Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Vanguard are like the best.

I know that Vanguard in drop pods is a thing, but with Mont'ka there's now a formation of 3 Valkyrie/Vendetta squadrons that all come in on the same turn us now able to be used. So I personally was looking at x3 Vendetta loaded with six Vanguard each to get them in range and have tank busting capabilities. On the flip side rangers would probably fare better due to having move through cover so they wouldn't have to worry about dangerous terrain tests.

They each have their place, and the Vanguard have a much larger place than Rangers.

Picking out models is a niche and it won't help you against units you're really worried about. And how many sixes to hit does a full unit get on average? 1.4? They'll make their armor save or Look Out Sir anyway. Even in this niche situation, Vanguard can just pile on the wounds and that's just as valuable.

They'd be better at camping objectives if they could get Objective Secured, but that's not an option. They do get Move Through Cover which I actually think is more valuable than Precision Shots.

So how large should each unit be, and what kind of wepon should I equip them with?

One a side note how would you use Ironstrider?
Or is Dragoons a better choise?

axisofentropy wrote:
They each have their place, and the Vanguard have a much larger place than Rangers.

Picking out models is a niche and it won't help you against units you're really worried about. And how many sixes to hit does a full unit get on average? 1.4?

Surprisingly enough, it will actually help quite a bit--and it opens up avenues that other armies do not necessarily have access to.

They'll make their armor save or Look Out Sir anyway. Even in this niche situation, Vanguard can just pile on the wounds and that's just as valuable.

Galvanic Rifles are S4 AP4 with Rapid Fire and Precision Shots.
Radium Carbines are S3 AP5, with rolls of 6s to Wound causing 2 Wounds that get allocated and saved against separately and being 3 static shots at 18".

Any army where you really worry about things being bundled in like this tends towards being a 2-4 save, with none of it being 5. Galvanic Rifles can at least negate Carapace Armor--something which cannot be said for the Radium Carbines.

 Kanluwen wrote:


Any army where you really worry about things being bundled in like this tends towards being a 2-4 save, with none of it being 5. Galvanic Rifles can at least negate Carapace Armor--something which cannot be said for the Radium Carbines.

what unit with 4+ armor are you actually afraid of?

I'm not a mechanicus player, but, for example, against necrons: the ranger are "safe", being at long range (necrons lack long range weapons) and they are ap4, to kill the warriors.
I mean, it isn't just the ap and the precision shots, it is the range too.
I think it's a big difference.
Against IG, they can kill the sergeants with power weapons, melta bombs etc or the heavy weapons, and at 30".

I'm not saying they are better, but I'm just wondering if the well known fact the rangers are far better is really true or if it is just a trend.

(Everything I said is obviously if you don't have drop pod).

Drowning a unit in wounds also negates armor

That and vanguard can wound *any* non-vehicle on a 6, twice

And they're cheaper.

Skitarii can take a single fortification as a part of their CAD. A Vengeance battery with a BS2 battlecannon is only 85 points. I was thinking an AV14 building putting out S8 AP3 pie plates might be handy to have in a pure Skitarii force. Thoughts?

Can anyone recommend and tactics, unit choices and weapon load outs for a game against tyranids?

Xeones7 wrote:
Can anyone recommend and tactics, unit choices and weapon load outs for a game against tyranids?

As long as you aren't fighting 5 Flyrants, Tyranids are pretty easy prey for us as long as you keep in mind your targets stats. We have a tool in our book(s) to defeat just about everything Tyranids have to throw at us. The biggest concern is probably biovores.

We can shoot them to death, then our CC units are better than theirs. I had a squad of 5 Infiltrators kill half a tyranid army in a 1500 point game, out dueling even tyranid warriors. I felt pretty bad.

vs Tyranids watch out for mawlocs and remember they can only hit bottom floors so keep the infiltrators/rust stalkers off the ground if you can.

Flyrants shoot out str6 so they are basically lawn mowers vs admech BUT they don't handle wounds well so Dune Crawlers with icarus are basically a dead flyrant each volley (especially if twin linked). Tyranids have a really tough time dealing with Knights so they pair well. Avoid the egrubs but slog forward as long as you are avoiding multiple angle flyrants. Feel free to sit back a turn or two.. with that '12 movement you are fine to thin them out then move forward.

As the new Dominus Maniple formation was just released with the new Skitarii starter box, I was wondering how everyone would kit out the three units.

I am thinking:

Dominus w/ volkite blaster, phosphor serpenta, Raiment 140

10 Vangaurd w/ 2 Arc Rifles, Omnispex, Alpha with refractor Field - 145

Dunecrawler w/ Icarus array, Cognus heavy stubber, mindscaner probe - 140

Total - 425

So I decided to make a list and I figured you folks could help me round it out to a cool 1850:
CAD
x1 Lias Issodon

x5 Scouts
. 5 Sniper Rifles
x5 Scouts
. 5 Sniper Rifles

x3 Drop Pods

x3 Devastator Centurions
. 3 Grav Cannons, 3 Hurricane Bolters, Omniscope

Maniple
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Plasma Calivers, Omnispex
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Plasma Calivers, Omnispex
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Plasma Calivers, Omnispex

Obviously some things I could change around (if it would be preferable to switch Arc Rifles to Arquebus instead, losing the Sniper Rifles on the Scouts, etc), but as I made the list there's 75 points to go and spend. How would you folks best suggest I finish it off? The main plans should be pretty obvious, but if it isn't I can delve into the main details.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So I decided to make a list and I figured you folks could help me round it out to a cool 1850:
CAD
x1 Lias Issodon

x5 Scouts
. 5 Sniper Rifles
x5 Scouts
. 5 Sniper Rifles

x3 Drop Pods

x3 Devastator Centurions
. 3 Grav Cannons, 3 Hurricane Bolters, Omniscope

Maniple
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Plasma Calivers, Omnispex
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Plasma Calivers, Omnispex
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Plasma Calivers, Omnispex

Obviously some things I could change around (if it would be preferable to switch Arc Rifles to Arquebus instead, losing the Sniper Rifles on the Scouts, etc), but as I made the list there's 75 points to go and spend. How would you folks best suggest I finish it off? The main plans should be pretty obvious, but if it isn't I can delve into the main details.

Cool list. As you said the sniper scouts imo are wasted points.. just go plain scouts they really don't justify spending points on unless there is a chapter buff going on or something. Why 30 rangers? The arc rifles are exactly the same in the hands of the vanguard but are better in CC due to rad poisoning and will save you 2 pts a model. Also rad guns are really good imo.

Maniple gives you scout which is really nice for getting them to move around but in a lot of missions (hammer and anvil in particular) slogging 60 soldiers up field can be a real bore. Maybe get some transports? Not super common but even like 3-4 rhinos would be really cool.

Right now as it stands your entire list is shut down by a voidshield. Your infantry won't be in range to impact it which only your plasma can unless the mission is dawn of war OR your opponent deploys poorly (the other possibility is you roll a 3 on the strategic warlord table... or does Lias come with that? I think he does. doesn't he?) ok well given what I just realized nevermind.. that is pretty cool I guess the weakness then would be getting seized on with so much infantry hanging in the wind but that is the game we play anyways. That CAN be mitigated by some rhinos though like I recommend!

The Arc Rifles have a better complimentary range. Plus S4 is able to glance lots of rear armor at the very least, so if I need to throw the Vanguard into the Drop Pods I'd be more likely to glance to death in one singular volley. Plus with Lias I can Infiltrate at minimum himself and the Centurions, and with the average roll of two I can Infiltrate a Vanguard squad more than likely. There's a balance going on there.

As for the Voidshield comment...nah. Rending Hurricane Bolters if I stand still (equates .9 HP removed on AV12; I'm good), Arc Rifles being S6, and Calivers being S7 means I'm really wondering how I'm shut down by a singular Void Shield.

On the Rhino comment, I have 3 Drop Pods for any necessary drops. I'm fine with moving the models otherwise.

So prepping for LVO, think I have a solid list that can handle anything, well except psykers but meh ill power through it

Debating though as my war convo has 2 dunecrawlers, trying to optimize loadout. This weekend ran it with 1 Neutron and 1 Icarus which didnt work out too badly considering that shooting at flyers one couldnt shoot, and shooting at ground one had to snap shoot

Thoughs? Double Icarus, double neutron, 1 and 1? Maybe a phosphor or conversion beamer?

Definitely double Icarus, it might only be useful against skimmers and flyers but having them against no flyers is better than not having them against an opponent using flyers. It is the lesser of two evils.

 ultimentra wrote:
Definitely double Icarus, it might only be useful against skimmers and flyers but having them against no flyers is better than not having them against an opponent using flyers. It is the lesser of two evils.

True which is why I went 1 icarus and 1 neutron, I tried double icarus but they were fairly useless all of my games as no one had flyers or skimmers

 ultimentra wrote:
Definitely double Icarus, it might only be useful against skimmers and flyers but having them against no flyers is better than not having them against an opponent using flyers. It is the lesser of two evils.

Well the question is how many flyers are we to expect out of the main competitive lists you'll expect.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Arc Rifles have a better complimentary range. Plus S4 is able to glance lots of rear armor at the very least, so if I need to throw the Vanguard into the Drop Pods I'd be more likely to glance to death in one singular volley. Plus with Lias I can Infiltrate at minimum himself and the Centurions, and with the average roll of two I can Infiltrate a Vanguard squad more than likely. There's a balance going on there.

As for the Voidshield comment...nah. Rending Hurricane Bolters if I stand still (equates .9 HP removed on AV12; I'm good), Arc Rifles being S6, and Calivers being S7 means I'm really wondering how I'm shut down by a singular Void Shield.

On the Rhino comment, I have 3 Drop Pods for any necessary drops. I'm fine with moving the models otherwise.

"let me know what you think of the list"

So I can argue against everything you suggest!

Ok man You know better than me how to play adeptus mechanicus I am sure

iNcontroL wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Arc Rifles have a better complimentary range. Plus S4 is able to glance lots of rear armor at the very least, so if I need to throw the Vanguard into the Drop Pods I'd be more likely to glance to death in one singular volley. Plus with Lias I can Infiltrate at minimum himself and the Centurions, and with the average roll of two I can Infiltrate a Vanguard squad more than likely. There's a balance going on there.

As for the Voidshield comment...nah. Rending Hurricane Bolters if I stand still (equates .9 HP removed on AV12; I'm good), Arc Rifles being S6, and Calivers being S7 means I'm really wondering how I'm shut down by a singular Void Shield.

On the Rhino comment, I have 3 Drop Pods for any necessary drops. I'm fine with moving the models otherwise.

"let me know what you think of the list"

So I can argue against everything you suggest!

Ok man You know better than me how to play adeptus mechanicus I am sure

Wasn't trying to say that haha. Just that some of the criticisms were unfounded.

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has had success with pairing a librarius conclave with the war convocation. I was thinking about using white scars bike libs to confer hit and run, and absorb some shots for the ruststalkers and infiltrators. Also for the extra mobility and buffs, divination and telepathy.
I don't see much death star in my local meta, if it starts coming up I'll probably switch to basically incontrol's list or at least throw in Culexus and keep him in a dirty spot.
TL: DR
anyone use bike librarians with the conclave? If so, please share.

Buzz1991 wrote:
Hi, I was wondering if anyone has had success with pairing a librarius conclave with the war convocation. I was thinking about using white scars bike libs to confer hit and run, and absorb some shots for the ruststalkers and infiltrators. Also for the extra mobility and buffs, divination and telepathy.
I don't see much death star in my local meta, if it starts coming up I'll probably switch to basically incontrol's list or at least throw in Culexus and keep him in a dirty spot.
TL: DR
anyone use bike librarians with the conclave? If so, please share.

I have, but as part of my IH Smash+command squad+chaplain and I run IH libbys. Works well for me but then again I am using them in a much tougher unit. I think it could work, but I don't know how reliable it would be with ML1 Libbys. Might work out for ad mech because you want them more for their defensive stats.

Anyone have any good ideas on how to make Electro-Priests work?

I have wan't them as models for a very long time and was so excited to see a Mechanicus release, only to be utterly dissapointed. It is not that they are -that- terrible, but in their codex they are close to garbage. You pay a premium for all their rules, but on a guardsmen body so none really get into play. My biggest problem with them is speed. They are so slow it is painful. I really do love them and want to try them out, but how is an....expensive...unit of guardsmen with 5++ suppose to get around the table?

Anyone have any luck with these guys? I can only think of a few ways to run them.

One being having the Dominus just join them and lead them across the board taking most their fire. I love this visually, but practically it has the problem of being a low unit. I feel it would either be wiped out or by the time you got to anything the unit would be too damaged to matter.

Grey Knights could be one fun plan. Have a librarian with a Fulgurite group warp around and buff their invulnerable save. Thats a 2++ if they do anything. Problem is they cant assault out of warp, so that is more slow movement, and the psyker powers are random so you can't guarantee anything.

Hell, I thought of just sticking Corpuscarii in a drop pod and trying my best. They can shoot the turn they come in and if they survive they can just rush the nearest thing. Personally, I hate using Drop Pods outside space marine lists though.

Anyone been trying anything else or have any ideas? I am staring at these models now and trying desperately to find a proper use for them.

RaptorHunter wrote:
Anyone have any good ideas on how to make Electro-Priests work?

I have wan't them as models for a very long time and was so excited to see a Mechanicus release, only to be utterly dissapointed. It is not that they are -that- terrible, but in their codex they are close to garbage. You pay a premium for all their rules, but on a guardsmen body so none really get into play. My biggest problem with them is speed. They are so slow it is painful. I really do love them and want to try them out, but how is an....expensive...unit of guardsmen with 5++ suppose to get around the table?

Anyone have any luck with these guys? I can only think of a few ways to run them.

One being having the Dominus just join them and lead them across the board taking most their fire. I love this visually, but practically it has the problem of being a low unit. I feel it would either be wiped out or by the time you got to anything the unit would be too damaged to matter.

Grey Knights could be one fun plan. Have a librarian with a Fulgurite group warp around and buff their invulnerable save. Thats a 2++ if they do anything. Problem is they cant assault out of warp, so that is more slow movement, and the psyker powers are random so you can't guarantee anything.

Hell, I thought of just sticking Corpuscarii in a drop pod and trying my best. They can shoot the turn they come in and if they survive they can just rush the nearest thing. Personally, I hate using Drop Pods outside space marine lists though.

Anyone been trying anything else or have any ideas? I am staring at these models now and trying desperately to find a proper use for them.

Maybe with the dominus and some inquisition allies? Shoot for inquisition psyker and take the fliers from one of the IAs they get as an option? Or some other psyker with them dom and ideally an assault vehicle. Though maybe a dom and librarius conclave would work if you get invis. They are such a bad unit it is hard to make them good when everything else is better. Can't help but wonder what GW was or wasn't thinking. Sorry if any of this is unclear it is late and I should not be reading and writing posts late at night lol. at least not drunk.

Thanks NorseSig, I'm eventually trying to move my allies from white scars to iron hands, for the fluff and the sweet rules. But I was planning on running 4 lv 2 libs 3 on bikes. Mostly for tanking fire on turn 1, conferring hit and run, maybe grab an objective, and buffs of course.

Whats the consensus with the fortification. I mean the formation rules say wargear "options" and the upgrades for buildings are listed using the word options. I mean it kinda would make sense the dominus would have a pimped out bastion or something.

Building upgrades arent labeled as "Wargear" in Stronghold Assault. Therefore they unfortunately arent free.

RaptorHunter wrote:
Anyone have any good ideas on how to make Electro-Priests work?

I have wan't them as models for a very long time and was so excited to see a Mechanicus release, only to be utterly dissapointed. It is not that they are -that- terrible, but in their codex they are close to garbage. You pay a premium for all their rules, but on a guardsmen body so none really get into play. My biggest problem with them is speed. They are so slow it is painful. I really do love them and want to try them out, but how is an....expensive...unit of guardsmen with 5++ suppose to get around the table?

Anyone have any luck with these guys? I can only think of a few ways to run them.

One being having the Dominus just join them and lead them across the board taking most their fire. I love this visually, but practically it has the problem of being a low unit. I feel it would either be wiped out or by the time you got to anything the unit would be too damaged to matter.

Grey Knights could be one fun plan. Have a librarian with a Fulgurite group warp around and buff their invulnerable save. Thats a 2++ if they do anything. Problem is they cant assault out of warp, so that is more slow movement, and the psyker powers are random so you can't guarantee anything.

Hell, I thought of just sticking Corpuscarii in a drop pod and trying my best. They can shoot the turn they come in and if they survive they can just rush the nearest thing. Personally, I hate using Drop Pods outside space marine lists though.

Anyone been trying anything else or have any ideas? I am staring at these models now and trying desperately to find a proper use for them.

I've been toying around with the idea myself, at least the fulgerites. Just theoretical.

Brother Captain Stern comes with Sanctuary so that is the only way to guarantee the inv bump. I'd also want to get a priest in there via sisters or IG for the reroll of saves. Delivery would be the tricky part, already looking at 3 detachments but land raider or open topped IG superheavy are options.

Well I have been storming a list. I'm trying to take advantage of the White Scars tactics along with a conclave.
Also I like the idea of an un-killable unit counting for canticles, the defense line.
This is also more tailored for local meta, and there aren't many death stars.

War Convocation- 2000
Mechanicus Battle Congregation
HQ
- Dominus 105
- stasis field, Skryerskull Perspicatus
Troops
- Destroyers 165
- Grav, 3 cognis flamer
- Destroyers 165
- Grav, 3 cognis flamer
Fortification
- Aegis defense line
Skitarii Battle Maniple
- 5 Vanguard 55
- 2 calivers, omnispex, data-tether
- arc pistol, arc maul, refractor field, digital weapons, Pater Radium
- 5 Rangers 65
- 2 calivers, omnispex, data-tether
- arc pistol, arc maul, refractor field, digital weapons, Phosphoenix
- 5 Rustalkers 160
- refractor field, digital weapons, dataspike, Omniscient Mask (zealot)
- 5 Infiltrators 185
- taser goads, flechette blasters
- infoslave skull, refractor field, dig weapons, Phase Taser
- 2 Dragoons 90
- phosphor serpentas
- Dunecrawler 90
- Icarus, cognis hvy stubber, mindscanner probe, cognis manipulator
Oathsworn
- Knight Destroyer 425
- rapid fire battle cannon, twin icarus, meltagun

Librarius Conclave (White Scars)
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Divination
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Divination
- ML2 Lib, auspex on bike 115 Telepathy
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Telepathy