or a razor.

There are just too many points spent on your troops that have no mobility :/

 UnrealTempest wrote:
I'm just not a fan of putting 10 man strong into a unit.
Thats 155pts with no means of mobility.
Personally, I will always be running a 5man squad of Vanguard with 2 arc rifles and an omnsipex for 95 pts.
I can throw them in a rhino or a razor.

There are just too many points spent on your troops that have no mobility :/

I'll most likely stick them in a Rhino. I just need a few BAngels now.

For me, I am thinking they need to either be specialist 5 man squads, or almost naked 10 man squads.

None of the special weapons worth taking really synergize with the units main guns(which are pretty good).

After watching a batrep yesterday from Frontline, I think an Omnispex should go on everything it can, that -1 cover for the entire unit shooting is just too good

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
After watching a batrep yesterday from Frontline, I think an Omnispex should go on everything it can, that -1 cover for the entire unit shooting is just too good

amen. + Onagers are crucial to have too - that skyfire output is sickening! they will go through serpants, hornets, flyrants, crones, talons etc.

Do Skitarii have access to any FW right now? within their CAD I mean?

Just to double-check; there's presently no way of getting allied Chimeras in the same way you can Rhinos, right?

At present there is not a way to get chimeras but I think if you looking for transports I think if you can get drop pods that is the way to go. Av 12 and cheap. With the low cost of skitsrii you don't need to be as mobile, you can fill the board with models. Omnispex is a must, especially in any unit with specials(since you are actually gonna negate a lot of inherent saves) and I would say for the rangers as well since the number of save 4+ units you are going to see keeps on going up.

No love even for the BA Fast Rhinos? The Skitarii are squishy, the Rhinos at least give them some form of protection. Going full on Glass Hammer can't be best way 100%.

 Wilson wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
After watching a batrep yesterday from Frontline, I think an Omnispex should go on everything it can, that -1 cover for the entire unit shooting is just too good

amen. + Onagers are crucial to have too - that skyfire output is sickening! they will go through serpants, hornets, flyrants, crones, talons etc.

Do Skitarii have access to any FW right now? within their CAD I mean?

Dont believe so, no LOW slot and no skitarii approved 30k units as far as I'm aware.

 Wilson wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
After watching a batrep yesterday from Frontline, I think an Omnispex should go on everything it can, that -1 cover for the entire unit shooting is just too good

amen. + Onagers are crucial to have too - that skyfire output is sickening! they will go through serpants, hornets, flyrants, crones, talons etc.

Do Skitarii have access to any FW right now? within their CAD I mean?

not yet, but it's a safe guess that FW's not going to sit back on their mechanium line now that the admech is a 40k army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
For me, I am thinking they need to either be specialist 5 man squads, or almost naked 10 man squads.

None of the special weapons worth taking really synergize with the units main guns(which are pretty good).

actually they're pricy, but the plasma cavaliers synergize nicely with the rad carbines. yeah Rad Carbines are kinda low strength but their "wounds on 6, period" rule means the entire unit can open fire (and the range bands are the same) on just about any infantry target without nesscarily being wasted. this synergizes excellently. contrast this with the ever present "squad Melta" you see in many SM squads. where if you're shooting the melta at a tank, the bolters are proably wasted.

After careful consideration, I have determined the following:

TROOPS:
Vanguard are the best troop:
I know I know, rangers have some pretty cool stuff, but when it comes to general versatility and use, I don't think they hold up as well. First, they are more expensive. Second, none of the special weapons synergize with the unit. The only exception would be the arquebus, but even then it would make more sense to use the extreme range to keep the unit out of danger, which would mean you are only firing a maximum of 3 shots against most targets(since they would be sitting in the way back)

The vanguard instead synergize very well with most special weapons, with arc rifles being the best option. AP2 plasma is nice, but paying tripple the cost of one model is way too high a tax to make it useful. Normally I would say that anti vehicle, mixed in with anti infantry is bad, but considering the arc rifle is also S6, it completes both tasks fairly well. Also OMNISPECS EVERYTIME!

The passive toughness lowering is very situational, but has hilariously helped against both centurions and thunderwolves, allowing my S8 dragoons on the charge to double them out. SILLY!

ELITES:
Unfortunately, neither of these doods are fantastic, this section will more come to taste and personal preference than anything else.

Both unfortunately suffer from the same problem, T3 and cost.

They are both relatively fast, can take on many different types of targets (the ruststalkers more than the infiltrators) but even with a 4+ 6++ 5+++ and 2 wounds, against anything but standard infantry weapons, they will crumble. The rustalkers taken stock are one of the best jacks of all trades I have seen, they are fast, have assault grenades, can wound anything at any toughness, access to AP2, haywire for vehicles, etc. A very well rounded close combat unit that has no real defense for avoiding getting blown off the able aside from speed. Any S6 or higher, high volume of fire weapons, ie scatterlasers, high yield missile pods, autocannons, multilasers, etc will just decimate these guys. How T4 would have dramatically changed their effectveness, and likely justify their 30 point cost. Granted though, if this unit does make it to combat, holy crap can they dish out the pain. Not only can they very reliably kill knights, but they can also engage infantry, heavy infantry, MC and GMC equally. As said, the only problem is getting there...

Infiltrators...now, I LOVE these guys, their design/ look, the fact that they can pack hilarious uzis, and the tesla goad is actually pretty devastating to light infantry. These guys LEVEL hordes and blobs with impunity, with massed machine pistol fire followed by mass S5-6 hits in CC. They do have both stealth and infiltrate to get them into the fight better, and can be an amusing harass unit with the dunstrider rule. And MAN is their passive ability so mean. Shoe in for me, but many I believe will get different mileage out of these guys.

FAST:
THe one and only choice, dragoons... yes they are a bit squishy, but you can take lots of them, are priced like a terminator and are incredible as both ranged and melee platforms. In fact, choosing which platform has been my biggest debacle with this army. Their melee is fantastic, threatens so many targets and is hilarious when paired with both vanguard and infiltrators.

But most have overlooked their ranged output. Ironically, their ranged capability with jezzails plugs a lot of the holes that things like infiltrators and russtalkers face. Things like broadsides, or riptides, or jetbikes with scatter, centurions, even things like wraithknights, and any normal monstrous creature. 6 of these guys skittering around the board sounds like a really fun harass unit that on good rolls will deal devestating damage to multiwound models/units. Think, first turn throw on BS5+, shoot any target(since basically anything is in range with their speed) and laugh when you get one or more 6's throwing 2+ ap2 wounds on targets. having them with jezzails also makes using the serpentias more justified, as not only does it increase the chance of other units in your army charging, but they can lower the potential cover saves used when 6s are rolled with the jezzails.

In fact the only real issue with the jezzail dragoons is the lack of fast attack slots. I would love to have 2 units of both, but the only way this is achievable is with multiple cads or using the sub par formation.

Heavy support:
I really don't like the ballistas, I don't know why, but 55 points for an autocannon platform seems like a lot to me. I won't go too much in depth with them, as I don't exactly understand their place in the army. I would definitely like to hear others experience/ feelings about them!

Dunecrawler: Man, I really REALLY want to use these guys, but I am really not sure on a loadout. The anti-air option is the most expensive and stuck shooting at skimmers and flyers/ FMC, but it handles with devastating effect one of the armies greatest weaknesses which is flyrants. They are also able to do some damage to things like wave serpents, which is never a bad thing. I will likely always have a unit of 1-3 equipped wiht this option. The neutron laser is another story. I really REALLY want to like this weapon, 48" S10 AP1 Concussive, Blast is really fantastic, but is 115 points for a single blast and a S4 stubber really worth it? Im not sure, and have been wracking my brain to figure it out. Surprisingly many have overlooked the TL heavy phosphur blaster, which 3 TL S6 ap3 shots isn't bad, and with the phosphur rule, S6 makes it much easier to wound/ glance, making this rule more effective when used alongside other units. It is an interesting option for only 15 points, though would likely have been a more interesting one if it was 5 points cheaper.

Not sure of the usefulness of the beamer, seems chancy, idk maybe it can be good?

Anyways, this is what my research has found me

Ad much as the rule makes me want to squadron them I feel that the weapons push me in the other direction. Skydire you only really want 1 to 2 and you want to be able to hit multiple targets. Phospher you are taking for its buff, once again only really need one per unit. Neutron is only one I would consider in a squadron. I am thinking I might run them separate, give them one of each(maybe two of the skyfire ones and one phospher)

 gameandwatch wrote:

In fact the only real issue with the jezzail dragoons is the lack of fast attack slots. I would love to have 2 units of both, but the only way this is achievable is with multiple cads or using the sub par formation.

I think that Ironstrider formation is great and by itself compliments lots of other Imperial codices without paying for Skitarii troops. Its special rules are incredible. Just choosing which table edge they arrive, likely on turn one would be great, but adding in the other rules is awesome.

I much prefer the ranger heads, but i feel like there isn't enough respect being given for the humble rad-carbine - on a six to wound you get two automatic wounds and it's assault3! so ten guys put out 30 shots? for 100pts!?

Am i missing something here - or is that epic for the points?