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 Jambles wrote:
For real though, what exactly is Cvv?

Car Verification Values. The little codes on the back of credit cards.

The Machine-Spirit of the thread must have briefly objected to something. It has been repaired.

Super Newb wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
For real though, what exactly is Cvv?

I think it's funny a spam bot posted in a thread about ad mech bots lol

Hahahaha, clearly the robots recognize their own!

 Verviedi wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
For real though, what exactly is Cvv?

Car Verification Values. The little codes on the back of credit cards.

The Machine-Spirit of the thread must have briefly objected to something. It has been repaired.

Ahhh, okay. I don't know how you sell those, but I've seen more egregious scam ads.

 Jambles wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
For real though, what exactly is Cvv?

I think it's funny a spam bot posted in a thread about ad mech bots lol

Hahahaha, clearly the robots recognize their own!

 Verviedi wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
For real though, what exactly is Cvv?

Car Verification Values. The little codes on the back of credit cards.

The Machine-Spirit of the thread must have briefly objected to something. It has been repaired.

Ahhh, okay. I don't know how you sell those, but I've seen more egregious scam ads.

Recieve payment in Bitcoin, email the card number and CVV. Remember when Home Depot and Target got hacked? These scammers are selling the card data from hacks like that.

Back on topic-
The Kataphrons are looking MARVELOUS. I will definitely buy a box or 2, but I'll hold off until we can see what Canticles of the Omnissiah does.
Best loadouts are most likely Torsion Cannon/Arc Claw for breachers and Grav for Destroyers, but that was obvious anyway.

I'm still struggling to see a situation where I'd want to bring either version of Breachers over Destroyers. Yes, 3+ and a CCW, but honestly the amount of shooting the Destroyers put out (especially in the supposed Formation) more than makes up for that imo.

Requizen wrote:
I'm still struggling to see a situation where I'd want to bring either version of Breachers over Destroyers. Yes, 3+ and a CCW, but honestly the amount of shooting the Destroyers put out (especially in the supposed Formation) more than makes up for that imo.

I'm struggling to find a reason for Kastelans even, with Grav Destroyers as an option. I guess the formation requires both, but Destroyers are cheaper and put out more shots.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I'm still struggling to see a situation where I'd want to bring either version of Breachers over Destroyers. Yes, 3+ and a CCW, but honestly the amount of shooting the Destroyers put out (especially in the supposed Formation) more than makes up for that imo.

I'm struggling to find a reason for Kastelans even, with Grav Destroyers as an option. I guess the formation requires both, but Destroyers are cheaper and put out more shots.

Easy - S6 AP3 guns are good against everything. Destroyers and Breachers both fall short against mobs of things with low armor saves. Grav is great - until you have to shoot against Daemons, Guard, or Orks, where you start wounding on 5+ or 6+. Robots are going to mulch down anything with their 6 Phosphor Guns per turn, 9 if they use the Protocol that lets them fire twice as long as they don't move.

They're both good heavy weapons that compliment each other quite nicely. I'm just worried about Electropriests. They'll really have to wow me to fit in.

Requizen wrote:
I'm still struggling to see a situation where I'd want to bring either version of Breachers over Destroyers. Yes, 3+ and a CCW, but honestly the amount of shooting the Destroyers put out (especially in the supposed Formation) more than makes up for that imo.

Holy Requisition Arc-Bomb.

 Verviedi wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I'm still struggling to see a situation where I'd want to bring either version of Breachers over Destroyers. Yes, 3+ and a CCW, but honestly the amount of shooting the Destroyers put out (especially in the supposed Formation) more than makes up for that imo.

Holy Requisition Arc-Bomb.

Yeah, I suppose that's it. A pretty good thing, but then more or less wasted against non-vehicle or vehicle-light armies. Torsion guns are the better generalist guns, but not as good as an anti-armor drop unit.

Where are the rules for these? I've only seen the Robots, or am I being dumb?

Requizen wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I'm still struggling to see a situation where I'd want to bring either version of Breachers over Destroyers. Yes, 3+ and a CCW, but honestly the amount of shooting the Destroyers put out (especially in the supposed Formation) more than makes up for that imo.

I'm struggling to find a reason for Kastelans even, with Grav Destroyers as an option. I guess the formation requires both, but Destroyers are cheaper and put out more shots.

Easy - S6 AP3 guns are good against everything. Destroyers and Breachers both fall short against mobs of things with low armor saves. Grav is great - until you have to shoot against Daemons, Guard, or Orks, where you start wounding on 5+ or 6+. Robots are going to mulch down anything with their 6 Phosphor Guns per turn, 9 if they use the Protocol that lets them fire twice as long as they don't move.

They're both good heavy weapons that compliment each other quite nicely. I'm just worried about Electropriests. They'll really have to wow me to fit in.

Exclusively to the Cult, this is true. However (and I should have mentioned this) I plan to combine Cult and Skitarii - where Vanguard and Eradication Onagers exist.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I'm still struggling to see a situation where I'd want to bring either version of Breachers over Destroyers. Yes, 3+ and a CCW, but honestly the amount of shooting the Destroyers put out (especially in the supposed Formation) more than makes up for that imo.

I'm struggling to find a reason for Kastelans even, with Grav Destroyers as an option. I guess the formation requires both, but Destroyers are cheaper and put out more shots.

Easy - S6 AP3 guns are good against everything. Destroyers and Breachers both fall short against mobs of things with low armor saves. Grav is great - until you have to shoot against Daemons, Guard, or Orks, where you start wounding on 5+ or 6+. Robots are going to mulch down anything with their 6 Phosphor Guns per turn, 9 if they use the Protocol that lets them fire twice as long as they don't move.

They're both good heavy weapons that compliment each other quite nicely. I'm just worried about Electropriests. They'll really have to wow me to fit in.

Exclusively to the Cult, this is true. However (and I should have mentioned this) I plan to combine Cult and Skitarii - where Vanguard and Eradication Onagers exist.

Yeah, once Allies come in it's quite a different game. Depends on if you want all that AP3 shooting - if you don't care too much about it, then yeah you can probably pick other options over it.

Requizen wrote:
Yeah, once Allies come in it's quite a different game. Depends on if you want all that AP3 shooting - if you don't care too much about it, then yeah you can probably pick other options over it.

That's the conundrum. Kataphrons bring AP2 for days, Vanguard and Onagers cover horde and AA, Ruststalkers and Infiltrators for CC (with limited electro-priest information). Kastelans left out to dry.

Where are the rules for the Kataphrones? I have the poster with all the units on it, but I haven't seen any rules

Check the rumors thread

Thank you very much

Decay wrote:
Thank you very much

Oh don't say very much, I didn't provide a link or anything lol.

Weirdly they were only posted in German and French lol but they've all been translated.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Yeah, once Allies come in it's quite a different game. Depends on if you want all that AP3 shooting - if you don't care too much about it, then yeah you can probably pick other options over it.

That's the conundrum. Kataphrons bring AP2 for days, Vanguard and Onagers cover horde and AA, Ruststalkers and Infiltrators for CC (with limited electro-priest information). Kastelans left out to dry.

I mean, not entirely. It's a unit of T7 W3 3+ MCs with S6 AP3 guns. That's really good. Vanguard are good, but they're also fairly squishy. Onagers are awesomely shooty, but still fall into the vehicle trap of possibly getting exploded/immobilized/weapon destroyed in one shot, though the Invuln on them helps.

MCs are a great unit type. Big, tough, and killy. Even if they get charged and traded out their power fists (which they should), they're S6 AP2 punching. And the Formation gives them Ignores Cover on an AP3 gun, which is about as fantastic of a weapon as you can get. So, I think they'll be a perfectly reasonable choice for a unit.

Requizen wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Yeah, once Allies come in it's quite a different game. Depends on if you want all that AP3 shooting - if you don't care too much about it, then yeah you can probably pick other options over it.

That's the conundrum. Kataphrons bring AP2 for days, Vanguard and Onagers cover horde and AA, Ruststalkers and Infiltrators for CC (with limited electro-priest information). Kastelans left out to dry.

I mean, not entirely. It's a unit of T7 W3 3+ MCs with S6 AP3 guns. That's really good. Vanguard are good, but they're also fairly squishy. Onagers are awesomely shooty, but still fall into the vehicle trap of possibly getting exploded/immobilized/weapon destroyed in one shot, though the Invuln on them helps.

MCs are a great unit type. Big, tough, and killy. Even if they get charged and traded out their power fists (which they should), they're S6 AP2 punching. And the Formation gives them Ignores Cover on an AP3 gun, which is about as fantastic of a weapon as you can get. So, I think they'll be a perfectly reasonable choice for a unit.

As part of the formation, sure. But for the equivalent cost of a minimum squad of Kastelans, you get ~30 Vanguard. Five times the MC profile wound count, 90 shots vs 12, with Doctrina Imperatives. Or 3 Eradication Onagers, so 9HP @ AV12 with 4++ dishing out 3x of any shot profile. It's not a bad unit by any stretch - but others do seem to do it better for the cost. They pay a versatility tax.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Grav gets 6 shots at BS4 = 3 hits doing things on 6 = .5 HPs
Arc get 2 shots at BS4 = 1 hit doing things on 2+ = 8.33 HPs (chance to pen as well)

That math is a bit flawed

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Grav gets 6 shots at BS4 = 3 hits doing things on 6 = .5 HPs
Arc get 2 shots at BS4 = 1 hit doing things on 2+ = 8.33 HPs (chance to pen as well)

That math is a bit flawed

Mistype, I imagine. I understood where he was going with it.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Grav gets 6 shots at BS4 = 3 hits doing things on 6 = .5 HPs
Arc get 2 shots at BS4 = 1 hit doing things on 2+ = 8.33 HPs (chance to pen as well)

That math is a bit flawed

lulz, making those tough arguments are we?

8.33 should be .833 - I think everyone realized that already.

Super Newb wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Grav gets 6 shots at BS4 = 3 hits doing things on 6 = .5 HPs
Arc get 2 shots at BS4 = 1 hit doing things on 2+ = 8.33 HPs (chance to pen as well)

That math is a bit flawed

lulz, making those tough arguments are we?

8.33 should be .833 - I think everyone realized that already.

6 shots bs 4 = 4 hits, not 3.
2 shots bs 4 = 4/3 chance, not 1. Normally id say hes just rounding down, but based on math above I dont think that was his plan.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Grav gets 6 shots at BS4 = 3 hits doing things on 6 = .5 HPs
Arc get 2 shots at BS4 = 1 hit doing things on 2+ = 8.33 HPs (chance to pen as well)

That math is a bit flawed

lulz, making those tough arguments are we?

8.33 should be .833 - I think everyone realized that already.

6 shots bs 4 = 4 hits, not 3.
2 shots bs 4 = 4/3 chance, not 1. Normally id say hes just rounding down, but based on math above I dont think that was his plan.

I assume both were actually done at BS3 to compare Kataphron Breachers and Destroyers. Also, why is this a quote of me? Just noticed that. That's not my post.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Grav gets 6 shots at BS4 = 3 hits doing things on 6 = .5 HPs
Arc get 2 shots at BS4 = 1 hit doing things on 2+ = 8.33 HPs (chance to pen as well)

That math is a bit flawed

lulz, making those tough arguments are we?

8.33 should be .833 - I think everyone realized that already.

6 shots bs 4 = 4 hits, not 3.
2 shots bs 4 = 4/3 chance, not 1. Normally id say hes just rounding down, but based on math above I dont think that was his plan.

I assume both were actually done at BS3 to compare Kataphron Breachers and Destroyers. Also, why is this a quote of me? Just noticed that. That's not my post.

Yes I think he meant it to be at bs 3. Just pointing out that at bs4, the math is a bit flawed.
Lol I messed up with the quote. I quoted you quoting him, and when deleting all of his comment besides that math I must have deleted his name, causing yours to be the one shown. Whoops

So I'm taking the general consensus is to take Kataphrons over Kastelans MCs? I haven't been following rumor out there so am a bit behind.

I feel like the MCs might fill the niche of a fire magnet, but if their points cost and what sort of weaponry bring to the table don't justify the cost, then they're a wash. I'm not entirely sold on the models yet either. I need to see some nice conversions of their goofy heads before I commit.

Kataphrons though, I can get all on board with them. They seem relatively sturdy with T5, and grav is icing on the cake. I deal with a lot of SM players in my area, so grav never underperforms. I might have to grab a box or 2.

Really interested in what roll the Priests will fill. 3 CC units seems a bit much in such a small army. Ad Mech with both armies taken into account still feels a bit off as a full army, if the rumors of them being combined are to be trusted. A few more weird vehicles would really round them out I think.

Also ordered my first Onager. I'll get 2 more as soon as funds allow, but how should I load it out as a single guy? Icarus? I'm hoping it's easy to magnetize into all variants, but we'll see.

It's fairly easy to magnetize the gun on the Onager. I did it with 3 guns that I may use, but the best loadout for 1 is the array. And I didn't bother magnetizing the extra stubber (because hell 5 pts for a stubber I'll always take) but it wouldn't be difficult as well.

I built my 1 Onager as a Neutron Laser. This was most likely a mistake.

 Verviedi wrote:
I built my 1 Onager as a Neutron Laser. This was most likely a mistake.

Ugh. Stop theoryhammering and actually play.

Yeah, a single Neutron Laser isn't great by itself when facing huge amounts of armor or monstrous creatures.
But it is still good, especially when you field it as part of the Skitarii Maniple formation and use everything in synchronization.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I built my 1 Onager as a Neutron Laser. This was most likely a mistake.

Ugh. Stop theoryhammering and actually play.

Yeah, a single Neutron Laser isn't great by itself when facing huge amounts of armor or monstrous creatures.
But it is still good, especially when you field it as part of the Skitarii Maniple formation and use everything in synchronization.

I'll actually be fielding single neutron tomorrow. Escalation league kicking up from 500 to 700pts.

5x Rangers w/ 2x Arquebus
10x Vanguard w/ 2x Arc rifle
5x Ruststalkers w/ Claws, Dataspike & Conv Field on Princeps
3x Dragoons w/ Phosphor
1x Onager w/ Neutron

I'll report back how it goes.

That looks like a solid list for 700 points. Gotta love how cheap Skitarri are.