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2015/07/08 18:56:15
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
I see the argument for khorne having no depth, but nurgle and tzeentch? Their concepts are deep on their own... You can only imagine so far about martial prowess and cutting skulls off, but diseases? Universal biology is an extremely interesting concept and disease itself is a very interesting way to fight also. Artistically, the concept they created of heavily diseased beings having immense resilience because of it is awesome, like a typhoid mary that becomes superhuman from a disease that renders other organisms extinct. Despair and hopelessness are also pretty large and prominent emotional concepts to latch onto, and can be deepened and injected into the fluff in myriad interesting and original ways.
Likewise, the concept of tzeentch controlling all events and changes in the universe is incredibly deep. The intelligence of a mind that could predict all events and twist fate to steer events is incredible... He has a part in everything. Its similar actually to the concept of a god used in traditional mythology (all knowing, all seeing, controlling all events) and leads to endless amounts of things he could be doing, could be interested in, or could have something to do with him. The amvitions of so many warlords and politicians, what they think is free will is a plan too twisted for a mortal mind to comprehend. The magic is a logical connection due to his vast intelligence and magic coming from the psyche. Literally almost any story could be written with tzeentch at the wheel in the background.. Even if none of the characters have even heard of him.
Khorne is so one dimensional he hardly has a personality. I cant even properly relate to anything he is involved with. There is only one way to put him in any sort of story and only one way to depict his apparent "theme". Angry dudes that like to chop. Really bland concept if you ask me.
I agree, I think there's a lot more depth to all the Chaos gods than most people are willing to look for. I think what it mainly comes down to is everyone picks their favorite and then does everything they can to justify their choice while making the others sound stupid. Which is why you have Slaanesh fans dumbing the others down to "plague, plague, plague" or "plan, plan, plan", or Khorne fans trying to make them all sound equally simplified, etc.
Well my point for example was that Tzeenth is plan plan plan as much as Slaneesh is sex sex sex. And I love all chaos gods, I can never finish a csm army because I change my mind in the middle of the project about who the main god is.
Khorne actualy is a simpleton but I want that bloodthirster with chainsaws anyway and fw one just like it is.
From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.
A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.
How could I look away?
2015/07/08 18:56:53
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
AncientSkarbrand wrote: It seems strange, the chaos gods are a well of potential IP capitalization that never gets the attention they deserve. They could do alot more really. I imagine chaos armies are fairly popular, and their owners probably mostly feel like the concepts go beyond the sculpts and gw-fluff.
I imagine thats a healthy wad of cash to just ignore and lazy-away.
Honestly ever chaos player I know feels they got the short stick, I don't think any chaos army I have seen in years hasn't had something added in from other places.
My chaos army's all incorporate models from PP now, and other places.
2015/07/08 19:00:10
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Maybe I'm overanalyzing things, but given the change of public opinion considering sexuallity, geneder and transgender I can see GW steering way from attributing it to a demonic (ie. evil) entity. I can imagine them redefining Slaanesh in some form, probably not writing it out completely.
It's a drop in the ocean though, given all the others facist undertones of the Imperium.
2015/07/08 19:10:00
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Darkseid wrote: Maybe I'm overanalyzing things, but given the change of public opinion considering sexuallity, geneder and transgender I can see GW steering way from attributing it to a demonic (ie. evil) entity. I can imagine them redefining Slaanesh in some form, probably not writing it out completely.
It's a drop in the ocean though, given all the others facist undertones of the Imperium.
It could be, but simply dropping slaanesh is probably not the best way to handle it.
But GW will be GW..
2015/07/08 19:14:25
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Darkseid wrote: Maybe I'm overanalyzing things, but given the change of public opinion considering sexuallity, geneder and transgender I can see GW steering way from attributing it to a demonic (ie. evil) entity. I can imagine them redefining Slaanesh in some form, probably not writing it out completely.
It's a drop in the ocean though, given all the others facist undertones of the Imperium.
Not to mention fat people being demonic and disgustingly sick.
Though since the whole affair was never about equality anyway and always extremly selective, noone really cares about fat guys and therefore Slanesh could be first to censor when it comes to that.
From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.
A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.
How could I look away?
2015/07/08 19:20:57
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
To be fair, they don't even represent other races well across all their universes. If they don't care about that, I doubt they'd cave to any other group.
Sidstyler wrote: But you can copyright (trademark?) a skull, apparently, which is all the Khorne symbol is.
Sure and the Nike Swoosh is just a check mark.
You mean it's not?
Plumbumbarum wrote: Well my point for example was that Tzeenth is plan plan plan as much as Slaneesh is sex sex sex. And I love all chaos gods, I can never finish a csm army because I change my mind in the middle of the project about who the main god is.
Fair enough.
Plumbumbarum wrote: Khorne actualy is a simpleton but I want that bloodthirster with chainsaws anyway and fw one just like it is.
I don't even think Khorne is that bad, honestly. He's a simpleton now because that's where GW went with the fluff, where it's literally all "rage, rage, rage" but that doesn't mean it's impossible to do something interesting with it. GW just didn't know or care.
Like it's so bad that I remember people saying at one point that Khorne worshippers wouldn't use guns, or that they were so utterly mad that they couldn't drive tanks, either, so the only "fluffy" way to run a Khorne army would be fielding nothing but berserkers and daemons. Even GW isn't that one-dimensional.
Darkseid wrote: Maybe I'm overanalyzing things, but given the change of public opinion considering sexuallity, geneder and transgender I can see GW steering way from attributing it to a demonic (ie. evil) entity. I can imagine them redefining Slaanesh in some form, probably not writing it out completely.
I personally don't really see it that way, but I guess others might. If that's the case then you could argue Tzeentch's lore is basically attributing intelligence to a demonic entity, couldn't you?
Excess is definitely something that makes sense as an "evil" attribute, I'd think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/08 19:36:39
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
2015/07/08 19:43:32
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Can a moderator change the title of OP? Its not a retcon if Slaanesh was captured. A retcon is an attempt to remove them from ever existing from any of the backstory or lore, a simple killing off or such isn't a retcon.
It makes it sound so much worse than it actually is, especially considering we have a leak now of the mythology showing him/her being captured by Sigmarites.
Even if they have imprisoned slaanesh, im sure his influence will leak out of his confinement, corrupting his captors, which could lead to some interesting fluff. Kinds of like how a daemon host can slowly corrupt an inquistor who uses his power and knowledge. Slaanesh would be great as a seemly powerless force corrupting and 'guiding' another faction.
Also im sure that as in nature where theres a vacuum something will rush in to fill it. This could be the horned rat or even belakor, the logo does look like it could fit either of them.
http://thelaughterofthedamned.blogspot.co.uk/
2015/07/08 19:46:07
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
If they really are ditching Slaanesh it will be a real shame because she's not all about sex sex sex. Back when GW had their own forums I wrote a mini-series about each of the chaos gods detailing what made each of them interesting above their stereotypical representation. It was in response to somebody complaining that Nurgle was boring as he was only about plague and it was about a year before GW published their official chaos books (I wonder if the special edition ones are worth anything now?).
Slaanesh only became all about the bewbies as the old timers at GW started leaving. It's sad, I miss the old Ignorant Armies and Laughter of Dark Gods days - that was when chaos was cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/08 19:46:35
2015/07/08 19:46:56
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
edlowe wrote: Even if they have imprisoned slaanesh, im sure his influence will leak out of his confinement, corrupting his captors, which could lead to some interesting fluff. Kinds of like how a daemon host can slowly corrupt an inquistor who uses his power and knowledge. Slaanesh would be great as a seemly powerless force corrupting and 'guiding' another faction.
Also im sure that as in nature where theres a vacuum something will rush in to fill it. This could be the horned rat or even belakor, the logo does look like it could fit either of them.
Exactly, this sounds more like part of the new "narrative" system they're wanting to do where every few months they release a series of scenarios to follow a major event and advance the storyline.
Slaanesh gets captured, Slaanesh corrupts some Sigmarines and gets free and takes over prat of Azyr, bam, series of scenarios happens.
Yeah, Tzeentch and Slaanesh can be the most subtile, when it comes to corruption. Heck, one might not even know that Tzeentch has his eye on him, until time comes.
Same goes for Slaanesh. You rich? You like to party? Ja ja?
Greed, gluttony, hunger for power, torturing beings/causing pain, speed, drugs, any form of addictive behaviour, vanity, jealousy, the act of giving and then taking away, causing/experiencing variant emotions, lying, self pity, protectiveness, proliferation
Sigvald alone was 99,99% of this
It would be shame if thy dropped Slaanesh. Though he could be shocking from time to time, especially for younger audience. Cough, using excrements and blood instead of paints, to paint a portrait, cough.
Also, Noise Marines were born in a violent orgy of sex, extasy and various other profanities.
I personally don't really see it that way, but I guess others might. If that's the case then you could argue Tzeentch's lore is basically attributing intelligence to a demonic entity, couldn't you?
No, because the main theme for Tzeentch as I see it is deception and deceit. Intelligence just helps with that.
2015/07/08 19:57:15
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Sidstyler wrote: Yeah, and the main theme for Slaanesh is excess and addiction. Drugs and sex just help convey that.
I dunno, I just don't see it being that different.
And yet Slaangors were never described with those terms.
They were described as albinos with "luxurious fur capes and looted jewellery which contrasts strangely with their bestial natures".
It's not like similar could not be done for the other Mortal followers of Chaos; Sigvald is a perfect example of such.
2015/07/08 20:03:33
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Shadowclaimer wrote: If Slaanesh does get captured, and the WD hint seems to suggest that (someone was saying the WD contains info about Sigmar being the one who captured the Prince.) I'd easily say its more of the narrative setup kinda thing, where they'll have him captured then get free and corrupt some Sigmarines or something.
Seems like cool story potential to me.
I feel as though that they may get rid of Slaanesh in AoS and give that place to some kind of "skaven" god... or mix the two up, was there not some thing about slaanesh staying in the old world feasting on the souls of the left behind elves?
I think that in the long run "slaanesh" is not dead, he is a well established god but that he may take a back seat in AoS, maybe he was the least popular of the gods and I am sure the "sexual" aspect of him (like it or not, sex was his thing, obviously excess but people focused on sex, remember the penis army ) had something to play with it.
either way, I would like skaven to get a stronger "god" aspect in chaos, would make sense... plus Slaanesh being excess was a bit.. hard to pull off, would not excess of violence be slaanesh which would feed khorne, what about excess of lying (change) or what about excess of corruption (pus boy)... slaanesh in the long run had a hard time fitting in if you ask me..
or it could be Malal he is back and kicking arse now that more people hate chaos than ever before.... and what if MALAL is the HORNED GOD (malal, spikey bits, horns, anyone?)
I cannot wait for more info
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/08 20:25:16
2015/07/08 20:23:43
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
Grimtuff wrote:
One would have thought Mr Pirinen would be dragging this... thing through the dirt seeing as he was responsible for WHFB 6th edition and all of the groundwork it laid for the two future editions, only to be replaced by WHFB Numberwang edition.
Too far removed from it, I think. Also, as I said, didn't want to ruffle too many feathers. (Though is there anyone still at GW that he would've worked with? Jervis?)
Shadowclaimer wrote:
Slaanesh's followers that were vain or indulgent in non-sexual desires were by and far my favorites in the novels and backstory.
I get what you mean. Though as Tiamat and others said, they were all made one-note to some degree. Forget Sigvald, Khorne used to be the one about martial skill, not just skullzskullzskullz. Nurgle used to be Grandfather Nurgle, utterly besotted with Isha. Tzeentch... well TBH I'm not entirely sure what Tzeentch's other facets were, beyond being constantly described as having like a zillion facets you guys.
I've had thoughts of getting the plastic nurgle champion, covering over his sores, and sculpting a cherubic, golden-ringleted, but big fat face on it. Best get to it while there's some left? Also, I vaguely remember something in Liber Chaotica: Nurgle about a norse tribe worshipping Nurgle in the form of a(n emaciated?) crow. I thought that would've been an interesting angle to explore, model wise. Steal a bit of birdy theme off Tzeentch.
Shadowclaimer wrote:I'd like to see Slaanesh-specific golden radiant self-indulgent donkey-cave Warriors actually. That'd be awesome.
Tzeentch represents the desire to change one's future. This is done through planning, secret knowledge, employing magic to force the change on the universe. Tzeentch provides the means to this, and tricks you to his own end.
Nurgle represents the lethargy and apathetic acceptance of one's fate. You do not fight the disease, or the knowledge of your death, and Nurgle allows you to grow stronger in your decay.
Khorne, though not being shown this way enough by GW, is straight forward, standing up and fighting your foes in person, fighting those who are worth the fight over pathetic cowards and weaklings. No lies, no bullcrap, just look you in the face violence.
Slaanesh is about seducing your enemy, turning them to your side, lying, using peoples thoughts and emotions against them, attacking the weak because it is easy and fun, stabbing someone in the back. This use of people's emotions means many champions can be icons of perfection in one arena, as it was their love for this that turned them.
I've only glanced back at this thread, but if they seriously are getting rid of Slaanesh, I will not be spending money at GW any more.
2015/07/08 20:27:17
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Retcon? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Slaanesh-Devotee wrote: Tzeentch represents the desire to change one's future. This is done through planning, secret knowledge, employing magic to force the change on the universe. Tzeentch provides the means to this, and tricks you to his own end.
Nurgle represents the lethargy and apathetic acceptance of one's fate. You do not fight the disease, or the knowledge of your death, and Nurgle allows you to grow stronger in your decay.
Khorne, though not being shown this way enough by GW, is straight forward, standing up and fighting your foes in person, fighting those who are worth the fight over pathetic cowards and weaklings. No lies, no bullcrap, just look you in the face violence.
Slaanesh is about seducing your enemy, turning them to your side, lying, using peoples thoughts and emotions against them, attacking the weak because it is easy and fun, stabbing someone in the back. This use of people's emotions means many champions can be icons of perfection in one arena, as it was their love for this that turned them.
I've only glanced back at this thread, but if they seriously are getting rid of Slaanesh, I will not be spending money at GW any more.
notice how your interpretation of slaanesh could easily fall into nurgles category and tzeentch and a bit like "skaven" (skaven could be slaanesh, live fast, die faster, excess, lying, attack the weak, what if slaanesh and the horned god had the dance of love and became a new god) either way, they could have just changed the symbol because the symbol was too sexual (hermaphrodite symbol?) and slaanesh is all there and safe.
Legion: Dark Angels 
