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-I can take a basic chapter master without taking Calgar, Kantor or Helbrecht
-I can take a basic captain without taking Sicarius, Shrike, Lysander or Vulkan
-I can take a basic master of the forge

But:
-I can't take a basic chief librarian without taking Tigurius
-I can't take a basic Master of Sancitity without taking Cassius or Grimaldus

a) How does it make logical sense that I can do the former, but not the latter?
b) How is it fair that I need to play Ultramarines or Black Templars to get a chief librarian or master of sanctity?

Yes, I can see the argument about having 2 level 3 psykers, giving you +6 warp charges. However, there could still be some restrictions. Also, GK can take 2 lvl 3 librarians and then all of their other models are either psykers, brotherhood of psykers or psychic pilots

It's an artifact of the 5e Codex-simplification project, nothing to do with the game today; not particularly fair or sane but that's what you get when Matt Ward rewrites your book. The 4e Codex had profile upgrades for Chaplains and Librarians, among other options that have mysteriously vanished (two special weapon Tactical squads, pistol/chainsword Tactical squads, Command Squads with Jump Packs or Terminator armour, Veteran skills...)

Ah, I still remember when terminator honors upgrade used to be a thing.Good times.....
Anywho, the answer to your question is: there is no good reason why they don't have those units (oh and Matt Ward loves ultramarines).

I guess you can cross your fingers for them to be options in the next codex.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
I guess you can cross your fingers for them to be options in the next codex.

Unlikely. Recent Codexes tend to err on the side of taking things away rather than giving them back. I predict no more generic Chapter Master because Smashfucker gets too much bitching.

So, this whole thing and lack of stuff that sounds pretty cool is because of the whole "Spiritual Liege" thing? My hatred for Matt Ward has just been cranked up to 11.

First, he fills the SM codex with poorly written Ultramarine fanboy fluff, turning the entire chapter into Mary Sues

Then, he writes that abomination of a BA codex that includes deep striking land raiders and vampire Jesus Mephiston and gives BA a bad name as an OP army that only newbies play

Next, he does the GK codex. This was when the Mary Sue to end all Mary Sues came along, Draio

And now, I find that he got rid of a load of stuff that was actually cool.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
I guess you can cross your fingers for them to be options in the next codex.

Unlikely. Recent Codexes tend to err on the side of taking things away rather than giving them back. I predict no more generic Chapter Master because Smashfucker gets too much bitching.

You are assuming GW listens to their customers...

Its ok guys, they are writing new codex's now that force you to buy the new crap they put out that makes the codex playable, and taking away all the fun things from previous editions....

Whats that Everyone? your tired of the orks having a vehicle upgrade worth a damn? "INSERT NERF HAMMER PICTURE" no more deff rollas. (Glorified ram)

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Its ok guys, they are writing new codex's now that force you to buy the new crap they put out that makes the codex playable, and taking away all the fun things from previous editions....

Whats that Everyone? your tired of the orks having a vehicle upgrade worth a damn? "INSERT NERF HAMMER PICTURE" no more deff rollas. (Glorified ram)

The Deff Rolla nerf was pretty excessive, but to be fair, the thing was...well...literally a meat grinder. It could clear small squads with little to no effort to the Ork player, and that was BEFORE the guys inside even did something afterwards.

The overall nerf to Wagons was kinda suckey, since the only real issue was Easy Bake Ovens, which they fixed with the changes to Flamers no longer allowing you to wound outside of the template's reach.

Well, at least we still have something along the lines of ML2 upgrade for librarians and all-mighty "counts as"... Granted, the latter doesn't solve much in terms of getting a customizable IC.

Well, usually it's spelled Mat Ward

natpri771 wrote:-I can take a basic chapter master without taking Calgar, Kantor or Helbrecht
-I can take a basic captain without taking Sicarius, Shrike, Lysander or Vulkan
-I can take a basic master of the forge

But:
-I can't take a basic chief librarian without taking Tigurius
-I can't take a basic Master of Sancitity without taking Cassius or Grimaldus

a) How does it make logical sense that I can do the former, but not the latter?
b) How is it fair that I need to play Ultramarines or Black Templars to get a chief librarian or master of sanctity?

Yes, I can see the argument about having 2 level 3 psykers, giving you +6 warp charges. However, there could still be some restrictions. Also, GK can take 2 lvl 3 librarians and then all of their other models are either psykers, brotherhood of psykers or psychic pilots

Imagine you are GW, the company that is trying to make a living. You have all these chaplain models, and you have to sell them to people.

That's it.

You don't have to do any sales for Masters of Sanctity, because you don't have any models for them.

You know, I see reasons to not make models for Masters of Sanctity. Mainly, there wouldn't be any difference between them and models for chaplains. It seems like a better idea to make a moderate number of different chaplain models, and just sell them all as chaplains.

Generic captain and generic CM use the same model, but they also have named equivalents. For chaplains and librarians, there are no regular-level named characters.

I think if GW started publishing rules for four different ranks of chaplain or librarian, I'd be a little disdainful.

This has nothing to do with rules, or fairness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, so from a hobbyist point of view, I think that there is a better option than generic Master of Sanctity or Reclusiarch.

Like I say, one problem is that I would want the model to be very different than the chaplain model.

I think the solution is in the lore. Any time a chaplain gets to be very senior in rank and initiated into the high offices of the chapter cult, he will wear more and more symbols of his particular chapter's cult. A regular chaplain has a practical job keeping his company's marines in good fighting shape, but the senior chaplains are more about the chapter's traditions and symbolism, and look like it.

It would be wrong to have a generic Master of Sanctity when there should be chapter specific senior chaplains. You can't have a generic pile of skulls and crozius arcanum for a Salamanders or Iron Hands Reclusiarch, they have to have either a Thunder Hammer and drake scale cloak or a servo arm and bundle of mechadendrites, depending.

Not every chapter can get its own special chaplain, but I think some of them will not feel like they are missing out, for example the Raven Guard or White Scars.

you got it 100% right, they don't want to produce a new model they know they won't sell much of.

On the flipside they are a bit stupid when they took Wazdakka out of the ORK codex, they could have sold at least 1 of those models to every 2-3 ork players.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
they could have sold at least 1 of those models to every 2-3 ork players.

More if they didn't **** it up and made it a decent base for conversions.

if you want to run a cheif librarian just run a Librarian and say he's your chapter's chief librarian. it's strongly implied in his fluff that Tigerus is one of the most powerful Librarians in the IoM. not every chapter of Marines is gonna produce a Librarian of that strength. especially when you consider that the vast bulk of psykers with any noticeable talent are going to be picked up by the black ships. (or in the primitive cultures many SMs recruit from stoned to death) ..... the more I think of it the more it suprises me SM chapters have the number of Librarians they do. that said if you REALLY want a ML 3 libarian, GW;s eistablished that each mastery level costs 25 points. ask your opponent if he minds you purchasing a third mastery level. assuming you don't have a reputation for abusing invisability etc you're proably fine in a casual game