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 Thud wrote:


Yeah, make your army consist solely of long range shooting, but keep the model count as low as possible, always be outnumbered below the threshold, pick the assassinate sudden death victory condition on turn one, kill your opponent's hero (which, as far as I can make out, cannot join units) and win the game. Narrative: Forged!

Except it will be up to your opponent if you have the Sudden Death Victory by placing enough units. Not you.

 XT-1984 wrote:

 Thud wrote:


Yeah, make your army consist solely of long range shooting, but keep the model count as low as possible, always be outnumbered below the threshold, pick the assassinate sudden death victory condition on turn one, kill your opponent's hero (which, as far as I can make out, cannot join units) and win the game. Narrative: Forged!

Except it will be up to your opponent if you have the Sudden Death Victory by placing enough units. Not you.

Interesting... and since deployment is alternating and stop-whenever you like... does it become a meta-game of deciding when you think you have enough to beat you opponent, only after seeing what the other has brought?

Yeah it seems to me like the size of the game is decided during deployment rather than beforehand.

Could be very interesting.

 XT-1984 wrote:

 Thud wrote:


Yeah, make your army consist solely of long range shooting, but keep the model count as low as possible, always be outnumbered below the threshold, pick the assassinate sudden death victory condition on turn one, kill your opponent's hero (which, as far as I can make out, cannot join units) and win the game. Narrative: Forged!

Except it will be up to your opponent if you have the Sudden Death Victory by placing enough units. Not you.

Then go to plan B:

If your opponent stops deploying units, keep adding more long range fire power and just table him on turn one instead. Narrative: Re-forged!

wow, i didnt notice it...

so you can bring all your model, and depending on your opponent deployment, decide what you bring on the table and what you do not....

Are there no leaked photos of the Chaos brute looking thing?

 Thud wrote:


Yeah, make your army consist solely of long range shooting, but keep the model count as low as possible, always be outnumbered below the threshold, pick the assassinate sudden death victory condition on turn one, kill your opponent's hero (which, as far as I can make out, cannot join units) and win the game. Narrative: Forged!

Except that your opponent gets to choose your target for the assassination and since you're outnumbered he'd have the option to just hide that unit in the back behind all of his troops.

Chopxsticks wrote:
Are there no leaked photos of the Chaos brute looking thing?

Not that I saw, also oddly enough...no images of the chaos guy with the banner/ or the dude with the flesh hound. Also no close ups of the marauders...which take up the majority of the Khorne force...kind of bewildered...someone took the time to take images of everything else though!

This could be, I wouldnt play a game unless there was a decided on number of models however. Power issues aside, until we know more, I wouldnt agree to a whatever you bring. It would be simple, no more than say 30 models thats the limit. Seems pretty easy to me.

Chopxsticks wrote:
Are there no leaked photos of the Chaos brute looking thing?

Not going to lie, I mostly just want this box for Mordheim and to have that guy as a giant Possessed (with actual cultist models squeee).

Speaking of old rules.. if you guys don't like the new version, just play the old version that you do like but with shiny new models.. It's how I've been playing 40k and nobody has hauled me off yet

Chaos needs more pics. It is very random there is no lord pic, banner or marauders pics. These are what I want to see

Ya, im interested in adding to my Chaos Army. HOWEVER I am really interested to see what giant center piece model the Sigmarites get later in release. Cuss you know they are gonna get a glotkin/nagash sized model, they just have to!

 Thud wrote:
[

Then go to plan B:

If your opponent stops deploying units, keep adding more long range fire power and just table him on turn one instead. Narrative: Re-forged!

This.

If you stop deploying and go for the underdog, models wise, the opponent could just pile on everything he has and overwhelm you. No point in holding back. Always have 20-200,000 or so Bloodthirsters ready hidden up your sleeve, in case your opponent stops deploying!!

Chopxsticks wrote:
This could be, I wouldnt play a game unless there was a decided on number of models however. Power issues aside, until we know more, I wouldnt agree to a whatever you bring. It would be simple, no more than say 30 models thats the limit. Seems pretty easy to me.

Ok. I'll bring 30 Bloodthirsters.

Still as simple?

It's like a mini game of poker before the battle begins!

"I see your Nagash and raise you Karl Franz..."

Haha!

Motograter wrote:
Chaos needs more pics. It is very random there is no lord pic, banner or marauders pics. These are what I want to see

As well as the half of the minis I'm at all interested in splitting a box for

Waitasec ...

Motograter wrote:
Chaos needs more pics. It is very random

Heh, I see what you did there

- Salvage

 Thud wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
This could be, I wouldnt play a game unless there was a decided on number of models however. Power issues aside, until we know more, I wouldnt agree to a whatever you bring. It would be simple, no more than say 30 models thats the limit. Seems pretty easy to me.

Ok. I'll bring 30 Bloodthirsters.

Still as simple?

Limit warscrolls and models. "Let's play 5 warscrolls, 30 models max".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Thud wrote:
[

Then go to plan B:

If your opponent stops deploying units, keep adding more long range fire power and just table him on turn one instead. Narrative: Re-forged!

This.

If you stop deploying and go for the underdog, models wise, the opponent could just pile on everything he has and overwhelm you. No point in holding back. Always have 20-200,000 or so Bloodthirsters ready hidden up your sleeve, in case your opponent stops deploying!!

The first rule of AoS is you can only field as many blood thirsters as you can fit in your deployment zone :-p

I just wrote the following on Facebook... and it should be noted that James Hewitt... yes, GW Design-Team James Hewitt, immediately "liked" my posting...

"Right now the only "balance" mechanism seems to be the tremendously powerful "sudden victory" mechanic, and how it interplays with deployment. Once you have seen each-other's "army" you alternate deploying units, stopping whenever you like. Its like a weird bid/gamble system where you stop when you feel you have "enough" to win, knowing your opponent would be leery of going 30% over you in pure numbers... I don't "quite" get it yet... but there is a kind of meta-play there.

You and your opponent pick an upper limit... say 100 models. But then, the meta-game of deployment kicks in, and you might stop at say 40-models, essentially bidding on your ability to have "enough" to pull of whatever sudden victory you get."

Pepticsalve wrote:
That really does stink - so what we can field high elves *and* dark elves in the same army. They freaking HATE each other?

Actually, most of the Dark Elves got over that once the High Elves finally acknowledged Malekith as the rightful Phoenix King in the End Times. Not sure how the High Elves feel about it...

As someone that writes simple and short rulesets I must say that GW really dropped the ball with AoS.

The ruleset spends too much space in explaining things that don't really matter, and not enough space going over the fundamentals. Add to that the fact that there is no balancing system of any kind, and this release is just baffling! There is a part of me that really hopes that this is only a small part of something bigger, but I am skeptical since its GW we are talking about...

 Bottle wrote:

 Thud wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
This could be, I wouldnt play a game unless there was a decided on number of models however. Power issues aside, until we know more, I wouldnt agree to a whatever you bring. It would be simple, no more than say 30 models thats the limit. Seems pretty easy to me.

Ok. I'll bring 30 Bloodthirsters.

Still as simple?

Limit warscrolls and models. "Let's play 5 warscrolls, 30 models max".

Now you've just made every low-quality model useless. "You brought those Khorne Cultist dudes from the starter box? Oh, that's cute, 'cause I've only brought the, ya'know, good models."

There's a reason why other games have point systems. Not all models are equally good, nor should they be equally good, but they still need to function within the same rule set without taking the bad models just being shooting yourself in the foot.

 Bottle wrote:

 Thud wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
This could be, I wouldnt play a game unless there was a decided on number of models however. Power issues aside, until we know more, I wouldnt agree to a whatever you bring. It would be simple, no more than say 30 models thats the limit. Seems pretty easy to me.

Ok. I'll bring 30 Bloodthirsters.

Still as simple?

Limit warscrolls and models. "Let's play 5 warscrolls, 30 models max".

Lets say someone brings 5 bloodthirsters, the other guy brings 30 skullcrushers, is that fair? Will it be balanced? Who can say if it is without a guideline? The only way to see if its a fair match up is by playing, but that shouldnt be the point of the game.

I can see a lot of initial debating and argueing for a game that is designed to just be picked up and played right off the bat.

I'm convinced the lack of points is just a starter set thing. In the break down for how war scrolls work, they talk about in the description were you find the find of upgrades the unit can take.

How can you buy upgrades with no points?

That's my only hope for Saturday.. if all the 8th units turn up the same as the ones in the box.. I think I'm done.. unless GW turns up with something else down the line.

 Thud wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 Thud wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
This could be, I wouldnt play a game unless there was a decided on number of models however. Power issues aside, until we know more, I wouldnt agree to a whatever you bring. It would be simple, no more than say 30 models thats the limit. Seems pretty easy to me.

Ok. I'll bring 30 Bloodthirsters.

Still as simple?

Limit warscrolls and models. "Let's play 5 warscrolls, 30 models max".

Now you've just made every low-quality model useless. "You brought those Khorne Cultist dudes from the starter box? Oh, that's cute, 'cause I've only brought the, ya'know, good models."

There's a reason why other games have point systems. Not all models are equally good, nor should they be equally good, but they still need to function within the same rule set without taking the bad models just being shooting yourself in the foot.

Yeah, this just results in players trying to develop a balancing act with what should be fair against something else. Kind of gives you the feeling of just making up rules, and taking the "game" aspect out of the game.

 Lockark wrote:
I'm convinced the lack of points is just a starter set thing. In the break down for how war scrolls work, they talk about in the description were you find the find of upgrades the unit can take.

How can you buy upgrades with no points?

you cant buy upgrades.................

 Lockark wrote:
I'm convinced the lack of points is just a starter set thing. In the break down for how war scrolls work, they talk about in the description were you find the find of upgrades the unit can take.

How can you buy upgrades with no points?

This is what confused me, then perhaps it could just say only one model in the unit can say be a champion, take a special weapon? If the no points value was just for the starter set then wouldnt it be impossible to field sigmarites in an Empire army?

I think I've worked it out, somebody at gw corporate heard that people were complaining they needed too many points to play a game of wfb so they demanded these point things were removed so people could buy more figures, problem solved

I actually think there were some good ideas in w:aos developement but they seem to have been invalidated by the lack of balance. The battle scrolls could have been a great idea and still could be if they only contained a way of building a balanced force.

 OnePageAnon wrote:
As someone that writes simple and short rulesets I must say that GW really dropped the ball with AoS.

The ruleset spends too much space in explaining things that don't really matter, and not enough space going over the fundamentals. Add to that the fact that there is no balancing system of any kind, and this release is just baffling! There is a part of me that really hopes that this is only a small part of something bigger, but I am skeptical since its GW we are talking about...

Frankly I am impressed that they managed to stuff a Mysterious Terrain table and a campaign system in there.

Technically, running out of space in your deployment zone isn't an issue since the rules don't say that I can't have my army start piled up in a huge vertical stack.