Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan

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**OgreChubbs**

I love GW games and played them all even got the psp bloodbowl and the pc version right from shadow of the hornder rat. But there is no point in freaking out over change.They will change them if you like it or not buy them keep playing if you like them if not move on.

Think of it like all your other toys and friendships. You had a good time together and as you got older you grew apart you still have good memories of the past but thats all it is a past memorie. So if GW moving away from what you like be glad for the time you had and move on. btw there always retro gamers who you can play old games with.

**warboss**

Vulcan wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
Clearly you don't understand people, as the discussion is not if people buy things or not, but whether GW tailor rules to encourage said behaviour.

I'm pretty sure we're all aware we're not obligated to buy anything, but I guess it never hurts to have someone bumbling around stating the blindingly obvious.
which is my point who cares you like them get them if not then don't who cares if you keep playing no love lost. GW makes rules they like and again your not obligated to buy them. So again a pointless topic, like them or not they are what they are.

OUR point is that we liked the game and would like to see it done properly and not as an adjunct to selling toys.

It's clear you don't like GW games. At which point, I do have to ask why you're trolling on a forum DEDICATED to GW games. Perhaps YOUR time might be better spent on other forums rather than here complaining that we like GW games but don't like the direction they're going right now.

While I think he's needlessly aggressive and stubborn, the counterpoint isn't really that you don't want it as an adjunct to selling toys. It's always since the beginning been an adjunct to selling toys. The difference is that over the past few years that the drive to sell the toys has been increased significantly specifically at the expense of the game itself and the community (slowly but consistently) is responding.

**Thraxas Of Turai**

I do not know if this is a store wide thing or just limited to my local GW (GW Coventry, England). But they have had a move around and Fantasy is now the first thing slap bang in your face when you walk in the shop. Previously it was new releases first with Fantasy stuck at the back. The new releases are now in the middle of the store whilst 40k is at the back.

Whether this is indicative of just trying to promote fantasy generally, or in preparation for the new game/starter set I do not know. Any other experiences like this?

**Azreal13**

That's pretty standard retail strategy, you place the things people buy most somewhere which means they have to walk past other items that you'd like to get more attention.

It could be indicative of a push on Fantasy, but is probably more likely the result of a competent manager or somebody at HO.

**Fayric**

Azreal13 wrote:
That's pretty standard retail strategy, you place the things people buy most somewhere which means they have to walk past other items that you'd like to get more attention.

It could be indicative of a push on Fantasy, but is probably more likely the result of a competent manager or somebody at HO.

I know it works for ordinary grocery stores, but for GW?
How many people walk in to the store and dont even know if they want to get a fantasy or 40k kit?
I dont know how the standard consumer do, but I rarely just throw in an extra fanatsy box just for the heck of it on my way to the register.
Besides, because GW even remove the least seling stuf from the stores, Id say this sales tactic is all but unknown to the company.

**Azreal13**

It costs GW essentially nothing, if it works once in 1000 sales, it's worth doing.

**HairySticks**

Ofcourse its worth doing ~ You have the ever popular 40k range, in particular the space marines. Theyre riiiight at the back, so that you must see everythign else on offer on your way to them. This will make more people aware of the other products and spark interest.

As Azreal13 said, once in 1000 times for this to work is worth it ~ unless it is so hard to find the popular items that no one even tries to look anymore.

Although GW are a bit special ~ the price point of their items does prohibit impulse buys for most people. The vast majority of their returning customers know what they want before they even went in, and likely ordered for instore collection. I'd bet most of their sales come from that now ~ since the stock is limited within the store, unless you want the shiny new thing theres no guarantee it will be instock unless you order it especially. While back in the 90's I often did go browse blister packs and pick whatever i fancied painting that week on a whim, GW dont have any items that really fall into that price range anymore.

**Boss Salvage**

Fayric wrote:
How many people walk in to the store and dont even know if they want to get a fantasy or 40k kit?

There was a time when I would happily impulse buy a $10 blister or $20 armybook every week at the game store, just because I had picked up a few comics and why not? Of course that was a long time ago, given where the Dub's prices sit currently, and now my impulse money goes to Infinity / Malifaux

- Salvage

**Herzlos**

Fayric wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
That's pretty standard retail strategy, you place the things people buy most somewhere which means they have to walk past other items that you'd like to get more attention.

It could be indicative of a push on Fantasy, but is probably more likely the result of a competent manager or somebody at HO.

I know it works for ordinary grocery stores, but for GW?
How many people walk in to the store and dont even know if they want to get a fantasy or 40k kit?
I dont know how the standard consumer do, but I rarely just throw in an extra fanatsy box just for the heck of it on my way to the register.
Besides, because GW even remove the least seling stuf from the stores, Id say this sales tactic is all but unknown to the company.

There are plenty of price-insensitive customers that just come in for something cool to paint, who could easily spot a fantasy box to buy that they'd never see if they only looked at the new stuff. Lots of GW stores already do this anyway.

The only downside to this approach is if the new stuff is so far back it puts people off.

**bubber**

Stores also switch stock around so, for people familiar to a shop & know what they want to buy, they still have to go searching for it when they change things around. That way you're more likely to impulse buy something rather then just pick up what you went in to the store to pick up in the 1st place.

**kodos**

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/05/wfb-9th-roundup-the-trinity-of-warhammer.html

MarcusBeli translated a number of entries removed from the Pacific Ocean:
Basically, it says that it is a rumor, we did not believe it. More or less, a translation.

9th edition rules will not be the big leap was the passage of 7th-8th.
There will be 3 versions of warhammer. The era of Sigmar , recommended to play 500-1500 points and will be a skirmish style game. The era of steel , will be warhammer as we played the last five years. The end of time , magic and 50% to sack commanders and heroes (and know of undeath).
Power dice are based 2d6 (4d6 ET) to 2000 points and another die for every 1000 points, so that playing at 4000 points 4d6 winds of magic would throw (6d6 ET)
Many new spells, although all # 6 allow special salvations
New magical items. Some leave, new ones arrive.
The measure of 8th remain
Regeneration works like a hydra of war. Minis dead back with a single wound to 4+ (I think that carriers just won Warhammer)
Lances make impact hits
+1 Strength spears against mounted units
Always attack first change. Charging units obtained ASP against the charging unit.
Fear as now, but checks are ld -1, -2 terror is ld (battle standards remain unbalanced)
Lethal blow does 1d3 wounds
Death Strike continues heroic killing all
Characters riding monsters have combined profile (which I assume is because the guns were still yelling at them “10 um in the back!”)
Impassivity can be lost with a single row of 5 on the sidewall. Units can not be unmoved against anything that might make thunderous slam.
2d6 scenarios and a table of far greater land
The minis lose half its load roll away if they pass spot (I think it is a simplification of the rules of land 7th) but dangerous ground remains in effect (1s to hurt the minis that make checking)
Building new rules, although still look bad
Combat resolution – numerical superiority again
Table quadrants have also returns.

We’ll have to wait to see if the rumors are verified at the moment I do not excite me much !!!
Last and not least I have a friend in Nottingham who left rods with no man …. no, this is serious. I said my confidence shopkeeper had informed him from the official store of GW Valencia will have two weekends red coming week.
Recall that for the purposes of red GW week is the usual way to warn shopkeepers GW of which will have a weekend with many sales due to a special event such as the launch of a special product.
Thus dependent they not know what is coming but if they have to prepare for that something big is about to arrive. Well, so red are scheduled one week for the month of May and another for June.

better translation:

- the 9th edition rules aren't going to be the big jump that moving from 7th edition to 8th was.
- there are going to be 3 versions of Warhammer. The Age of Sigmar - recommended for point totals 500 to 1,500 and will be a skirmish style game. The Age of Steel - Warhammer as we all played it over the last 5 years. The End Times - magic heavy and 50% lords & heroes (and Lore of Undeath).
- power dice are now a base of 2D6 (4D6 for End Times) up to 2,000 points, add another power dice for every 1,000 points after that so fielding a 4,000 point army would roll 4D6 Winds of Magic or 6D6 in the End Times.
- lots of new spells though the #6 spells all allow Ward Saves
- new magic items. Some went away, some new ones arrived.
- 8th edition measuring still exists
- Regeneration now works like a War Hydra, dead models come back with a single wound on a 4+ (I think Plaguebearers just won Warhammer)
- Lances do impact his on the charge
- Spears are +1ST if they hold against "mounted units"
- ASF has changed. Units that charge get ASF vs the unit they charge.
- Fear as now but tests are at -1 leadership, Terror at -2 (BSBs are still OP)
- Killing Blow does D3 wounds
- Heroic Killing Blow still kills everything
- characters riding monsters have a merged profile (which I presume is why cannons are still going shout '10 from the back!'...)
- Steadfast can be lost with a single rank of 5 in the flank. Units cannot be Steadfast against anything that can Thunderstomp them
- 2D6 Scenarios and a much broader terrain chart
- models lose half their charge roll distance if they clip terrain (think of it as toned down 7th edition terrain rules) though dangerous terrain is still in effect (1s to wound for models that take dangerous terrain tests)
- new building rules though they still look bad
- combat resolution - outnumbering is back
- holding table quarters is back too

**Kirasu**

Pretty good.. Looks like a big rollback of the dumbest 8th ed changes to combat resolution (IE steadfast)

**Ozymandias**

Well it sounds like the sky isn't falling after all. Will be interested to see the "Age of Sigmar" rules.

**Delicate Swarm**

Color me impressed if those rumors are true. Splitting the system into multiple rules sets is precisely what I've said they should do for years.

A Skirmish rule set, good for getting into the game due to the low model count, a "normal" Rule set, large scale but streamlined for playability, and an "Unbound" Ruleset where everything is crazy.

Hope that turns out to be true.

Also, "Age of Sigmar" sounds like it takes place in the past, not the future. Does this mean all the Bubble dimension stuff was false?

**Flashman**

That doesn't sound awful.

And so all armies aren't invalidated after all?

Bet GW are probably wondering why nobody is buying Fantasy at the moment.

Edit - And if the end bit of End Times hasn't happened yet, is that going to get retconned?

**Swastakowey**

Sounds kind of meh really. I dont know if this will change the face of Fantasy like the end times had hyped everyone up for.

**His Master's Voice**

Delicate Swarm wrote:
Also, "Age of Sigmar" sounds like it takes place in the past, not the future. Does this mean all the Bubble dimension stuff was false?

A bunch of generic human warriors backed by some dwarves and elves here and there seems like it could fit both the time of Sigmar as well as the bubblehammer. Maybe it's a case of crossed wires.

I do like the fact that that a flank manoeuvre might be meaningful again.

**Bottle**

These rumors sound good.

**Flashman**

All I want is some kind of assurance that the entire model range isn't going to be wound down so I can go back to pillaging it for Mordheim pieces

**Yodhrin**

Swastakowey wrote:
Sounds kind of meh really. I dont know if this will change the face of Fantasy like the end times had hyped everyone up for.

You say "hyped up for", a lot of us say "horrified at the prospect of".

At this point I don't know what to believe, because this sounds exactly like the only scenario people could think of in which people who despised the whole End Times nonsense could continue to enjoy the game, and more importantly the setting we liked(that being a Storm of Chaos-style climbdown by GW on the fluff side of things), which makes me suspicious this is just wishlisting from the Disgruntled faction. If true though; brilliant.

**Accolade**

Curiouser and curiouser.

I wonder how negatively WHFB sales have been impacted by GW's insistence on not ever addressing possible upcoming changes. Is anyone noticing or are they just going to offset this by raising the prices of future kits?

**Swastakowey**

Yodhrin wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Sounds kind of meh really. I dont know if this will change the face of Fantasy like the end times had hyped everyone up for.

You say "hyped up for", a lot of us say "horrified at the prospect of".

At this point I don't know what to believe, because this sounds exactly like the only scenario people could think of in which people who despised the whole End Times nonsense could continue to enjoy the game, and more importantly the setting we liked(that being a Storm of Chaos-style climbdown by GW on the fluff side of things), which makes me suspicious this is just wishlisting from the Disgruntled faction. If true though; brilliant.

Hyped is probably the wrong word, I mean my Lizards are now in space...

But now we all know how it ends, simply rewinding it wont get rid of the fact I know where my lizards end up (in space... via flying pyramid). It will never be on the edge again. They should have at least improved the game or done something. Otherwise it was all a waste of time really.

Dont know, not excited by it so far. Just another edition with 40k game styles (kill team, normal and apocalypse with different names).

**Micky**

I dunno.. that rumour is very very.. wishlisty.

**Kavish**

Hopefully GW will realise the impact their secrecy has on sales and open up a bit. OR maybe they leak this stuff on purpose in order to see what we say. Were they just testing the waters, and when we didn't like the new direction they changed the plan?

**silent25**

Micky wrote:
I dunno.. that rumour is very very.. wishlisty.

Some of those rumors showed up prior to 8th. Suspect someone dusted off some old ideas, added some more and threw them into the breeze to be caught up. Too bad, like some of them. Steadfast needs some toning down, but not sure I like what they are proposing.

**warboss**

If they make a nice file out of it then Fantasy can get its own pancake edition just like 40k!

**ORicK**

A skirmish style would be great.

But GW has one big problem on 28mm scale:
They just seem to be unable to understand that for a good skirmish game you need to activate per model or unit, not "i go, you go" for the whole army.

A game with fewer points does not make a skirmish game.
That will be just the same game for someone with less money and hopefully not enough information to know there might be better alternatives at skirmish scale.

Although Mordheim, Necromunda and IMO above all GorkaMorka were fun, they could have been good as well.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Micky wrote:
I dunno.. that rumour is very very.. wishlisty.

That was my first thought as well. These rumours actually sound reasonably good (if they can pull it off).

It's been my opinion for years that both WHFB and 40k need a tiered system. With something saying "These rules are recommended for under 1000pts, these rules are recommended for under 2500pts and these rules are recommended for over 2500pts, though you and your opponent can decide which set of rules to use".

But.... I'm still not buying a damned thing until we see/hear something more and something concrete. GW need to be beaten over the head for leaving the community hanging after the end times.

**Charles Rampant**

These rumours are quite pleasant - though pausing the fluff clock is a touch dull, the rest sound like the sort of thing that would cause mild shakeups in the army building sphere without completely ruining the game. Though I think I'd be tempted to add something to make Fast Cavalry worse, if only to annoy Dark Elf players! Whether they are believable or not is hard to say. We lack an essential piece of the puzzle: GW's intentions and views for Fantasy. Do they want to build the game up with easier access? Strip it back to save costs? Or simply keep the Status Quo and see whether it is a cycle that they can move out of naturally? We don't know which (if any) of these options are correct, and I suspect that we won't until that red date whotsit in July. There are a lot of compelling (especially from a business point of view) arguments to strip the game back to those six factions we were all discussing earlier: it seems like the main people standing to lose from it are current players. But GW, who have the numbers, might feel that 16 Army Books + (potential) Supplements* is too valuable a revenue stream to lose. And so it goes.

Because of all this, it truly is hard to make any good judgement calls on a given set of rumours, until we start seeing photographs or other evidence beyond some translated snippets.

* Interesting thought experiment: does Fantasy lend itself to Supplements? Cult of Khaine is a logical one, but I think that many armies are already so niche that there doesn't seem to be much space to create alternatives within that niche.

**HobbyBox**

Delicate Swarm wrote:
Also, "Age of Sigmar" sounds like it takes place in the past, not the future. Does this mean all the Bubble dimension stuff was false?

This also has me super excited, though I'm not sure if this will be in the past or the future. Could go either way. Looking at the end of the Archaon book

Spoiler:

If it is bouncing back to the past, I may end up spending a good amount of money. I thoroughly enjoy the Time of Legends books with Sigmar and it would be smart for them to mine that portion of the IP and actually put it into the game. If this is where the rumored 6 factions come from, I think it will be:

1. Early Empire
2. Orcs and Goblins
3. Warriors of Chaos
4. Beastmen
5. Dwarfs
6. Undead

That covers the main factions that Sigmar fought against/with in his novels, with the small exception of Skaven, which popped up in a few places but were never a focus.

I think I would prefer it goes back to the past, but it would make more sense for them to use the Skirmish game to lay the ground work for the future, especially if that is what will be focused upon with the most amount of model releases and everything.

Granted, I'm still taking this with a heaping amount of salt, because as others said this seems fairly wish-listy. But, if this is true, I'm really happy with where it is going and excited again for the future. I just wish GW was in front of this and was giving us a bit more of this information straight off, instead of killing their WHFB sales (no matter how meager they are) by holding things so close to the vest.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Charles Rampant wrote:
* Interesting thought experiment: does Fantasy lend itself to Supplements? Cult of Khaine is a logical one, but I think that many armies are already so niche that there doesn't seem to be much space to create alternatives within that niche.

It does if they do what was rumored at times and lump a bunch of the books together. For example, release an Elves army book that has rules for all Elves with core units and various special characters. Then, they go through and release supplements as needed, so your Dark Elves and Wood Elves. Then they could break it down more and do Cult of Slaanesh, Cult of Khaine. Same would be with Undead, then do a breakout with Tomb Kings and could do something with Vampire Counts and release a few more Vampire specific units (the von Carsteins).

If they grouped together humans, they could then release a supplement for Brets, and also a supplement for Cult of Sigmar which would include Flagellants and so on.

Not sure I would enjoy that and it would be quite a money grab, but it might open them up to expanding stuff a bit more for moving into future editions. And I'm not sure they will want to do that amount of expansion with WHFB as in 40K they are going crazy with the amount of new factions and supplements they are releasing.