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Played two games today, one big one small. Used Ogres against undead, then against lizardmen.

I was ready to hate this game. I am surprised to say, I had fun.

This ISN'T the Warhammer Fantasy Battle that I loved for 20 years, and walked away from when 8th edition destroyed tactics. This is very different. I suspect that there is a lot of 40K in it; (I wouldn't know, having last played 40K in 2001.)

All I can say is, give it a try.

Relapse wrote:


It could be interesting to alternate entire unit activations. I know in Chronopia and Warzone it put shooty and close combat style armies on a more even footing and led to extremely tactical situations.

I totally agree. It's a fun time when it comes down to having two (or more) units you -really- wanna move, and have to pick only one!

 Gymnogyps wrote:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
If we now have a "living rulebook" and warscrolls is there any chance of GW adding points/ a balance element if there is a big enough outcry about it?

No, because there is nobody to hear that outcry.

That was my first thought. I guess that red shirts could pass it "upwards" but those ivory towers are difficult to scale.

What I observed was the local GW employee saying that if people want to complain about the negation of WHB, the game which people have spent innumerable dollars and hours to play... he's had people threaten to write letters (sneer). Well, write that letter. Mr. GW employee will gladly give them the HQ address. This was not in a supportive way; it was entirely dismissive. People who have any problem with what GW deigns to bless them with... are the problem.

It's entirely reasonable that the clerk replied "Would you like the address for that letter?" when someone threatened to write a letter. If that statement was done in a tone implying that the customer was ignorant of how retail works, and you don't understand why, then pause to consider a similar situation: Walk into a grocery store, and complain to the cashier or the clerk about the products being sold at the grocery store.

That's exactly what someone is doing when they walk into a GW store and complain to the clerk about the quality of the game. You're not complaining to someone who made thing you're buy, or had any part in the process.

The design team are so out of touch with what people want. They are trying to turn age of sigmar into some sort of wired cooperative role playing game were everyone is a DM. They just seem to HATE the whole idea that their are people who even would want to play their game in any sort of competitive fashion let alone tournament play.

AoS is like a huge middle finger to everyone who every enjoyed playing warhammer fantasy with any sort of competitive spirit.



Games Workshop killed Fantesy.

 Mort wrote:

Relapse wrote:


It could be interesting to alternate entire unit activations. I know in Chronopia and Warzone it put shooty and close combat style armies on a more even footing and led to extremely tactical situations.

I totally agree. It's a fun time when it comes down to having two (or more) units you -really- wanna move, and have to pick only one!

A scenario some friends and I played in Warzone represented units being magically plucked from their areas and set on a fog shrouded battlefield. It involved having everyone alternate placing individual units on the table anywhere they wanted. The rule was that no one could place units from their own army within 12" of each other, and by the time set up was over there were 4 armies scattered at all points of the table, intermixed with each other.. Combined with the alternating activation it was a heck of a game. People had to decide if they wanted to preserve their elite units or use grunts to fire up elite units they normally wouldn't get a good crack at. A couple of players made it their goal to have some of their units try to fight their way towards each other to form a fire base while the other two tried to fight towards less populated areas of the table. It was a bloodbath game with no allies and where no army had any real advantage over the others except for tactics used.
I think Age of Sigmar could lend itself well to this type of scenario.

Actually, Lockark, it seems more like they want to turn it into a party game where everyone is more interested in having fun than playing a mature strategy game. Beer and Pretzels, if you will.

Not a game system I'm interested in but the Portal terrain pieces I saw at a GW store are really cool looking and would look great on a normal 40k table.

 Lockark wrote:
The design team are so out of touch with what people want. They are trying to turn age of sigmar into some sort of wired cooperative role playing game were everyone is a DM. They just seem to HATE the whole idea that their are people who even would want to play their game in any sort of competitive fashion let alone tournament play.

AoS is like a huge middle finger to everyone who every enjoyed playing warhammer fantasy with any sort of competitive spirit.



Games Workshop killed Fantesy.

Yes warhammer fantasy is gone like necromonder or what ever it was epic and all the others. Whats your point?
They let you use your old models and gave you free rules for them. Everyone got exactly what they wanted. Go to rumours on 8th there is what 800+ pages of hate mail? about how it to hard to this to that and it not selling. So they cut it.

People wanted it to die or change to what they wanted, they just never realized maybe all their complaining and turning away their friends would actually kill what they liked.

Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

It was dying specifically because of what THEY did to the game, there was plenty of people who would have jumped in ( or back in) if they would have fixed the buy-in and a couple rules. They could have done that in a number of ways, instead they lack imagination, tried to copy a Warmahordes play style, hoping to grab some of the market back they lost to them. Yet they want to do that with not even a loose game structure, but one with basically none at all.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Everyone got exactly what they wanted.

I assume GW is paying you a lot to say that with a straight face.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

So far every time someone has come into this thread and gone "It's not that bad guys!" it is always followed with a "You can just XYZ the rules". Do you realise just how stupid that sounds? If everyone's solution to making the rules of this game work is to not use the rules as they are written then it's a problem with the game, not the people reacting to it. How can anyone not get that?

It's the way Palladium RPG games have been run for 30 years. That type of advice isn't restricted to GW fans.

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

Because if you walked into a store and said oh this is cool I said ya here are the rules. Gave you a dictionary and said then you pick a army and gave you another 90 page book. Then said this will cost you 200$ and once you remember it all you can pay 500$+ to try the game out.

Kids who coem in who talk to each other with phones even tho they are in the same room andneed instant gratification the books are a killer. If I hand you a piece of paper that could be the rules for monoply you are more likely to try it especially if it is free.

Hell when is the last time you could say Hey the starter is 150$ want to go halfsee's the rules are there measureing sticks everything. Oh I like the ogres oh save the pdf and you can use your models in hand as them.

So to sum it up:

2 people walk in the store split a 150$ box hell can even split the dice 6 each. Then try any army they like using the same models for 75$

Hell you can even use models from different games to try out new armies. = free


Now to play warhammer fantasy

split on the starter island of blood same price, but you still missing the army books. and for the skaven you need atleast 1 more core unit for skaven and think the same for elf. So thats 185$

Then you like the game want to try a new army well get you check book out thats 60$ for the book and 120$ for a batallion, then you buy a hero/lord and a mage. = 330$+ if your a ogre player.

 streamdragon wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Everyone got exactly what they wanted.

I assume GW is paying you a lot to say that with a straight face.

I will say this my mother always said if i go on the right path no one will ever get me off it because I am more stubron then a mule. I like this and I am actually enjoying it alot. I will keep saying it til I am dead then I will make sure it is cared on my grave stone "The game is good, you are wrong"

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

If WHFB was Beer and Pretzels, then AoS is fething Gerber and Breast Milk since I cannot fathom it needing to be dumbed down THIS much...

 Breotan wrote:
Actually, Lockark, it seems more like they want to turn it into a party game where everyone is more interested in having fun than playing a mature strategy game. Beer and Pretzels, if you will.

I think you are right. Anymore, if I want to play a miniatures game involving maneuver & tactics, I play historicals. Beneath the Lily Banners, Drum & Shako, Black Powder, Maurice... historical rules sets have evolved a lot, and many are very playable. I was going to re-base my WHFB armies for Impetus Fantasy, but now I am going to give AoS a chance.

One thing is for certain, though: the gnoblars are staying on their movement trays until it is time to pile in.

 Breotan wrote:
Actually, Lockark, it seems more like they want to turn it into a party game where everyone is more interested in having fun than playing a mature strategy game. Beer and Pretzels, if you will.

Not a game system I'm interested in but the Portal terrain pieces I saw at a GW store are really cool looking and would look great on a normal 40k table.

except for the whole fact that the person who spent the most money on the biggest modles get's to win most games.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

If WHFB was Beer and Pretzels, then AoS is fething Gerber and Breast Milk since I cannot fathom it needing to be dumbed down THIS much...

Anwser this question before you insult the rules.

If you set down one of your friends who NEVER heard of warhammer or anything else. How long would it take you to explain every rule in the book to them, then all the rules for their army. Then try and get them to play a game with you and know the rules with out book searching for hours.

Now with that same idea how long would it take you to tell your friend these rules and their army rules?

You want to know why they dumbed down the rules? Check the you make the call thread..... no one read the same rule the same way. Then with the 5 charts of how to hit someone then the different rules on what ignored armour and so on it gets confusing.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Everyone got exactly what they wanted.

I assume GW is paying you a lot to say that with a straight face.

I will say this my mother always said if i go on the right path no one will ever get me off it because I am more stubron then a mule. I like this and I am actually enjoying it alot. I will keep saying it til I am dead then I will make sure it is cared on my grave stone "The game is good, you are wrong"

If you're enjoying the game, more power to you. The idea that "everyone got what they want" is so ridiculous I can only assume you're one of the many paid GW shills. At least, I'd hope you're paid. Shilling this for free would just be sad.

It's actually pretty different in play then on paper, as someone said on another topic 100 goblins were able to kill Nagash so it's not all doom and gloom.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

If WHFB was Beer and Pretzels, then AoS is fething Gerber and Breast Milk since I cannot fathom it needing to be dumbed down THIS much...

Anwser this question before you insult the rules.

If you set down one of your friends who NEVER heard of warhammer or anything else. How long would it take you to explain every rule in the book to them, then all the rules for their army. Then try and get them to play a game with you and know the rules with out book searching for hours.

Now with that same idea how long would it take you to tell your friend these rules and their army rules?

You want to know why they dumbed down the rules? Check the you make the call thread..... no one read the same rule the same way. Then with the 5 charts of how to hit someone then the different rules on what ignored armour and so on it gets confusing.

This is pretty much on the money.

So... when are we going to see a youtube video of the WFB player setting up his armies in the backyard and shooting them with a pellet gun because he hates AoS so much?

 Yaraton wrote:
So... when are we going to see a youtube video of the WFB player setting up his armies in the backyard and shooting them with a pellet gun because he hates AoS so much?

Feel free to make one!

Relapse wrote:

 Mort wrote:

Relapse wrote:


It could be interesting to alternate entire unit activations. I know in Chronopia and Warzone it put shooty and close combat style armies on a more even footing and led to extremely tactical situations.

I totally agree. It's a fun time when it comes down to having two (or more) units you -really- wanna move, and have to pick only one!

A scenario some friends and I played in Warzone represented units being magically plucked from their areas and set on a fog shrouded battlefield. It involved having everyone alternate placing individual units on the table anywhere they wanted. The rule was that no one could place units from their own army within 12" of each other, and by the time set up was over there were 4 armies scattered at all points of the table, intermixed with each other.. Combined with the alternating activation it was a heck of a game. People had to decide if they wanted to preserve their elite units or use grunts to fire up elite units they normally wouldn't get a good crack at. A couple of players made it their goal to have some of their units try to fight their way towards each other to form a fire base while the other two tried to fight towards less populated areas of the table. It was a bloodbath game with no allies and where no army had any real advantage over the others except for tactics used.
I think Age of Sigmar could lend itself well to this type of scenario.

You just described Heroscape

That said, agreed that AoS seems to have potential. Store owner and some folks were playing a test game (I was playing Planetfall one table over and watching).
There were a lot of "I can't believe this" statements about the silly rules about mustaches, talking to models, etc.
BUT those who played seemed to have fun and said it was a good game overall.
I need another miniatures game like a hole in the head but I'm really interested in this specific starter since it's not the same old dwarves and goblins models fighting (in the starter, that is).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:
So... when are we going to see a youtube video of the WFB player setting up his armies in the backyard and shooting them with a pellet gun because he hates AoS so much?

Feel free to make one!

Yeah. That would be cool. Please post a link.

You should make the 50 point target Nagash' head.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

Because if you walked into a store and said oh this is cool I said ya here are the rules. Gave you a dictionary and said then you pick a army and gave you another 90 page book. Then said this will cost you 200$ and once you remember it all you can pay 500$+ to try the game out.

Kids who coem in who talk to each other with phones even tho they are in the same room andneed instant gratification the books are a killer. If I hand you a piece of paper that could be the rules for monoply you are more likely to try it especially if it is free.

Hell when is the last time you could say Hey the starter is 150$ want to go halfsee's the rules are there measureing sticks everything. Oh I like the ogres oh save the pdf and you can use your models in hand as them.

So to sum it up:

2 people walk in the store split a 150$ box hell can even split the dice 6 each. Then try any army they like using the same models for 75$

Hell you can even use models from different games to try out new armies. = free


Now to play warhammer fantasy

split on the starter island of blood same price, but you still missing the army books. and for the skaven you need atleast 1 more core unit for skaven and think the same for elf. So thats 185$

Then you like the game want to try a new army well get you check book out thats 60$ for the book and 120$ for a batallion, then you buy a hero/lord and a mage. = 330$+ if your a ogre player.

I never said it was casual. But it sure as hell wasn't a viable tournament game, or else the fantasy tournament scene would still be thriving. The game was already down the path of casual players putting down huge models and rolling lots of dice to cast OP spells and kill everything. The game was bloated and unbalanced. It was good for nothing more than casual games played between friends. Not necessarily a bad thing, but that's what I mean by "beer and pretzels" game.

AOS does simplify things, but its the same exact thing as before. Put down whatever models you want, run at each other, roll lots of dice. Maybe some people prefer it that way, and maybe it will help get new players into the game, but that's probably not much consolation for the people who disliked 8th because of the reasons I mentioned.

 ToxicBox wrote:
You should make the 50 point target Nagash' head.

100 pts if you can hit just the bony beard

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:
Once again, WFB was already a beer and pretzels game. It wasn't competitive, and it was dying. Seeming to imply that people get bored of beer and pretzel games after awhile.

I just don't see how this is supposed to help.

If WHFB was Beer and Pretzels, then AoS is fething Gerber and Breast Milk since I cannot fathom it needing to be dumbed down THIS much...

Anwser this question before you insult the rules.

If you set down one of your friends who NEVER heard of warhammer or anything else. How long would it take you to explain every rule in the book to them, then all the rules for their army. Then try and get them to play a game with you and know the rules with out book searching for hours.

Now with that same idea how long would it take you to tell your friend these rules and their army rules?

You want to know why they dumbed down the rules? Check the you make the call thread..... no one read the same rule the same way. Then with the 5 charts of how to hit someone then the different rules on what ignored armour and so on it gets confusing.

It took me like 5 minutes to understand the basics of Warhammer 8th Edition and 30 minutes to know enough about the models in front of me to play a game. The three requirements of WHFB are the ability to read a chart, the ability to measure distances, and the ability to roll dice. Yes, I do agree that WHFB could have been simplified. But there's simplification and writing a dear mess of rules and telling people "figure it out yourself".

I was pretty skeptical at first, but after reading a battle report or two, I'm jumping back in after a several year's absence from fantasy.

I guess I'm the opposite. I look at the game and tried it and was just not having fun. It's a shame because I really like the new models but nothing in the game is actually interesting for me to play. It certainly doesn't help that every game I played and saw was reduced to all models bunched up at the middle with more coming from the sides creating this giant ball of violence. I'm happy for people who do enjoy this game but this definitely wasn't fun for me.

Oh, and before people say "you just need to try another game", I tried 3 and watched like 5. There's a limit here.

xaszatm wrote:
I guess I'm the opposite. I look at the game and tried it and was just not having fun. It's a shame because I really like the new models but nothing in the game is actually interesting for me to play. It certainly doesn't help that every game I played and saw was reduced to all models bunched up at the middle with more coming from the sides creating this giant ball of violence. I'm happy for people who do enjoy this game but this definitely wasn't fun for me.

Oh, and before people say "you just need to try another game", I tried 3 and watched like 5. There's a limit here.

It definitely isn't for everyone. Are you going to give Kings of War a shot with your armies?

Relapse wrote:

xaszatm wrote:
I guess I'm the opposite. I look at the game and tried it and was just not having fun. It's a shame because I really like the new models but nothing in the game is actually interesting for me to play. It certainly doesn't help that every game I played and saw was reduced to all models bunched up at the middle with more coming from the sides creating this giant ball of violence. I'm happy for people who do enjoy this game but this definitely wasn't fun for me.

Oh, and before people say "you just need to try another game", I tried 3 and watched like 5. There's a limit here.

It definitely isn't for everyone. Are you going to give Kings of War a shot with your armies?

Maybe, I've been more of a Firestorm Player recently and this is making me think about selling off the models and just going to Planetfall due to the new rules but I'll wait until the KOW2 rules are released before making a decision. Though apparently the Twilight Kin aren't the best condition right now rules-wise I'm told.