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 JohnnyHell wrote:
The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.

Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.

Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?

Sorry that's not what Lord Kirby commanded. Just like Squats, Sisters of battle, Chaos Dwarfs ( okay fw but it's not the same ) and Dogs of war, Necromunda, Gorkamorka and Mordhiem it's gone.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.

I disagree, I dont think its so much a bubbleverse, too far afield even from what we have seen. I am more inclined to say that on the other side of that gate is a post apocalyptic old world. Torn asunder and spat back out. Either the angels opening the gate (sorry they are angels to me) spits fractions of the old world back out and some factions with it (the others make there way back in other ways) or the world has already return and opening the gate puts life back on it.

I think having the possibility of other realms definitely increases the expandability later on but I don't think they are going to push that as far as to put all factions in different realms. That would be boring.

Either way it should be very interesting to begin with, the question is can the rules/lore keep that interest. I am not worried about the quality of miniatures as in the last year or so they have all been very high quality (some exceptions but I think that is mostly personal preference).

Fez

 Fezza213 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.

I disagree, I dont think its so much a bubbleverse, too far afield even from what we have seen. I am more inclined to say that on the other side of that gate is a post apocalyptic old world. Torn asunder and spat back out. Either the angels opening the gate (sorry they are angels to me) spits fractions of the old world back out and some factions with it (the others make there way back in other ways) or the world has already return and opening the gate puts life back on it.

I think having the possibility of other realms definitely increases the expandability later on but I don't think they are going to push that as far as to put all factions in different realms. That would be boring.

Either way it should be very interesting to begin with, the question is can the rules/lore keep that interest. I am not worried about the quality of miniatures as in the last year or so they have all been very high quality (some exceptions but I think that is mostly personal preference).

Fez

Oh look the Space Marines save the day again woo hoo.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.

Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?

It's still there if you want to use the older rules.

I'm assuming you are one of the Gobstyks members, and they have a good WHFB group, I'm sure 8th won't die if it turns out the new rules invalidate armies.

Do any companies make the old square sized bases in plastic? Can I just buy a massive bag of them from somewhere?

I really like the idea of AoS but I want square bases for when I play 8th

Daston wrote:
Do any companies make the old square sized bases in plastic? Can I just buy a massive bag of them from somewhere?

I really like the idea of AoS but I want square bases for when I play 8th

You can pick up 20mm and 25mm square bases on ebay pretty cheap...

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
If folk were using Perry historicals already odds are their primary concern is value rather than aesthetic or scale, so "but it's not as THE AWESUMZ as Sigmarine Superangels!" is unlikely to sway their purchasing habits.

Or maybe, just maybe they really do care about aesthetic and scale and just think GW can't be arsed to do either properly.

Context is important. His point was that GW might be hoping people would avoid using historicals because the new models would, unlike in the case of the Empire where there is at least a superficial similarity, be so completely different in scale and aesthetic to other options that everyone would just buy the Sigmarines. My point was that people already buying historicals are likely unconcerned with that, ie they are unconcerned with scale & aesthetic relative to Warhammer miniatures, ie whether they match or not.

Try reading and understanding before you jump down someone's throat next time.

Well the 96 page fluff book and 4 pages of rules is kind of weird....but it does come with whippy sticks so that's okay! Rumour must be true

For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade. Likely some merit in Realmgate and all the other names attempting to be a IP-protectable rather than just calling it a gate and so forth. Anyone checked if any of those items are registered to GW now? They should get on Sigmarines too, just in case.

As far as the models go, the Sigmarines are middling in my opinion. Yes, they are Fantasy Space Marines though the mental gymnastics some are attempting to go through to refute that is quite amusing. Given the sales numbers that Space Marines put up, why wouldn't GW try to see if lightning could strike twice? Even if it doesn't, they can leave them as elites for other "Good" armies and still likely make back their investment though I suspect GW will make more than a little profit on them. Khorne is Khorne; much like it's homophone you either like it and want more of it, or you don't care for it and it won't appeal to you. On their own they're not bad, but it's doubtful I'll find them worth the price tag GW wants to slap on them. I'll wait to be pleasantly surprised, but on terms of pricing that's never the way to bet with GW.

As a plan to launch a new game system, it's not the worst way to start out. As a continuation of a game with a 30 year lineage, most of which being upturned already, I'm not sure it will pan out as well as they hope. Still, as with the somewhat goofy names they're fond of, they're aiming at a younger market (wherein you will find ample examples of horrid naming) and if they retain a handful of customers along the way well that's just dandy.

I think GW missed a trick here.

Am I correcting in saying that Balthasaar what's his name is some god of metal these days?

If these Sigmar troops had in fact been Balthasar's followers, then I think people would be nodding their heads in approval, because they look more like his followers than Sigmar's.

As for the Khorne release, two years ago, it would have been good. Nowadays, it's a bit meh.

I've looked at these minis when I'm sober, looked at them last night with a few drinks in me, and now I'm looking at them with a sore head...and I'm still feeling no heat from them.

I can't be accused at not looking at them from different angles.

 Krinsath wrote:
For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade.

All post-Tolkien fantasy literature works like that, though. "Realmgate" doesn't even register on my trying-too-hard-o-meter.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:
For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade.

All post-Tolkien fantasy literature works like that, though. "Realmgate" doesn't even register on my trying-too-hard-o-meter.

All the language deconstruction we're seeing here (overly flowery names, names that sound like Watergate, etc) is complete bollocks. Yes your spade is just a spade but equally if you go in a shop you'll see all manner of different names for spades. Things have common names (eg Gate) and specific names with appropriate nomenclature (eg Realmgate) that are used at different times depending on context, audience, etc. Enough of the amateur language analysis already.

My problem with Realmgate is that it's a rip off of Stargate, whilst sounding a lot less cool. I don't see Kurt Russell in those kits, either, so...

migooo wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.

Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?

Sorry that's not what Lord Kirby commanded. Just like Squats, Sisters of battle, Chaos Dwarfs ( okay fw but it's not the same ) and Dogs of war, Necromunda, Gorkamorka and Mordhiem it's gone.

There will be those who put a rod in the gears and prevent movement beyond 8th, and will likely cherrypick back to parts of 7th. Warhammer Fantasy is entering the fringe now, the Age of Stigma is upon us.

 Krinsath wrote:
For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade. Likely some merit in Realmgate and all the other names attempting to be a IP-protectable rather than just calling it a gate and so forth. Anyone checked if any of those items are registered to GW now? They should get on Sigmarines too, just in case.

That's a very good way of putting it, actually. I hate when someone says something and manages to explain what I'm feeling better than I can. lol

 jah-joshua wrote:

that still doesn't explain why Stormcast Eternals is such an offensive name...

It's not literally offensive to me, I just don't like the name. I only used the word because someone else was accusing people of being "offended" at "realmgates", and I even put the word "offend" in quotes, but you still somehow interpreted that I was deeply bothered by the name. My entire damn point was "I think the name is silly" and that was pretty much it.

On that note, I'm not sure I understand the whole "-gate = scandal" tangent, because it's painfully obvious the realmgates are like stargates. You know, from Stargate. A "magic" portal to another world or dimension, that's what the realmgates sound like and that's essentially what the stargates were.

As for "why" I think the name Stormcast Eternals is silly? Because it sounds silly. It smacks of "We needed something unique that would be a good, defendable IP." The name just doesn't put that feeling of "Oh, that sounds awesome" in me, it doesn't make me want to learn more about the faction or buy the models...literally my first reaction to seeing the official name was to make a face and say "What?"

And let me guess as to why they're called Stormcast Eternals; because these guys are "unleashed upon shafts of magical lightning" onto the battlefield...like a lightning bolt "cast" from a storm...and they're agents of the "God-King" and most likely immortal, hence eternal. Ecch. It's almost as bad as Tempestus Scions, or Astra Militarum, that faux-Latin crap GW came up with because just calling them "stormtroopers" or "Imperial Guard" made it harder to sue people. Same with the "bleakswords" or "dreadspears" for Dark Elves...they didn't need to come up with a fancy name for Dark Elf spearmen, they did it because they think coming up with a goofy name will somehow make their Dark Elf spearmen protectable IP.

"Goretide" for the Khorne force isn't much better, honestly, but you kind of expect that anymore for Chaos. For these guys...I dunno, "Stormcast Eternals" doesn't really seem right for a bunch of golden-armored avenging angels. I'm no game designer and don't get paid to come up with goofy names for units in tabletop games like GW's crew, but why not something a little more "down to earth" like the Vanguard Host, or the Retributors, Nephilim would have been oddly appropriate, I don't fething know, but I feel like almost anything would have been better. Just calling them Vanguard or Nephilim would have been kinda cool, but again, that's too generic and you can't sue people for using those words to name their stuff, then. Like Krinsath also mentioned, it feels like they make the goofy names because they're trying to sell this stuff to a younger market. It feels less like I'm buying models for a tabletop miniature game and more like I'm buying glorified action figures for the names they give some of this crap. And if you actually play the game it's not so easy to ignore, as you'll constantly be having to write "Murderfang" in your list if you want to use the model, and referring to the "proper" name of the unit, wargear, etc. during the game so your opponents know what the hell you're talking about. I guess if you do nothing but paint models the names don't really matter.

I wasn't going to bother responding to you initially, it felt like a waste of time since you apparently like GW's naming conventions and I clearly don't, but there's my attempt at an explanation since you insisted. Not that I feel like I should have to explain. In any case I can't say I really give a crap about Age of Sigmar and will probably take your advice and ignore it. Still curious to see what becomes of WHF, the existing model range and armies people have collected, but I imagine I'm not going to like it.

Interesting that there are no templates in the starter set. Seems Warhammer is moving away from templates?

I think I've made my mind up that I'm not going to get the starter set but if anything can sway me its going to be the content of that 96-page book.

I.e. If it's 96 pages of rules and profiles for existing units then I will reconsider.

I think its a good amount of stuff for £75.00 but im really not liking the direction aesthetically. Think ill skip this.

from facebook, looks as if it's the retail sheet of AoS

4 pages of rules?

Amazing! So the entire rule book is only 4 pages!? Interesting! Still not getting the starter, but really looking forward to playing with my Empire and Goblins (and plan to start Undead Legions) with AoS.

Finally some official and comforting news regarding our existing armies :-D

Well, that's new. So the 96-page booklet is just a fluff book and the rules do indeed fit on 4 pages? Ehh...

Also, I'm pretty sure there's no way they're going to fit the rules for every existing Warhammer unit on 4 pages, those rules will probably be coming later if I had to guess. Probably a new wave of army books.

The Khorne Goretide is supposed to be a new army? So is it gonna be like 40k then where Chaos is going to end up being split into a ton of books?

It also does seem like Age of Sigmar is intended to replace Warhammer, judging from that.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Well, that's new. So the 96-page booklet is just a fluff book and the rules do indeed fit on 4 pages? Ehh...

Yes, it is.

That line about all existing models being usable and getting rules is very reassuring. As for this 4 pages of rules, what are we thinking - 4 pages of A2 with .01 font? Or 4 pages of "core rules" with an absolute gakload of supplemental material (which sounds kind of horrible)

 docdoom77 wrote:

 PLC wrote:
posted on my blog http://www.thefieldsofblood.com/

Local retailer received this:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar Starter Set

•The most awesome Starter Set Games Workshop has ever produced!
•Recreate the first battle in the Age of Sigmar as the Stormcast Eternals battle the Khorne Goretide to open a Realmgate!
•47 incredibly detailed plastic miniatures; 18 Stormcast Eternals and 29 Warriors of Khorne.
•96 page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book and 4 page rules sheet.
•12 dice, 2 range rulers and 2 Transfer Sheets.
•Totally new beginning for Warhammer miniatures.
•The new miniatures in the starter box are some of the best we have ever done, some will slot straight into existing collections, while the new Stormcast Eternals are going to inspire customers to start new armies.

So the Sigmarines are Stormcast Eternals

If this is true, the 96 page rulebook is the important bit.

Actually, the 4 page rulebook is the important bit (as this coincides with the earlier rumor). It's a 96 page "Age of Sigmar book" which says "fluffbook" to me.

from warseeer

Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar. The old Warhammer World is gone. It exploded and now we can only look ahead at what is to come – The Age of Sigmar. Together we are about to explore new realms. Exciting new adventures lay ahead, with brand new miniatures and new scenarios, set in brand new landscapes. We are opening new realms. Let’s embark on the very first battle of this new era.
The old Warhammer World is gone, and so is Warhammer Fantasy. Forget what you know about Warhammer Fantasy, as Warhammer – the Age of Sigmar is nothing like it. We are going to introduce you to a whole new experience. A brand new game with brand loads of new miniatures and brand new rules.
It is different to what you will expect. It is different to what we have done, but it will amaze you and all your customers. Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed. Size doesn’t matter anymore. Whether you want to play with 10 or 100 miniatures, it is all possible in Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar.
The change is big, but you and your customers can still use the existing miniatures. On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally on our website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works, and how you can use your old miniatures. The rules will be available in many languages (including Dutch). The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes.
Square bases and movement trays are gone. The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape you want. No need to rebase your existing miniatures. Bases are now only used to stand up your miniatures and you can use whatever shape base you like most.

from atia

https://twitter.com/lady_atia

"Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed."
"On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally onthe GW website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works"
"The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes. Square bases and movement trays are gone."
"The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape"

KoW rules are only a couple of pages too right?

I wonder if they'll be super abstracted like Ganesha Games' Song of Blades and Heroes rules.

Super basic stuff on the surface, all sorts of abilities to fiddle with later on.

guru wrote:
from atia

Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar. The old Warhammer World is gone. It exploded and now we can only look ahead at what is to come – The Age of Sigmar. Together we are about to explore new realms. Exciting new adventures lay ahead, with brand new miniatures and new scenarios, set in brand new landscapes. We are opening new realms. Let’s embark on the very first battle of this new era.
The old Warhammer World is gone, and so is Warhammer Fantasy. Forget what you know about Warhammer Fantasy, as Warhammer – the Age of Sigmar is nothing like it. We are going to introduce you to a whole new experience. A brand new game with brand loads of new miniatures and brand new rules.
It is different to what you will expect. It is different to what we have done, but it will amaze you and all your customers. Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed. Size doesn’t matter anymore. Whether you want to play with 10 or 100 miniatures, it is all possible in Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar.
The change is big, but you and your customers can still use the existing miniatures. On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally on our website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works, and how you can use your old miniatures. The rules will be available in many languages (including Dutch). The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes.
Square bases and movement trays are gone. The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape you want. No need to rebase your existing miniatures. Bases are now only used to stand up your miniatures and you can use whatever shape base you like most.

https://twitter.com/lady_atia

IMAGINE IF THEY HAD SAID THIS A FEW MONTHS AGO. THE DRAMA THEY WOULD HAVE SAVED. O LAWD

At last! A rulebook I will have time to read cover to cover!