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I have on, Excellent authority, new info.

4 army books which I am assuming will be costly

Skirmish game for sure no news of a new system with blocks of infantry. no idea about how this game will function beyond it being skirmish

old fluff returns via gods like sigmar recreating the old world anew. GREAT NEWS. New kits, New characters, if the old character died in the end times he won't be coming back so pretty much everyone.

this is all I have but it's great stuff since it means new game, New story, New minis, all done WITHOUT invalidating the minis you already own. books will be more generalized so no more individual books but that doesn't stop anyone from playing just one faction.

THE MINIS WE OWN WILL NOT GO TO WASTE.

knowing where this is from I'm starting to work on my fantasy again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also round or square bases make no difference. Keep them square or switch won't change anything

I want to believe...

 Alpharius wrote:
I want to believe...

I am taking this one to the bank. knowing the source I am 99.9% the only reason it's not 100% is because it's not in front of me right now

 namiel wrote:

if the old character died in the end times he won't be coming back so pretty much everyone.

all done WITHOUT invalidating the minis you already own.

These two statements can, quite literally, not both be true.

 streamdragon wrote:

 namiel wrote:

if the old character died in the end times he won't be coming back so pretty much everyone.

all done WITHOUT invalidating the minis you already own.

These two statements can, quite literally, not both be true.

Exactly. Fantasy would, in fact, become a system no different than Mordheim or any of the Specialist Games. And we all know what happened to those games...

Well, without invalidating models, except for:

-Characters, especially things like the new Thanquol and Boneripper, Glottkin, and other large models that cant be used as a normal character.....

-Models you won't use because they aren't in the new lists....

-Models you won't use because it's a skirmish game with far less figures, so rebase 20 models, leave the other 200 on a shelf....

As a player, I'm trying to not become more cynical about GW than i currently am, i try to pretty much ignore rumors, and just focus on what comes out.

As a retailer, i look at thousands of dollars in ultra slow selling fantasy models and books, and try to have hope.

I'll play a new skirmish game, just don't think it will be a replacement for WFB any more than Mordheim is.

I'm looking forward to the skirmish game! Im hoping my Empire become even more wacky and grim dark too

 mikhaila wrote:
Well, without invalidating models, except for:

-Characters, especially things like the new Thanquol and Boneripper, Glottkin, and other large models that cant be used as a normal character.....

-Models you won't use because they aren't in the new lists....

-Models you won't use because it's a skirmish game with far less figures, so rebase 20 models, leave the other 200 on a shelf....

As a player, I'm trying to not become more cynical about GW than i currently am, i try to pretty much ignore rumors, and just focus on what comes out.

As a retailer, i look at thousands of dollars in ultra slow selling fantasy models and books, and try to have hope.

I'll play a new skirmish game, just don't think it will be a replacement for WFB any more than Mordheim is.

Mikhaila, I always enjoy your input as you come at these releases from your own business perspective. I wanted to ask you what you think about this possible skirmish-acation of Fantasy and how it may improve/worsen sales? (if you have *any* idea about something so far out!)

 namiel wrote:
if the old character died in the end times he won't be coming back so pretty much everyone.

I'd just like to point out that sucked into a Chaos rift =/= dead.

 Platuan4th wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle.

Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.

You could do that with every single miniature game that I know of. Just cut the cardboard to the size of the appropriate base, and voilá, instant "models" for every single miniature game in existence.

Except that WHFB uses TLOS and thus can't be done with chits. You'd need cardboard standees at least. Also, individual cardboard bases would be exceedingly fiddly vs KoW's set units that never shrink.

LOL, TLOS is your main reason?

tlos means nothing - it depends on how you pose the model and people can easily cheat it by basing their models standing on top of a pile of rocks. it is really just a lame gimmick.

Every new rumor sounds like GW copies the concept of LotR 1:1 to Warhammer.

 streamdragon wrote:

 namiel wrote:

if the old character died in the end times he won't be coming back so pretty much everyone.

all done WITHOUT invalidating the minis you already own.

These two statements can, quite literally, not both be true.

"Oh this 'Korhil, Captain of the White Lions' miniature? I'm using him now as 'Laegnir, Champion of the Upper Glade."

"Ah these 'Chaos marauder' cavalry? These are now 'Realm Irregular Horse.'"

etc.

 kodos wrote:
Every new rumor sounds like GW copies the concept of LotR 1:1 to Warhammer.

Which would be awesome in just about every way! Pretty sure it won't pan out quite like that, but if it did, there's a very good chance I'd be in.

 mikhaila wrote:
Well, without invalidating models, except for:


-Models you won't use because it's a skirmish game with far less figures, so rebase 20 models, leave the other 200 on a shelf....
.

You can build 10 armies then

All joking aside, skirmish will never replace WFB, it can add an extra layer of fun to mass battle gaming... but on its own ,will literally fall short.

Disappointed that there are no relevant news by now... New Visions has nothing on WFB or LOTR either. So, well, the wait and see mode will carry on.

Hastings on old warseer has said that the Genestealer and DW forces might , might be in a box like the recent Assassins release.

Not sure where it should go but I don't see it mentioned anywhere else

 Paradigm wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Every new rumor sounds like GW copies the concept of LotR 1:1 to Warhammer.

Which would be awesome in just about every way! Pretty sure it won't pan out quite like that, but if it did, there's a very good chance I'd be in.

Only if they also keep the LotR rules, but I am sure they find a way to mix the worst from both together and create a game that is not playable without a lot of house rules

 NAVARRO wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Well, without invalidating models, except for:


-Models you won't use because it's a skirmish game with far less figures, so rebase 20 models, leave the other 200 on a shelf....
.

You can build 10 armies then

All joking aside, skirmish will never replace WFB, it can add an extra layer of fun to mass battle gaming... but on its own ,will literally fall short.

Disappointed that there are no relevant news by now... New Visions has nothing on WFB or LOTR either. So, well, the wait and see mode will carry on.

At this stage I feel sorry for any stores carrying WHFB, sales must really be dwindling with no one knowing what the hell is going on.

The best thing ever associated with the WHFB setting was the Mordheim game.

Anything that moves this bloated mess of a game more towards that is a good thing, and it might just get me buying fantasy models again after many, many, many, many long years...

As i've said many times, I am excited for this "new" game, but only as I have no current WHFB investment. I empathize with its old fans, but am still excited.

I ended up becoming a big Kings of War fan, when I had the desire to start WHFB, and felt really good about the choice. It gave me clean rules, and a chance to buy the GW models I was absolutely head over heels in love with.

This, however, feels perfect. I LOVE hearing rumors of a resemblance to LotR which I feel was GWs best rule-set ever, and a lower model count means I might actually feel like buying all GW models would be cost-viable, something I never EVER entertained when thinking of WHFB.

Thing is with effectively scrapping whfb and making it like lotr, remember lotr failed.

It wasnt because of the models which were as good as whfb
it wasnt because of the setting which is as good or better than whfb, and since whfb has destroyed its setting anyway this is irrelevant.
so it must have been because the majority disliked the rules

So making whfb rules like lotr is a move in the wrong direction

zacharia wrote:
Thing is with effectively scrapping whfb and making it like lotr, remember lotr failed.

It wasnt because of the models which were as good as whfb
it wasnt because of the setting which is as good or better than whfb, and since whfb has destroyed its setting anyway this is irrelevant.
so it must have been because the majority disliked the rules

So making whfb rules like lotr is a move in the wrong direction

The main problem with Skirmish LotR was how borked the combat system was. A single D6 roll off with ties always going to the higher Fight Value. Add in how broken the named characters could easily get, (like Aragorn and his 'free' Might point per turn), and you basically had a game where Fight 3, (supposedly your 'average' skill level), was completely pointless.

The two big problems with War of the Ring was that the Magic system was OP as all hell, and the army lists were just simply insane! The combos you could pull from Epic Heroes make the likes of 7th ed Daemons look super tame!
I fondly remember how at the local GW, when all us staff were going through our store copy rulebook ahead of the release itself, our manager created a list with all 3 Elf heroes with the Epic Shot ability... in a single turn he managed to machine gun down 3 Mumaks!
Then there was the Amdur + Saruman + The Betrayer combo I pulled out... 8 dudes managed to wipe out 70+ Goblins in a single combat round, for only 2 Might pts.

WotR was simply unplayable unless you outright banned the Epic Heroes, (or certain ones and then put in a hard 0-1 limit), banned certain abilities altogether, (Epic Shot & Rampage were plain stupid), AND, re-worked the magic rules.

Or it was because of the massive price increase and not existing support. And at my local club are still more people playing LotR than 8th edition but we always played without epic heroes.

zacharia wrote:
Thing is with effectively scrapping whfb and making it like lotr, remember lotr failed.

It wasnt because of the models which were as good as whfb
it wasnt because of the setting which is as good or better than whfb, and since whfb has destroyed its setting anyway this is irrelevant.
so it must have been because the majority disliked the rules

So making whfb rules like lotr is a move in the wrong direction

LotR failed because of an exaggerated version of GW's business model gone amok, not so much the lack of players, or enthusiasm. New Line Cinema is apparently as vile of a company as GW, and their mutually insane demands, license-fees, and other "requirements" meant that GW was getting treated the way they normally treat their customers. :-p

As such, they paid-it-forward, by pricing the game right out of the market, and deciding the game was more trouble that its worth. Their "suicide" of the game was by stopping proper rules from being written, and eventually just treating it not as a game, but as a model release.

Essentially, it was a prototype for WHFB, even then. :-p

LOTR died as a viable game for me, generally when they halved the models in the boxes, while increased the prices by 50%.

Hey wait... That does sound familiar...

Yeah, LotR would still be going strong if GW actually gave a gak about it. Instead, prices gave gone up about 300% in the case of the newest stuff, half the stuff that could have been released wasn't (or was, but in 3-for-£15 Finecast sets they expected you to build armies from) and half the original range and rules are more OOP.

The rules were never even a factor in the fall of LotR from GWs best product to the third wheel in the GW lineup.

 Bottle wrote:
I'm looking forward to the skirmish game! Im hoping my Empire become even more wacky and grim dark too

New unit which will basically be good warriors if chaos. sigmars super troops. expect them to be pretty good infantry

 namiel wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I'm looking forward to the skirmish game! Im hoping my Empire become even more wacky and grim dark too

New unit which will basically be good warriors if chaos. sigmars super troops. expect them to be pretty good infantry

I'm not really looking forward to the fantasy space marines all that much. I am more anticipating what the regular humans will become. Hopefully something weird and wacky. Flying renaissance windmills or something :p

 Accolade wrote:
[

Mikhaila, I always enjoy your input as you come at these releases from your own business perspective. I wanted to ask you what you think about this possible skirmish-acation of Fantasy and how it may improve/worsen sales? (if you have *any* idea about something so far out!)

Games sell for a few reasons: 1) Gameplay 2) Models 3) Background 4) all your mates are playing it.

So why will people want to play a skirmish version of WFB:

1) It could be fun. A lot of us love Mordheim. Will we all play the game and love the gameplay, balance, scenarios, leagues, tournaments? Depends a lot on the rules. I remember loving AdeptusTitanicus/SpaceMarine even with it's flaws. I hated Epic when they changed the entire system. Models were better, no one liked the gameplay. Very much like an avalon hill game with chits. It died. Quality of gameplay matters. we like to have fun.

2) Lots of love for our WFB models. Do we still get to use them? GW has cut out 2/3 of the WFB line from my shop. Nearly no blisters, meager amounts of boxes. Is this because the new game takes only a few generic figures? Or will we see a lot of new stuff come out? Can we use our old models?A new version of WFB where i can't use my old WFB models is not WFB.

3) They just killed all the old characters and burnt the world. If new world is a generic bubbleverse, how is it better from any other companies game? I find Malifaux and Privateer to have wonderfully detailed worlds. WFB had a unique world with a huge amount of character to it. Losing it will piss people off. A generic world with new fluff will not go over well.

4) No matter how much i love a game, I'm not playing it by myself. Good games grow in players, bad one die and nothing you can do can revive them. If your friends aren't playing a game, how soon do you quit buying models for it?

So i'll be watching the rest of YOU to see how well I can sell the new warhammer, and remaining stock that GW hasn't taken away from me. If YOU are all excited and want to play, i'll be selling a lot more models. Running leagues and tournaments, supporting the game. If the players don't care, and no one buys it, I am not going to jumping up and down like some GW Cheerleader. I supported GW for decades because we all loved the game and models. Tougher to do that now, and if WFB doesn't sell well, i can't bank my head on the wall to make it sell. I'll go support another game.

Right now, most stores are barely selling any WFB. End times is done. People buy some models that they want to paint. No one is building new armies or units with the possibility they never get to use them. I've had more LOTR played in my shop lately than WFB. Hell, i've had more games of 28mm Japanese vs English, or 15mm vietnam, or Celts vs romans, than i have had WFB played lately.

Which is an interesting point that retailers talk about lately. We don't need GW. Used to be GW was the king. Outsold all other games combined 10 to 1. Go back far enough and there really aren't other games. GW was to stores then what Magic is now.

But now stores and players have Magic, a huge number of good boardgames, Warmahordes, Boltaction, Malifaux, Flames of War, and dozens of other games. (And check out the link at top of the page if you need another good game) Many stores don't carry GW now, some are thinking of dropping it.

The ball is in GW's court. Up to them to make a good game that you all want to play. That's going to determine whether stores pony up the thousands of dollars to stock it, or toss their remaining stock to ebay and move on.

I desperately hope that it's a good game. Both for my store, and my gamers, but also for me personally. Will I be able to take a Toad Dragon in skirmish games?

 mikhaila wrote:
Well, without invalidating models, except for:



-Models you won't use because they aren't in the new lists....

So they won't invalidate models, except for all the units they invalidate...

 streamdragon wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Well, without invalidating models, except for:



-Models you won't use because they aren't in the new lists....

So they won't invalidate models, except for all the units they invalidate...

I can see it happening along with the official comment " you can still use your discontinued unit as a count as for a supported one."


Nice post Mikhaila
As for the comment "Quality of gameplay matters. " I have the a bad feeling about this one I really do, specially with the leaflet rumor floating around. Will WFB for the first time swap places with other companies? I mean, will we buy the wonderful WFB models to use for other games? Usually its the opposite.