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Dark Elves have Darkshields.

Suck it, Dark Angels!

And for all those who doubted:

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-bretonnia-en.pdf

Yep, that's Bretonnia.

WTF - in the Ogre Kingdom rules for Greasus Goldtooth:

"Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts the bribe then the chosen effect takes place - otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer."

This is how GW wants us to play the game?

Saw the demo copy at my FLGS today...

The models are nice. No doubt about it. And no surprise there since the pictures are everywhere... Some of the piece splits are weird. In some cases, the seams are in the middle of shoulder pads, in some cases, notl.

As nice as they are, they're freakin' huge... I'm half convinced that's a deliberate attempt to "rescale" the game and make older models obsolete.

The big Khonre beastie is even sillier in person. It's entre back is covered with the "emerging" skulls. I'm sure some foilks will like it, but I thought it was the definitel loser of the lot.

As bad as that big nasty is, the Lord is just amazing. Very cool model if Khorne's your thing. I can see that model going into a lot of 40K armies...

In fact, I can see a lot of AoS boxes being sold to 40k World Eater players... Again, not a suprise as others have noted the same thing.

As for the rules...

Ugh. Just ugh...

Unless I missed something, this is not a full game. Point blank, there simply *has* to be something else coming. Don't know if that's the "free" WarsScrolls or something else.

The scenarios are just, really, for what's in the box. This is not something you can use your "legacy" models for. The bulk of the scenarios I saw specified the excat WarScrolls AND number of models you use... But at least one had, "Use the following models *plus* any others you have in your collection".


As for gameplay, about the only hope I can see in the game is if the interaction of special rules for units in the WarScrolls add enough depth to the game to make it interesting. Of course, Wyrd and Privateer Press have huge leads on that front albeit in more complicated rules sets. It'll be interesting to see if the "4 page rules" really mean it's a simple game once there are 10's or 100's of WarScrolls driving game play.

All in all, there's nothing I saw today that makes AoS the slightest bit more tempting. The models are nice, but that's about it...

Oh, and the new whippy sticks are horrible. They' have a new deisgn that is seriously funclutionally lacking. Rather than being solid pieces of plastic, they're "hollow" in the middle/bottom making them far wider than the old sticks, less flexible and much more clunky. A ciompltely minor thing since most folks it seems don't use whippy sticks anyway, but I was shocked at how functionally impaired they seemed to be,.

Anyway, that's my first impression with the AoS.

Valete,

JohnS

I am assuming they will be selling boxes of nicely printed army cards - unless they are compeltely stupid...........

I like the way multi wound creatures suffer as they take wounds

Schmapdi wrote:
WTF - in the Ogre Kingdom rules for Greasus Goldtooth:

"Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts the bribe then the chosen effect takes place - otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer."

This is how GW wants us to play the game?

That's kind of freakin' awesome, actually...

After seeing the Warscrolls I'm actually quite liking AoS.

I still hate the fact there's no points system and that it's completely replacing WHFB, though...

At least I have more of a reason to put standards in my Tomb King units. Resurrect all the skeletons!

Also the rules (for TK skeletons, anyway) push you toward taking at least a 30 strong horde; they have a rule stating that if you have 20 warriors in the unit they increase their attacks by one and if you have at least 30 they increase their attacks by 2.

I really like how they are using keywords for abilities.

 Mort wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Sorry, that is only one of the four .pdfs...

... Is it awful that some of the rules sound super fun? I want to use my Warhammer Giant just for things like "Timber!!!"

Also, "Monster" and "Hero" keywords are used wherever relevant, so I really do think us making a "standard" of say...

-1 Hero Warscroll
-1 Monster Warscroll
- 3 any regular Warscroll
- 100 model cap
- No unit can have more than 20 wounds worth of models

... seems increasingly viable.

Where are you seeing these limitations?

Because I see some of the Warscrolls that -start- with 20 wounds worth of models, and says you can have more....?

-confuzzled-

Just throwing it out there as a "format" I can imagine stores/events running as a balancing mechanism. I didn't see it, but I do see that any model that seems to have high wounds has "Monster" or "Hero" with "Hero" conferring additional Hero-Phase rules as per the four-page instructions.

As such, and especially because, at a glance the only BROKEN part of the rules seems to be the potentially unlimited size of units, I can see very minor agreements from the community, translating pretty quickly into a playable game.

Even if we go with my above and simply trim to the following, it would allow for Sudden Victory to be a factor/bid system meta-game, while keeping the rest managable.

- 1x Hero scroll
- 1x Monster scroll
- 3x Unit scrolls
- Max 100 Models.

 wana10 wrote:
The grail vow is amazing.

"FOR THE LADY!"

The Grail Vow: You can re-roll all failed
hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the
dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and
shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Were all the skaven effects 13" before?

Between the grail vow and greasus and probably more to come i'm liking some of what i'm seeing in a "that's ridiculous i love it' kind of way.

Not in a game sort of way but it does make for good comedy.

edit* Arrowstorm! once per game peasant bowman can quadruple their shots if they number more than 20!

Scanned over the Warriors of Chaos PDF, and Wulfrik's Gift of Tongues ability stood out. Not for a good reason. Basically if an enemy hero is near Wulfrik you make fun of your opponent, and if they change expression Wulfrik gets rerolls vs heroes that turn.

Yea, sure it is cute, but that sort of rule has no place in a game with as much time investment as WAOS, and in practice it will just be played as "Wulfrik gets rerolls vs heroes." How do you possibly adjudicate the rule in a tournament or even just a friendly game otherwise?

The Timber rule for giants struck me the same way. It is funny to have the giant fall over and crush stuff (even if it is strange that other giant monsters don't) but laying the model over to see what it hits is just a mess. There have been many different giant models from GW alone, even before conversions, that the effect is going to be pretty significant across games. Yay for modelling for advantage!

On the other hand, I do like that monsters get less effective across various margins as they take damage. I also like how many wounds the bigger, scarier monsters and characters have. Still, I keep reading things and thinking "Ugh... yet another rule to ignore or argue over before house ruling."

 pretre wrote:

 wana10 wrote:
The grail vow is amazing.

"FOR THE LADY!"

The Grail Vow: You can re-roll all failed
hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the
dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and
shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice.

God, I love that. That's gold.

I am not liking the "20 models in a unit get this bonus, 30 get this etc etc".

It does seem mainly limited to bog standard troops though.

Dare I say it, there is a lot of...fun in these lists.

I'm highly dubious of this GW endeavor.

And He Did Say ‘War’, and the World
Did Tremble...: If Settra the Imperishable
uses this ability, you must hold out your
hand and utter ‘War’ in a supremely
commanding tone. If you do, then until
your next hero phase you can add 1 to all
hit rolls for Death units in your army
that are within 18" of Settra in the combat
phase. If a Deathrattle unit is affected
by this ability, you can also add 1 to their
wound rolls in the combat phase. However,
if Settra is your general, you must not
kneel for any reason during the battle. If
you do, even once, you immediately lose
the battle. Settra does not kneel!

Yeah that's pretty cool.

Age of Sigtard wrote:

Settra:

And He Did Say ‘War’, and the World Did Tremble...:

If Settra the Imperishable uses this ability, you must hold out your hand and utter ‘War’ in a supremely commanding tone. If you do, then until your next hero phase you can add 1 to all hit rolls for Death units in your army that are within 18" of Settra in the combat phase. If a Deathrattle unit is affected by this ability, you can also add 1 to their wound rolls in the combat phase. However, if Settra is your general, you must not kneel for any reason during the battle. If you do, even once, you immediately lose the battle. Settra does not kneel!

Me: "Waaaar!"
Him: "TO!"
TO: "What?"
Him: "This guys cheating. He keeps adding +1 to his to hit rolls, but his tone is only mildly commanding at best."

Yeah there now seem to be lots of rules that 'require' you to shout something in some kind of tone.

Taking Settra gives you a command ability that tells you to hold out your hand and in a commanding (sorry, supremely commanding) tone say "War".


EDIT: ninja'd... twice!

All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"

EDIT2: Also kinda sad that the Heirotitan is gone. Dammit GW you only came up with that unit last book!
EDIT3: And goodbye every TK special character except Settra and Khalida... may you rest in eternal slumber.

I want to play fantasy just because of those rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"

I totally disagree. This actually wants me to make play fantasy.

The additional rules for standards and musicians make them auto include as well. Terrible for balance but maybe a "sweetener" for veteran players with old armies?

Cavalry get 10" movement too, at least in the Bret list.

 pretre wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
WTF - in the Ogre Kingdom rules for Greasus Goldtooth:

"Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts the bribe then the chosen effect takes place - otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer."

This is how GW wants us to play the game?

That's kind of freakin' awesome, actually...

People are so concerned, and perhaps rightly, with tournament/competitive viability... but ye Gods does this game seem to have a ton of fun. My aforementioned "TIMBER!!!!" rule for Giants is hilarious, and something I know friends and I will get a kick out of.

I know people are upset, and surely WHFB is gone and dead... but this totally different game does look terribly fun in its own way.

Whatever you do.. don't drop the dice off the edge of the table after performing that Settra rule.. 'he Knelt.. everyone saw it!'

Honestly the rules with strange requirements are the only thing keeping my interest now. It's basically GW admitting it's not a tournament game and then going all the way with the rules knowing that.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Yeah there now seem to be lots of rules that 'require' you to shout something in some kind of tone.

Taking Settra gives you a command ability that tells you to hold out your hand and in a commanding (sorry, supremely commanding) tone say "War".


EDIT: ninja'd... twice!

All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"

EDIT2: Also kinda sad that the Heirotitan is gone. Dammit GW you only came up with that unit last book!
EDIT3: And goodbye every TK special character except Settra and Khalida... may you rest in eternal slumber.

Apophas is still around.

Checking out the rules for the Empire Warscrolls and came across this:

Pride of the Reiksguard:
Helborg’s skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent.
You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang so long as you have a bigger and more
impressive moustache than your opponent.

Is this new or old? And is it the mini's moustache or the player's? Who decides on the impressiveness of the 'stache?

EDIT: Ok it seems to be new and most armies have something humorous and similar.

They really did it. No points. Just throw all your models on the table.

I see the number '13' prominently displayed throughout the Skaven list.

-giggles-

 pretre wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"

I totally disagree. This actually wants me to make play fantasy.

Fair point
I kinda meant more for serious play if (when?) someone actually manages to make AoS balanced enough to play in a tournament setting or similar.

Did anyone else notice where the Hellcannon is listed?

 wana10 wrote:
Between the grail vow and greasus and probably more to come i'm liking some of what i'm seeing in a "that's ridiculous i love it' kind of way.

Not in a game sort of way but it does make for good comedy.

edit* Arrowstorm! once per game peasant bowman can quadruple their shots if they number more than 20!

Seriously, this game is written pretty transparently for GW staff to run on the Sunday kids-only game, where whichever team yells "WAAAGH!" the loudest gets first turn, and the rules/balance don't actually matter because they let kids put down whatever models they have and make up rules as they go along to try and make every single Little Timmy feel like a special snowflake.

The problem is that "style" of game is only appealing to children, or bored adults looking to have a bit of a laugh very occasionally. You can't build an actual sodding game system around it; you're supposed to dumb-down the actual game system for those kinds of events, to give kids a chance to pick up the rules at their own pace and enjoy themselves while they build up a proper army over time. Without that trajectory, that sense that you're actually doing something with your hobby time rather than just playing a slightly more formal version of you and your mates running about the wooded part of the school playground yelling "pchew, pchew" and pretending to be Aliens vs Predator, on what basis do they expect people to keep buying after the first couple of weeks? They cannot seriously believe this crap is going to net them a big enough increase in volume to make up for the fact that lots of folk who would previously have bought a couple of hundred models will now be getting bored & walking away after only buying a couple of boxes, can they?

Also: dear sweet merciful Christ the fluff, the terrible, terrible fluff

I opened the first PDF for the first faction I'm a fan of in the Old World, the Empire, and I'm greeted by; "In fair Sigmaron the free people of humanity gather, preserving heraldry and cultural traditions from civilisations ground beneath the weight of unceasing strife." ...



Going by the comments; are there really that many people who enjoy making a tit out of themselves in public? Because that's what is happening when one grown-a** man reaches menacingly across a game table and exclaims "WAAAAAARRR!" in a silly voice. That kind of thing might be funny when it's a guy you know doing it spontaneously for a bit of a laugh, but the idea of doing that kind of thing in every game I play against any random person at a local club actually sounds like a profoundly socially uncomfortable experience to me.