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2015/06/19 11:21:11
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
Milhaila can correct me if I'm wrong but people!e going to a MtG release and dropping their nerd budget there probably won't be looking into a GW game that nobody knew anything about until the previous week.
"Hmm, I can spend money on this product that is regularly supported and I know a large number of people play OR I can potentially throw it all out the window on something that the company who produces it obviously doesn't care enough about to even advertise.....whatever will I do with my limited resources?".
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2015/06/19 11:37:30
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
agnosto wrote: Milhaila can correct me if I'm wrong but people!e going to a MtG release and dropping their nerd budget there probably won't be looking into a GW game that nobody knew anything about until the previous week.
"Hmm, I can spend money on this product that is regularly supported and I know a large number of people play OR I can potentially throw it all out the window on something that the company who produces it obviously doesn't care enough about to even advertise.....whatever will I do with my limited resources?".
You're funny. MTG players having limited resources. I thought I spent a lot of money on my hobby until I saw a bunch of MTG players drop more on cards than I do on TTG in a quarter and that was their weekly budget.
[/sarcasm]
2015/06/19 11:40:16
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
agnosto wrote: Milhaila can correct me if I'm wrong but people!e going to a MtG release and dropping their nerd budget there probably won't be looking into a GW game that nobody knew anything about until the previous week.
"Hmm, I can spend money on this product that is regularly supported and I know a large number of people play OR I can potentially throw it all out the window on something that the company who produces it obviously doesn't care enough about to even advertise.....whatever will I do with my limited resources?".
You're funny. MTG players having limited resources. I thought I spent a lot of money on my hobby until I saw a bunch of MTG players drop more on cards than I do on TTG in a quarter and that was their weekly budget.
The difference...
I played MTG for years... Then I sold my cards last year... Lots of mythics, foils and original duals, besides really rare cards... Made a LOT and I MEAN A LOT of money!
I buy GW products... Want to sold them... Win a few bucks :S
2015/06/19 11:54:13
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
agnosto wrote: Milhaila can correct me if I'm wrong but people!e going to a MtG release and dropping their nerd budget there probably won't be looking into a GW game that nobody knew anything about until the previous week.
"Hmm, I can spend money on this product that is regularly supported and I know a large number of people play OR I can potentially throw it all out the window on something that the company who produces it obviously doesn't care enough about to even advertise.....whatever will I do with my limited resources?".
It's not so much a competition for dollars (though that is always a factor) as it is a competition for space. Most of the LGS I frequent can and often do fill the entire store with a MtG pre-release. There is unlikely going to be any space even available to have a display table/demo for AoS. I'm sure my experience isn't an outlier (though maybe GW hasn't considered the LGS or North America at all in this decision).
Shying away from a date because it is the release date of a competing product isn't always a good idea in all industries, but when you're talking niche markets that require table space, it's definitely worth considering.
agnosto wrote: Milhaila can correct me if I'm wrong but people!e going to a MtG release and dropping their nerd budget there probably won't be looking into a GW game that nobody knew anything about until the previous week.
"Hmm, I can spend money on this product that is regularly supported and I know a large number of people play OR I can potentially throw it all out the window on something that the company who produces it obviously doesn't care enough about to even advertise.....whatever will I do with my limited resources?".
You're funny. MTG players having limited resources. I thought I spent a lot of money on my hobby until I saw a bunch of MTG players drop more on cards than I do on TTG in a quarter and that was their weekly budget.
You took that statement too literal. They obviously don't have enough money for MtG AND a new version of fantasy, or whatever AoS will be, so, will they dump all the money they have the day of release on MtG, a known or spend the money they have budgeted for MtG that day on AoS? That was my point. Personally, I wouldn't come to a MtG event and spend my $300 on GW but maybe I'm crazy.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2015/06/19 12:09:22
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
WotC gives info to store owners and it's hugely popular. Store owner buys lots of Magic to stock. GW releases new edition/board game/novel/birthday cake recipe on the same day as a new Magic release without giving any information. 99.9% of store owners will take the safe bet on that one. I didn't realize it was a Magic release weekend. GW actually lives in its little bubblehammer universe, doesn't it?
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2015/06/19 12:45:22
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
Formosa wrote: This magic you guys are talking about, is it the new magic phase of aos? No? Yeah, general discussion I think
I'd say whether releasing AoS on a major release weekend for Magic and the subsequent debate as to whether either game is sufficiently large to impact the other is, in the absence of any hard info, as close to topic we'll be getting.
So, I'll allow it! (As it seems everyone and their dog feels free to moderate this thread.)
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
That's because it's not news or a rumour, however I see what your saying, talking about how it will impact warhammer may be pertinent.
It won't impact the vets at all, if they want it, they will get it, the newbs that have already bought into the game won't be affected either as they will likely already know about it, walk ins however will defo be affected, they will see hordes of magic players and a few fantasy players as magic seems to be more popular everywhere I've been flgs wise.
2015/06/19 13:03:07
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
If GW was smart enough, they would make a HUGE publicity on each store regarding AoS.
This would bring some players from MTG to AoS
This was how I started playing this... I was always a MTG player and then left it some years to play this... Then left this to play again MTG and left it again to start playing this when EoT started... Now I dunno if I will be back to some of these games ever
2015/06/19 13:14:48
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
Changing release dates to avoid competition conflicts is very common. Look at movies. Plenty of blockbuster movies get delayed weeks or months based on other huge movies that announced release dates that were originally going to be used.
Star Wars moved from being summer films to Christmas films because they know what's in the pipeline and don't want to have competition for those weekends. You think Disney wanted to go head to head with Jurassic World(which is doing insanely well) or Mad Max? No. Instead they saw that the winter releases weren't nearly as big and opted to change the release to that time, even though the movie is done and sitting on a shelf waiting to be shipped out.
I'd say the problems here are a few things:
1. GW doesn't think they actually have competition, in any form. They think anyone who plays their games has money for their games that WILL be spent on GW product and nothing else. It's like they assume no players have other things competing for their money, like card games, video games, food, rent...
2. GW is likely clueless about the releases of other games and systems because they do zero market research, and those games don't exist in their stores. They don't keep track of what other games LGS's stock and what major events or releases those stores have lined up that might interfere with a release GW has planned. As such, they just assume if they stock GW games then they have the time/space/resources to host events and expect great turnout.
That second part could easily be mitigated if their sales reps bothered gathering info from store owners and working with them to get info out about a new release and give the stores the tools and info needed to help the success of a launch.
As we've seen with Mikhaila, they say less than nothing while still trying to gain sales.
I understand not wanting to bleed out all the info about a new release to the public so early, but surely LGS owners would gladly sign NDA's(which any store owner wouldn't dare breach for sake of losing their store) to be able to get the info needed to make a successful launch of a new product.
Hell, even at my local GW shop, after a few things released like the new paint line and misc other things, the manager admitted he knew about them 1-2 months ahead, and was able to plan store events and make veiled hints at things enough to garner interest. And he readily admitted he knew about it, but had NDA's to deal with, which I can respect.
So for, Age of Sigmar is nothing more than some blue cards on some shelves and some conflicting rumors. With less than a month until the release, that doesn't put much goodwill into whatever it will be.
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
2015/06/19 13:59:13
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
Part of GW's problem is they base all decisions on the UK model. If they think it works there, they figure it works everywhere. They sort of forget the whole think about different cultures and countries 100 times as big. They also seem to ignore how marketing works differently in different parts of the world. This starts to show in how many times they have tried to unroll stores across the USA and blanket it like the UK. They expand a bit, and then start retreating like the germans trying to take over russia in WW2.
In the UK, Magic the Gathering isn't as big. In the US it is huge, a behemoth that not only rivals GW at it's peak, but surpassed it years ago and has outsold any other game in history. Sales in 2012 were 25 million. Up over 20% in 2013 and more growth in 2014. 2015 is already big with ModernMasters2 leading the way. And while growth and profits are a great thing, lets look at some other things they do:
-Spent millions on a worldwide database of players and stores that is integrated with easy to use tournament software. Stores can enter players, hit a button and the software handles all pairings and at the end uploads info to wizards for player rankings.
-Supports thousands of tournaments each year with advertising and product support, up to national and world championships.
-Gives stores a large amount of freedom in running events and rewards those stores that give the most for their communities with more support from the company.
How i wish GW had done these things. Instead they now run zero events in the US.
This is why GW has competition from MTG. WOTC supports stores heavily. For this pre-release they'll send me many boxes of free packs to hand out as prizes, and the event is guaranteed profitable. It's advertised on their own websites and they drive players to stores. For many stores this is their main profit center. For 90% of stores it isn't even an option to choose whether to support MTG or GW, it's a no brainer. AoS will get chucked on a rack and they'll worry about it the next week.
In fact, every store may be doing just that. GW hasn't sent out demo sets for a long, long time. If they tell stores nothing until right before the release, and If we get in the games a day or two ahead of release, its a bit tough to get demo sets put together, and know enough about the game to run a demo or explain the rules. You will probably just see an open box and you can look at the sprues and thumb through a rulebook.
I wish Sigmar would just take a hammer to Kirby's head and then work his way down the company ladder until he find someone with a clue.
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
2015/06/19 15:09:24
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
The main problem with GW is that they take a strange bullish pride in not listening to or engaging with the fanbase in any meaningful way, they have been the undisputed kings for so long that they take it for granted. Its only recently that any real competition has begun to emerge, we can only hope it motivates them to actually start giving a gak again.
Actually testing their rulesets before release would be a good start.
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for just one day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
2015/06/19 15:10:53
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
mikhaila wrote: Part of GW's problem is they base all decisions on the UK model. If they think it works there, they figure it works everywhere. They sort of forget the whole think about different cultures and countries 100 times as big. They also seem to ignore how marketing works differently in different parts of the world. This starts to show in how many times they have tried to unroll stores across the USA and blanket it like the UK. They expand a bit, and then start retreating like the germans trying to take over russia in WW2.
In the UK, Magic the Gathering isn't as big. In the US it is huge, a behemoth that not only rivals GW at it's peak, but surpassed it years ago and has outsold any other game in history. Sales in 2012 were 25 million. Up over 20% in 2013 and more growth in 2014. 2015 is already big with ModernMasters2 leading the way. And while growth and profits are a great thing, lets look at some other things they do:
-Spent millions on a worldwide database of players and stores that is integrated with easy to use tournament software. Stores can enter players, hit a button and the software handles all pairings and at the end uploads info to wizards for player rankings.
-Supports thousands of tournaments each year with advertising and product support, up to national and world championships.
-Gives stores a large amount of freedom in running events and rewards those stores that give the most for their communities with more support from the company.
How i wish GW had done these things. Instead they now run zero events in the US.
This is why GW has competition from MTG. WOTC supports stores heavily. For this pre-release they'll send me many boxes of free packs to hand out as prizes, and the event is guaranteed profitable. It's advertised on their own websites and they drive players to stores. For many stores this is their main profit center. For 90% of stores it isn't even an option to choose whether to support MTG or GW, it's a no brainer. AoS will get chucked on a rack and they'll worry about it the next week.
In fact, every store may be doing just that. GW hasn't sent out demo sets for a long, long time. If they tell stores nothing until right before the release, and If we get in the games a day or two ahead of release, its a bit tough to get demo sets put together, and know enough about the game to run a demo or explain the rules. You will probably just see an open box and you can look at the sprues and thumb through a rulebook.
I wish Sigmar would just take a hammer to Kirby's head and then work his way down the company ladder until he find someone with a clue.
A sobering and excellent post and just shows the sheer cluelessness of the leadership. To get something basic so utterly wrong beggars belief. Also, this:
-Spent millions on a worldwide database of players and stores that is integrated with easy to use tournament software. Stores can enter players, hit a button and the software handles all pairings and at the end uploads info to wizards for player rankings.
-Supports thousands of tournaments each year with advertising and product support, up to national and world championships.
-Gives stores a large amount of freedom in running events and rewards those stores that give the most for their communities with more support from the company.
Imagine if GW did something like this along with a list of regularly updated FAQ's and recognised rules sources. Imagine how they'd be as an industry player and what the global "Eye of Terror" style campaigns would be like.
2015/06/19 15:29:07
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
Is MtG that big? I've only seen a handful of very odd people playing it at Manchesters premier stink pit, Fanboy3.
It's bigger than GW.
So is Pokémon, btw.
Edit for stats:
According to Motley Fool in 2014, MtG's direct revenue was around $250,000,000.00. Keep in mind, this is when their primary sales item is a pack of cards that sells for less than $5.00.
"Over the last five years, the Magic brand has grown annual revenue by 182%. That puts the brand's annual revenue somewhere close to $250 million, though Hasbro hasn't released an official figure."
... When will the world tire of miniatures? (It won’t; these are not fashion items, they are hobby
collectibles.) Won’t all your customers move on to computer games instead? (They didn’t; most of our current customers weren’t born
when the Atari ST came out.) How about other games like Pokémon or role-playing games? (Who can remember them, now?)...
-Spent millions on a worldwide database of players and stores that is integrated with easy to use tournament software. Stores can enter players, hit a button and the software handles all pairings and at the end uploads info to wizards for player rankings.
-Supports thousands of tournaments each year with advertising and product support, up to national and world championships.
-Gives stores a large amount of freedom in running events and rewards those stores that give the most for their communities with more support from the company.
Imagine if GW did something like this along with a list of regularly updated FAQ's and recognised rules sources. Imagine how they'd be as an industry player and what the global "Eye of Terror" style campaigns would be like.
If they invested the same amount of money that WotC invests on MTG, Warhammer/AoS would be a giant...
This way, is just an ant... Ok... Maybe an hamster...
MTG has a great business due to the creation of mythic cards, the ideas of planeswalkers and all the formats we can play (from pro tours qualifications, to national championship to even pauper).
And the singles that are sold at a HUGE price in the player market is a huge thing... There are individuals making a lot of money only on these sales... I used to spent 300 euros for month on MtG... This is a reason why I went back to Warhammer... I just need to update on new things every few years, instead of every three months :p
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/19 15:58:52
2015/06/19 16:09:43
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
Just going back to the topic of rumours concerning Age of Sigmar, I saw this on Faet and it sounds both a lot better and a lot more realistic/likely than the text block about Nigmos we've been arguing over:
We have seen a lot of information come through, and I have held a lot as well that came in to me directly, simply because I think there was a lot of guessing and reverb going on. Today I believe we may have a decent look at just what this game will be about, and a run down on some basics of game play and the feel of the game.
Please take this right now as rumor.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
I think players should be doing a bit more to give current players more info,
but as they don't seem to want to do that, I thought I'd weigh in with what
I know.
I had to be taught how the new game works in order to
teach it to potential players.
As this info comes from the intro game there may be some simplification of
the rules that I am unaware of, as you don't want to overload a newbie with
too much info.
Anyway, on with what I know:
Age of Sigmar offers a skirmish-level fantasy game, he did not know
whether it would be expanded to a mass-battle game later but he thought it
would.
Players take control over several small units, organised into loose groups.
The models are on round bases. He mentioned that at least at our location,
people can use square bases if they want to, in fact with the new
unit formation rules it might be slightly easier to use squares.
Units can choose how loose their units form up, either very loose (think
8th ed skirmisher loose) with benefits to movement and defense against
shooting, tight, or square.
Tight allows for more maneuvers than square, but is less maneuverable than
loose. However, if you receive a charge in tight formation you're better
off in CC than if you received it in Skirmish.
Square offers almost no maneuverability, you can only move slowly forward.
However, if you receive a charge in Square formation then you're better off
in CC than if you received it in Tight or Skirmish formation.
One of the units in the intro game (the Chosen of Sigmar) can elect to
change their formation when someone declares a charge against them as long
as they pass a Ld check (base Ld 8 so it's fairly easy, hero had Ld 9)
The only real benefit to receiving a charge in Skirmish formation (and
there are a ton of negatives - you don't get a bonus from your numbers,
only the models in base contact with the enemy can strike (see below), and
you can't parry) is that the enemy don't get the bonus for charging you in
your flank/rear, since the skirmish formation means you effectively don't
have any.
A lot of the base rules are the same as in 8th ed fantasy. The same
statline is there (M, WS, BS etc etc), armour works the same, shooting
takes similar penalties (long range, soft cover, shooting at skirmishers
etc), the difference is in the recommended level of play. CC works out in
much the same way, highest I goes first, units in base contact with either
an enemy model or a friendly model in base contact with an enemy model get
to strike, though only the former get to use all their attacks. Casualties
are removed from the back, as per usual. Different kinds of weapons
(halberds, spears, etc) and their associated bonuses weren't brought up
since the models involved only used hand weapons. Hand weapon + shield
still gives you a parry save though, as long as you received a charge (or
charged yourself) in tight or square formation, and the attacks weren't
coming from your flanks or rear.
GW is trying to push this to be played at the 1000-1500pt level. A lot of
focus was put on the heroes leading each force, and leaders will have more
impact on the game. Think LotR Strategy Battle Game and its Warband rules.
He implied that leaders in general will be more expensive, but have
more of an impact on the game. So a 1000pt force might be led by a 300pt
hero who is absolutely the core of the force, and if they die the rest of
the force is at a severe disadvantage. This goes double if the leader is
killed in a challenge by the enemy leader.
On a personal note, the game seemed...fun. The choice between different
types of formation provided a level of tactical flexibility that didn't
exist in the old game, but required more forward thinking. Do you start in
skirmish formation for more maneuverability, risking getting charged with
no bonuses from your numbers? Or do you form up Tight and split the
difference? Or do you make like a Dwarf and form up Square and just risk
getting outflanked? Also, when the two leaders got into a challenge in the
middle it was exciting - mine was faster but not as strong, hers was slower
but more likely to do lasting damage. We stopped before one leader killed
the other though.
Magic wasn't raised in the intro game, but once again I was told
it hasn't hugely changed. Only thing I should mention is that,
aside from some notable exceptions, wizards can't be leaders of a force.
On a background note - I was laughed at for about 10 straight minutes
when I told her about the rumours of "Waaaghkin" led by an all-female caste
of "Nigmos", though he was strangely silent when I mentioned Regalia.
From what little he did mention, the core races are all-but unchanged in their
basic background. Humanity is represented by the Empire, with the Chosen of
Sigmar being an auxiliary detachment that is often fielded alongside Empire
forces. Orcs and Goblins are there, nothing about 'Nigmos' or whatever.
Chaos is obviously there, in both Daemon and Warrior form, he didn't know
anything about Beastmen. Lizardmen weren't mentioned, neither were Skaven,
Elves were though. Elves are becoming a bit more like Space Marines in one
specific aspect - they're all one race, but differentiated on the grounds
of how they wage war, a bit like Chapter Tactics. High Elves will have 'Elf
Tactics' that reflect their training and drilling, Dark Elves will
have 'Elf Tactics' that reflect their cruelty and malice, and Wood Elves
will have 'Elf Tactics' that reflect their reliance on hit-and-run attacks.
I anticipate this means a single Elf book with basic troop units, some
specific units for each type of Elf, and the rest of the differences will
be in these 'Elf Tactics' and colour scheme etc.
I'm trying to remember anything else, the units were about 10-15 models
each. The Chaos forces were comprised of a unit of 10 warriors, 15
marauders, 5 warhounds, and the chaos leader. The Chosen of Sigmar (being
represented by Lizardmen models as the actual models are obviously
currently unavailable) had 15 'warriors of light', 10 'hunters' with
shortbows, and 10 'chosen', plus the leader.
It seemed a little unbalanced
in the Chosen's favour, but my manager said that when you're introducing
people to the game, although you let them pick, you talk up the Chosen more
so that they're more likely to pick them and be the good guy. That way,
although it looks fairly even, the Chosen have an advantage. Like other
intro games that have come before it, it is intended to provide 2 good,
though small, starting forces.
It was implied that both armies would
need 2-3 boxes of troops added to them to get them to 'average game' size.
This was obviously important because a key part of the intro game is not
only selling the intro box, but also upselling the customer to get a couple
more boxes for a bigger force.
Stat-line wise, though I wasn't told any specifics (this was more a matter
of 'Okay so the Warriors of Light are in close combat with the Marauders,
so you go first and hit on...') regarding statlines, this is a rough
breakdown:
- Warriors of Light are a halfway point between marauders and Chaos
Warriors, not as tough or as well armoured, but more skilled than
marauders, they were hitting marauders on 3s and saving wounds on a 4+
- Chosen are basically Chaos Warriors, same armour save, they were hit on a
4+ and wounded on a 4+ by Chaos Warriors, saving on a 4+
- Hunters are skirmishing bowmen, their only unique aspect is that I think
their bows are armour piercing. They were hitting stuff at long range
(range 24") on 5s, wounding Chaos Warriors on 5s, but Chaos Warriors with
shields were only saving on a 4+, instead of the 3+ they were saving on
against the Hunters in close combat.
- Leader of the Chosen was basically the Chosen's statline with +1 to
everything except Movement and Toughness. He had a sword that allowed him
to re-roll failed hits against Chaos things.
I am using the current statlines for Chaos Warriors, Marauders etc in these
estimations, and they are liable to change.
Anyway, that's all I can remember. I hope this is informative!
I've actually been fairly apathetic about Age of Sigmar (just because of the uncertainty) and was prepared to just stick to 6th edition in my closed gaming group, but this actually has enough potential to get me just a tiny bit excited. Maybe we'll end up using Age of Sigmar after all.
-Spent millions on a worldwide database of players and stores that is integrated with easy to use tournament software. Stores can enter players, hit a button and the software handles all pairings and at the end uploads info to wizards for player rankings.
-Supports thousands of tournaments each year with advertising and product support, up to national and world championships.
-Gives stores a large amount of freedom in running events and rewards those stores that give the most for their communities with more support from the company.
Imagine if GW did something like this along with a list of regularly updated FAQ's and recognised rules sources. Imagine how they'd be as an industry player and what the global "Eye of Terror" style campaigns would be like.
To go down the same road, imagine if GW developers were willing to engage with the community online like M:TG does. Their lead designer is active on Twitter, his own blog, and an official M:TG design blog. Just try to imagine a GW rules developer ever writing a column like this about army building: http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/303
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/19 16:20:16
2015/06/19 16:20:27
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
I actually had to google mtg thing to find out what it was lol. The closest gw store is one hour away. Closest store to buy mtg is 3 hours away so gw wins here
Editing here tablet submitted rather then jumped a line
For me it come to owning something i can show off use and feel like i own something. Gw gives me a model of varying sizes ect. Where as a pretty picture on a piece of paper give me very little. So a card game vs the item is one sidded.
Would you buy a oicture of a car for 20 bucks or buy the car for 20k. You can buy alot of picture for the same price but seems like a ripoff somehow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/19 16:26:04
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
2015/06/19 16:28:08
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
NWansbutter wrote: Just going back to the topic of rumours concerning Age of Sigmar, I saw this on Faet and it sounds both a lot better and a lot more realistic/likely than the text block about Nigmos we've been arguing over:
We have seen a lot of information come through, and I have held a lot as well that came in to me directly, simply because I think there was a lot of guessing and reverb going on. Today I believe we may have a decent look at just what this game will be about, and a run down on some basics of game play and the feel of the game.
Please take this right now as rumor.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
I think players should be doing a bit more to give current players more info,
but as they don't seem to want to do that, I thought I'd weigh in with what
I know.
I had to be taught how the new game works in order to
teach it to potential players.
As this info comes from the intro game there may be some simplification of
the rules that I am unaware of, as you don't want to overload a newbie with
too much info.
Anyway, on with what I know:
Age of Sigmar offers a skirmish-level fantasy game, he did not know
whether it would be expanded to a mass-battle game later but he thought it
would.
Players take control over several small units, organised into loose groups.
The models are on round bases. He mentioned that at least at our location,
people can use square bases if they want to, in fact with the new
unit formation rules it might be slightly easier to use squares.
Units can choose how loose their units form up, either very loose (think
8th ed skirmisher loose) with benefits to movement and defense against
shooting, tight, or square.
Tight allows for more maneuvers than square, but is less maneuverable than
loose. However, if you receive a charge in tight formation you're better
off in CC than if you received it in Skirmish.
Square offers almost no maneuverability, you can only move slowly forward.
However, if you receive a charge in Square formation then you're better off
in CC than if you received it in Tight or Skirmish formation.
One of the units in the intro game (the Chosen of Sigmar) can elect to
change their formation when someone declares a charge against them as long
as they pass a Ld check (base Ld 8 so it's fairly easy, hero had Ld 9)
The only real benefit to receiving a charge in Skirmish formation (and
there are a ton of negatives - you don't get a bonus from your numbers,
only the models in base contact with the enemy can strike (see below), and
you can't parry) is that the enemy don't get the bonus for charging you in
your flank/rear, since the skirmish formation means you effectively don't
have any.
A lot of the base rules are the same as in 8th ed fantasy. The same
statline is there (M, WS, BS etc etc), armour works the same, shooting
takes similar penalties (long range, soft cover, shooting at skirmishers
etc), the difference is in the recommended level of play. CC works out in
much the same way, highest I goes first, units in base contact with either
an enemy model or a friendly model in base contact with an enemy model get
to strike, though only the former get to use all their attacks. Casualties
are removed from the back, as per usual. Different kinds of weapons
(halberds, spears, etc) and their associated bonuses weren't brought up
since the models involved only used hand weapons. Hand weapon + shield
still gives you a parry save though, as long as you received a charge (or
charged yourself) in tight or square formation, and the attacks weren't
coming from your flanks or rear.
GW is trying to push this to be played at the 1000-1500pt level. A lot of
focus was put on the heroes leading each force, and leaders will have more
impact on the game. Think LotR Strategy Battle Game and its Warband rules.
He implied that leaders in general will be more expensive, but have
more of an impact on the game. So a 1000pt force might be led by a 300pt
hero who is absolutely the core of the force, and if they die the rest of
the force is at a severe disadvantage. This goes double if the leader is
killed in a challenge by the enemy leader.
On a personal note, the game seemed...fun. The choice between different
types of formation provided a level of tactical flexibility that didn't
exist in the old game, but required more forward thinking. Do you start in
skirmish formation for more maneuverability, risking getting charged with
no bonuses from your numbers? Or do you form up Tight and split the
difference? Or do you make like a Dwarf and form up Square and just risk
getting outflanked? Also, when the two leaders got into a challenge in the
middle it was exciting - mine was faster but not as strong, hers was slower
but more likely to do lasting damage. We stopped before one leader killed
the other though.
Magic wasn't raised in the intro game, but once again I was told
it hasn't hugely changed. Only thing I should mention is that,
aside from some notable exceptions, wizards can't be leaders of a force.
On a background note - I was laughed at for about 10 straight minutes
when I told her about the rumours of "Waaaghkin" led by an all-female caste
of "Nigmos", though he was strangely silent when I mentioned Regalia.
From what little he did mention, the core races are all-but unchanged in their
basic background. Humanity is represented by the Empire, with the Chosen of
Sigmar being an auxiliary detachment that is often fielded alongside Empire
forces. Orcs and Goblins are there, nothing about 'Nigmos' or whatever.
Chaos is obviously there, in both Daemon and Warrior form, he didn't know
anything about Beastmen. Lizardmen weren't mentioned, neither were Skaven,
Elves were though. Elves are becoming a bit more like Space Marines in one
specific aspect - they're all one race, but differentiated on the grounds
of how they wage war, a bit like Chapter Tactics. High Elves will have 'Elf
Tactics' that reflect their training and drilling, Dark Elves will
have 'Elf Tactics' that reflect their cruelty and malice, and Wood Elves
will have 'Elf Tactics' that reflect their reliance on hit-and-run attacks.
I anticipate this means a single Elf book with basic troop units, some
specific units for each type of Elf, and the rest of the differences will
be in these 'Elf Tactics' and colour scheme etc.
I'm trying to remember anything else, the units were about 10-15 models
each. The Chaos forces were comprised of a unit of 10 warriors, 15
marauders, 5 warhounds, and the chaos leader. The Chosen of Sigmar (being
represented by Lizardmen models as the actual models are obviously
currently unavailable) had 15 'warriors of light', 10 'hunters' with
shortbows, and 10 'chosen', plus the leader.
It seemed a little unbalanced
in the Chosen's favour, but my manager said that when you're introducing
people to the game, although you let them pick, you talk up the Chosen more
so that they're more likely to pick them and be the good guy. That way,
although it looks fairly even, the Chosen have an advantage. Like other
intro games that have come before it, it is intended to provide 2 good,
though small, starting forces.
It was implied that both armies would
need 2-3 boxes of troops added to them to get them to 'average game' size.
This was obviously important because a key part of the intro game is not
only selling the intro box, but also upselling the customer to get a couple
more boxes for a bigger force.
Stat-line wise, though I wasn't told any specifics (this was more a matter
of 'Okay so the Warriors of Light are in close combat with the Marauders,
so you go first and hit on...') regarding statlines, this is a rough
breakdown:
- Warriors of Light are a halfway point between marauders and Chaos
Warriors, not as tough or as well armoured, but more skilled than
marauders, they were hitting marauders on 3s and saving wounds on a 4+
- Chosen are basically Chaos Warriors, same armour save, they were hit on a
4+ and wounded on a 4+ by Chaos Warriors, saving on a 4+
- Hunters are skirmishing bowmen, their only unique aspect is that I think
their bows are armour piercing. They were hitting stuff at long range
(range 24") on 5s, wounding Chaos Warriors on 5s, but Chaos Warriors with
shields were only saving on a 4+, instead of the 3+ they were saving on
against the Hunters in close combat.
- Leader of the Chosen was basically the Chosen's statline with +1 to
everything except Movement and Toughness. He had a sword that allowed him
to re-roll failed hits against Chaos things.
I am using the current statlines for Chaos Warriors, Marauders etc in these
estimations, and they are liable to change.
Anyway, that's all I can remember. I hope this is informative!
I've actually been fairly apathetic about Age of Sigmar (just because of the uncertainty) and was prepared to just stick to 6th edition in my closed gaming group, but this actually has enough potential to get me just a tiny bit excited. Maybe we'll end up using Age of Sigmar after all.
This sounds like something I would actually be pretty interested in playing. And the described army sizes would allow me to field a huge variety of armies, since I have collected models from a few different armies over time while focusing on building one large (High Elf) force for active play. Cautiously excited.
2015/06/19 16:30:12
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumors - Age of Sigmar preorder coming on July 4th
guru wrote: Today the rep have indicated that between 26 to 29 June will give us all the information about Age of Sigmar necessary to meet the launch event.
