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In practice, how good are the cogni flamers on destroyers? Are the phosphor blasters better overall?

The flamers look great on paper but IDK if they are what a destroyer with grav wants (really only way to run destroyers imo). And really why do people take breachers at all instead of destroyers. They seem like a much worse unit than the destroyers.

Forgive me if these are newb questions I have just started getting to gether my own ad mech army.

On a side not i wish the War Convocation was a battle congregation, skitarii maniple, and oathsworn detatchment. But I guess we can't have everything lol.

Cognis Flamers are situational, but extremely effective in their role. Sadly, this role is Overwatch, and any foe getting close enough to your Destroyers to charge them, that is a herald of You Done Fethed Up.

Phosphor Blasters are generally more useful, as they nerf cover saves, allowing your Grav Cannons to be more effective against MEQs and TEQs. The problem with them is the low rate of fire and crappy AP value, combined with the low BS of Destroyers.

I run Breachers because they are a good source of long-range Haywire. 24" is not going to cut it in many situations, and 6 36" Haywire shots, even at BS3 is definitely worth it for first-turn popping vehicles.

Kanluwen wrote:Right now, we effectively have two distinct groups, with some overlap:
One group is primarily casual, playing at the local GW shop.
The other group has aspirations of being tournament players, playing exclusively at a local independent.

There's a few people who go between both groups, but a large number of the casual players who get their start at the local GW end up moving on to the other and kind of look down on playing at the GW.

Which is hilarious.

That is pretty interesting, there seems to be mix of everything at the GW and the local independent stores here.

NorseSig wrote:In practice, how good are the cogni flamers on destroyers? Are the phosphor blasters better overall?

The flamers look great on paper but IDK if they are what a destroyer with grav wants (really only way to run destroyers imo). And really why do people take breachers at all instead of destroyers. They seem like a much worse unit than the destroyers.

Forgive me if these are newb questions I have just started getting to gether my own ad mech army.

On a side not i wish the War Convocation was a battle congregation, skitarii maniple, and oathsworn detatchment. But I guess we can't have everything lol.

I personally don't take the flamers, and I actually oftentimes forget about the Phosphor blasters anyway as they are either out of range of the targets I am shooting at (that 30'' range on the grav is really nice) or they just wouldn't do anything to the target. I should be more diligent about remembering to fire them before using the grav cannons.

Breachers are really good in the Holy Requisitioner formation IMO, as it is a super good way to bring down haywire right where you need it. The main problem I have found is that people locally just aren't bringing many vehicles. The rest of the army has a decent enough amount of stuff to deal with the small amount of vehicles we face anyhow through grav-glancing, Dragoons, Dunecrawlers, Haywire on Skitarii, etc. If I knew I was going to be playing a big game with a lot of vehicles, I would bring holy requisition with Arc Kataphrons for sure. Just not enough call for their specialized weaponry in an 1850-2000 point battle. Heck I was going to bring them to a local apocalypse game recently, but unfortunately the majority of the other team was Tau, and their suits are MCs not vehicles, haywire wouldn't do much.

Maybe I could see myself running them if I knew was I going to be fighting rhino rush gladius... hmmmm....

Cognis Flamers are situational, but extremely effective in their role. Sadly, this role is Overwatch, and any foe getting close enough to your Destroyers to charge them, that is a herald of You Done Fethed Up.

Phosphor Blasters are generally more useful, as they nerf cover saves, allowing your Grav Cannons to be more effective against MEQs and TEQs. The problem with them is the low rate of fire and crappy AP value, combined with the low BS of Destroyers.

I run Breachers because they are a good source of long-range Haywire. 24" is not going to cut it in many situations, and 6 36" Haywire shots, even at BS3 is definitely worth it for first-turn popping vehicles.

Yeah I see what mean on the flamers and the Breacher now. I guess I missed it because my local meta is a lot of bikes/footsloggers ect. Grav tends to be more useful when you don't have as many transports to pop. I guess I look at the breacher and see that silly melee weapon and think that they are a shooty unit with useless melee crap that drives their price up so I tend to ignore them. But now that I look at them, they could be equally useful. Depending on what your army needs.

Breachers are really good in the Holy Requisitioner formation IMO, as it is a super good way to bring down haywire right where you need it. The main problem I have found is that people locally just aren't bringing many vehicles. The rest of the army has a decent enough amount of stuff to deal with the small amount of vehicles we face anyhow through grav-glancing, Dragoons, Dunecrawlers, Haywire on Skitarii, etc. If I knew I was going to be playing a big game with a lot of vehicles, I would bring holy requisition with Arc Kataphrons for sure. Just not enough call for their specialized weaponry in an 1850-2000 point battle. Heck I was going to bring them to a local apocalypse game recently, but unfortunately the majority of the other team was Tau, and their suits are MCs not vehicles, haywire wouldn't do much.

Maybe I could see myself running them if I knew was I going to be fighting rhino rush gladius... hmmmm....

I will have to look closer at that formation. I don't know if you would need the breachers to pop the rhinos. My opponents never seemed to have troubles popping my IH rhinos when I ran gladius. I think the grav would be more useful for blowing up the toughest marine units as well as the occupants of the rhinos.

Thank you guys for your help.

That's a good looking army, Verviedi. Bonus points for using that gooby servo-skull measuring tape

Thanks! I really love the tape, it's so very useful.

I use cognis flamers on all my kataphrons and I would never go back. They are fantastic in overwatch as was already said but it also gives them SOME utility when grav isn't as good for that role.. clearing troops etc. Of course this means dropping them in close which can be bad but if you can do enough damage/support them and also make your opponent think about charging into 18 grav shots and 9 wall of death is pretty good too.

Solar_lion wrote:CA.. go back and read this entire blog.. There is some good lists and discussions on what works.

Check out some battle reports. It' should give you some insight on how the army plays. Lastly... get to playing. That's the real learning.

Will do, thanks for the help!

Verviedi wrote:CA, in the future you will want to remove that second Ranger squad. Vanguard are better in most ways, and Arquebi are a bit derpy for a special weapon. I recommend buying an Onager Dunecrawler next. How is your local meta? Is it flyer-heavy, tank-heavy, competitive?

Ah okay, I'll just keep it at a stock configuration for now then; 5x galvanic rifles.

Onager Dunecrawler? Because of the anti air? or just because all round, that would be the best next choice regardless of loadout?

Also, unsure of the local meta, I should ask around. I will let you know, if I find out anytime soon. Thanks for your help too

Dunecrawlers are a very versatile unit, good for both anti-armor/heavy infantry or AA. The hierachy of Dunecrawler guns is Icarus Array/Neutron Laser > ERAD Beamer > Phosphor Blaster.

How competitive would you guys say the war convocation formation is? Can it go toe-to-toe with top tier armies, and if you were planning to use it as such, what units would you ally in?

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
How competitive would you guys say the war convocation formation is? Can it go toe-to-toe with top tier armies, and if you were planning to use it as such, what units would you ally in?

In short-

Yes and No. If you want to compete with top tier army builds like Centurionstar, bring pods and an assassin.

Long answer-

When War Convocation first came out people were blown away by it. "Free wargear and relics wtf? ooohhh that's so OP and all units can have stealth and shrouded omg pls reecius pls nerf" but really War Convo has been figured out by top tier players as of late. Buffs to Tau help with this as well, as much of the Tau's style of take away cover, erase unit is a direct counter to war convocation's play style. War Convocation without allies can be nasty, but it is limited in its versatility. War Convocation by itself does one thing- move up with stealth and shrouded, get close, shoot you to death then assault you with surprisingly good CC units and force to you shoot at our big scary Knight that usually doesn't do much but kill one or two units and draw fire.

When you bring in blood angel allies with the flesh-tearers rent-a-pod formation to give all of the skitarii and kataphrons drop pods, and add in a culexus assassin with a pod as well, that list has won tournaments. One of the users you saw post above, InControl, won a tournament with a list similar to that. I'm sure you should be able to find it somewhere on the interwebs.

Hey guys, I am looking at resurrecting and starting my Skitarii/Ad Mech army once again and I have a few questions as I really don't know much about them since almost no one around here plays them. My questions are:

-Best Loadout for the Onager? I am going to have a minimum of 1 with the Icarus Array for Skyfire purposes but I am planning on getting at least 2 more, so any input on the best way to run these guys would be great!

-Vanguard or Rangers using allied transports? Just curious how many of you utilize other armies Formations or books to ensure our guys get to where they need to go safely.

-How many Kataphrons and better to put them in a big squad or MSU? I am currently running x3 Squads of them (x2 squads of Destroyers with Grav and x1 squad of Breachers with Heavy Arc Rifles).

Thanks for your input guys!

 gmaleron wrote:
Hey guys, I am looking at resurrecting and starting my Skitarii/Ad Mech army once again and I have a few questions as I really don't know much about them since almost no one around here plays them. My questions are:

-Best Loadout for the Onager? I am going to have a minimum of 1 with the Icarus Array for Skyfire purposes but I am planning on getting at least 2 more, so any input on the best way to run these guys would be great!

-Vanguard or Rangers using allied transports? Just curious how many of you utilize other armies Formations or books to ensure our guys get to where they need to go safely.

-How many Kataphrons and better to put them in a big squad or MSU? I am currently running x3 Squads of them (x2 squads of Destroyers with Grav and x1 squad of Breachers with Heavy Arc Rifles).

Thanks for your input guys!

- the S10 laser is often valuable.
-vanguard
-I'm trying a single squad of grav destroyers in an Allied Detachment supporting an invisible death star, five of them so they gain most advantage from psychic powers. But if you're not throwing buffs around, an average of 9 grav hits from three destroyers is more than enough.

So, I am sure you guys get this question a lot, but I am look for advice in starting a Mechanicus army. I am a bit overwhelmed with the options, so I am looking for some advice. I have played Guard since 5th edition, and that was the last time I "started" an army. I have a few questions I was hoping I could get help with;

1. Is it possible to run the army without doing the whole "everyone shares a transport" thing? I REALLY don't like how it looks on the stable and was hoping I could play the mechanicus side of the house as the majority of the army, allying in assassins and inquisition sparingly (I am totally cool mixing knights in though, with them being mechanicum aligned and all that).

2. I see that lost of people seem to be testing the Holy Requsitioner formation. I planned on getting that at first to ally with my IG, but I was considering the Torsion cannons over the Arc Rifles. Are the Arc Rifles the strictly better option?

3. Where is the best place to "start" with mechanicus. Should I continue and go into Cult mechanicus first, or should I start with skitarri?

4. Has anyone tried using a bunker with an escape hatch in skitarri in place of a drop pod to get some units up the field faster?

Thank you.

Ok so I will answer these in my best opinion.

1. It is very possible. Do not underestimate the speed of the Skitarii units. Having the ability to Scout up and place your units up to 18 inches from your deployment zone. And Using infiltrators and their scout move can get you VERY far up the table where you need them. But be careful, they are fragile and draw a lot of attention that close. Also using the Holy Requisitioner Formation can get ou two strong units on an objective that are hard to remove and pack a hard punch.

2. The Holy Requistioner formation is great! Either way, it really depends on your local meta though. If you have a lot of Armor on the table you want the Arc, if you have units with multiple wound models the Torsion is the way to go.

3. I found that when I started my Mechanicus I went with the Mechanicus first as they were easier to ally and worked well with a number of allies. Destroyers are great as troops with great range and 2 wounds. The Tech Priest is a strong HQ that is very versatile

4. The bunker is a great idea, but be careful. Find out how the escape hatch is ruled in your area, in a lot of places it is under debate about placing the hatch and where. But putting your Skitarii in there and popping them out so close to an enemy unit can be a big surprise and then placing a big unit of destroyers in the bunker to camp and fire will go very far. The other popular option for a fortification is a Void Shield Generator..

Verviedi, I'd really REALLY like to see what you do without using the War Convocation. My group of gamers are much more casual, much more friendly (but by no means total pushovers) so I need to play in that sweet spot of being competitive in a friendly environment. No large number of scatpack eldar or centurionstar marines here.

I bought up a bunch of the Mechanicus when they first came out for love of the look, but they've been doing nothing more than collecting dust and occasionally making me wonder if they'd serve me better as an ebay lot. Thankfully I'm getting the itch to give them a go, and it'd certainly (selfishly) do me well to see some good players using them without the War Convocation.

I plan on doing more non-Convocation, non-ally games in the future. My store doesn't allow video recording, and it's absolute murder remembering what shot what and what it did, so battle reports are incredibly difficult to make.
I'll play a game with my Skitarii/Cult Mech list after I test out my experimental 21-Crisis-Salute list.

Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.

What a silly question!

 Wilson wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.

What a silly question!

I don't have a 40k Mechanicus army atm but I have a 30k one and I just built my Ulator on Saturday. I am wondering if it's worth shelling out for the 40k army just so people stop telling me 30k is overpowered when I laser them from across the battlefield. XD

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.

What a silly question!

I don't have a 40k Mechanicus army atm but I have a 30k one and I just built my Ulator on Saturday. I am wondering if it's worth shelling out for the 40k army just so people stop telling me 30k is overpowered when I laser them from across the battlefield. XD

exalted

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.

What a silly question!

I don't have a 40k Mechanicus army atm but I have a 30k one and I just built my Ulator on Saturday. I am wondering if it's worth shelling out for the 40k army just so people stop telling me 30k is overpowered when I laser them from across the battlefield. XD

Yeah, I think it is a big misconception that 30k is overpowered to 40k. I have seen a few 30k vs 40k matchups. Most of the time the 40k player won. Though it seems 30k wants to play at the 2500 pts and higher mark imo.

Ok, I have been a long time lurker minding my own business. But now i'm about to start a new armé, AdMech, War Convocation.
But i don't know how to play it, can you help me with that?
Oh and I want to play a "pure" AdMech army, no pods. Maby an Assassin.

Verviedi, would it be possible to update the opening post with the unit and formation reviews. A lot of stuff isn't even covered and what is are still initial impressions from the release. I'd be happy to help contribute if needed. Thanks!

Helping contribute would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for raising the issue to my attention.

As Said before I'm about to start a Skitarii army and now i'm stuck in witch Troop choise I should make.
I have read alot on the net but can't decide on what to take, so if someone would share some wisdom, please

Oh and sorry English aint my native language

Belsibub wrote:
As Said before I'm about to start a Skitarii army and now i'm stuck in witch Troop choise I should make.
I have read alot on the net but can't decide on what to take, so if someone would share some wisdom, please

Oh and sorry English aint my native language

Vanguard are better than Rangers in nearly all situations.

Ok, thank you.
Rangers do they have a place, objectivecamping with arquebus?

See, I'm in disagreement that Vanguard are better than Rangers.

They each have their place.
Rangers really shine when you're fighting enemies that like to hide characters or special/heavy weapons inside of units. A full unit of 10 Rangers with no special weapons is still a pretty scary thing for someone to fight, especially if you get hot dice and start making Precision Shots left and right. Fight the instinct to Precision Shot at the ICs or characters within a unit and instead aim for the juicy special/heavy weapons and the basic soldiers. You can't "Look Out, Sir!" if all the basic guys are dead.

Vanguard come into their own when fighting high Toughness and high Wound critters--as per the wording of Rad-Poisoning, they can actually cause Wounds to things that are a higher Toughness than they actually are able to wound. They also really come into their own when fighting large masses of troops.

I try to go a 1:2 ratio when possible; one full unit of Rangers to two full units of Vanguard.