Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Based on the fluff, who do you think would win in a fight? Also, while at it, on table top do you think that the game favors CS or DA?

Added bonus: In a hand to hand fight, who would win between Azrael vs Kranon?

Do you mean ALL of the DA against all of the Crimson Slaughter? My chaos brethren would be slaughtered. They are outnumbered by so much it would make it no contest. Unfortunatley I would also vote in favor of Azreal, assuming Kranon has not pumped up his Blade of the Relentless. Even than he is in for a hell of a fight. On the table we are talking a 180 point Chaos Lord against a 215 point Chapter/Legion Master.

I would limit it to only the DA chapter instead of all the successor chapters.

Would being pumped up give Kranon enough edge to win against the chapter master of the first?

Honestly, it's not a close fight at all. Kranon as badass as he is, cant take on Azreal, fluff and mathammer. Even when his sword is maxed out he's gonna struggle against Azzy.

Kranon might win the rule of cool, but he is not in the same league as Azreal. It would be nice if they gave him some stats that aren't just "lord with relics".

It would have to be Azrael. After Kranon switched to Chaos he lost his artificer armor and one of his wounds apparently so he's a little weaker than Azrael.

DA would wipe the floor with Crimson Slaughter. Counting fleet assets, I think DA are one of the three most powerful, if not the most, powerful single chapter in the Imperium.

And I don't think Kranon could down the Supreme Grand Master of the Unforgiven.

DA would win fluffwise and ruleswise. And in duel Azrael is much more powerfull and relentless than Kranon.

Maybeyou should have make poll Kranon vs Baltasar with Monster Slayer of Caliban? It will be much closer and interesting fight.

I'd math hammer it but my friend with the crimson slaughter codex is gone so I have no idea what all krannon has

There is an Audio Drama (which I really really like) that shows how fething genius Azrael is.
Besides that he is a worthy combatant that took on Karn in a duell...


Azrael is way underrated fluffwise.

 Thairne wrote:
There is an Audio Drama (which I really really like) that shows how fething genius Azrael is.
Besides that he is a worthy combatant that took on Karn in a duell...

Spoiler:

Granted, he didn't choose to, but it ended in a situation, where he could have killed Karn, sacrificing his own life. He even tricked a freakin' Tzeentchian Demon...!

Azrael is way underrated fluffwise.

What audio drama is that from? Sounds like a good listen.

Trials of Azreal. It's one of my favorite audio books. Worth it.

From what I heard about Trials, it was less of a "dual" and more of a "UUhhh.... crap...." deal. I seem to remember something about chairs and tables being thrown at ol' Kharn. Hell of a guy.

Also, didn't Azrael get totally owned by Arkos the Faithless on vraks? Granted, I understand he is the "bad guy" but Kranon is no joke. He's killed 2 DA captains and even has managed to get some degree of respect from Abbadon himself. If we are going to bring feats into it, I believe that Kranon has taken down 2 greater daemons on his own pretty much. And he has his eyes set on #3.
Rules wise it's a bit of a crapshoot imo. Both are WS6, Both have 4++. Azzy strikes at s6 AP3, but kranon has his daemonheart (artificer armour with a slew of special rules). Yeah, the blade of the relentless -starts- as a powersword, but it doesnt take much for it to get very murderous.
On tha tabletop perspective it's all about what has happened so far. Do they have unit escorts? What kind?? Did any shooting happen first? Has Kranon's sword gone super-saijin? Did either have psychic support? Actually, I have a game tomorrow. I'll see if my buddy will bring his DA, and I'll bring my CSM using the slaughter. We'll try to get them in a challenge and see what happens.

As much as it shames me to vote, I chose DA :(

 Rippy wrote:
As much as it shames me to vote, I chose DA :(

LOL LOL. Me too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azrael is T4 W4 I5, with 4++ with FNP. His sword gives him S8 Ap3, and he has a nice combi plasma (both weapons are mastercrafted). I mean, he's a 215 point unit that has 4 chapter relics But for the Grand Poom-bah of the Dark Angels, his damage kinda blows.

Kranon is T4 W3 I5 with 5++ and no FNP. He has a cruddy power sword, so S4. and a basic plasma pistol; nothing is mastercrafted.

So, shooting match or close combat, the models match the fluff... Kranon has no chance :(

However, on my tabletop, Kranon is a badass supremely awesome looking model, and Azrael looks kinda like the dweeb nobody would talk to in the Roman Senate.

So like, MY Kranon would get the special rules Aura of Coolness = +5 wounds, Armor of Awesomeness = 4++ with 4+ FNP, and Sword of OMG = Destroyer weapon.

And Azrael would be hit with the special rule Decrepit Model. Which is "Model may never make a saving throw. If model takes damage, immediately remove from game and replace with a nicer model."

 Talys wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
As much as it shames me to vote, I chose DA :(

LOL LOL. Me too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azrael is T4 W4 I5, with 4++ with FNP. His sword gives him S8 Ap3, and he has a nice combi plasma (both weapons are mastercrafted). I mean, he's a 215 point unit that has 4 chapter relics But for the Grand Poom-bah of the Dark Angels, his damage kinda blows.

Kranon is T4 W3 I5 with 5++ and no FNP. He has a cruddy power sword, so S4. and a basic plasma pistol; nothing is mastercrafted.

So, shooting match or close combat, the models match the fluff... Kranon has no chance :(

However, on my tabletop, Kranon is a badass supremely awesome looking model, and Azrael looks kinda like the dweeb nobody would talk to in the Roman Senate.

So like, MY Kranon would get the special rules Aura of Coolness = +5 wounds, Armor of Awesomeness = 4++ with 4+ FNP, and Sword of OMG = Destroyer weapon.

And Azrael would be hit with the special rule Decrepit Model. Which is "Model may never make a saving throw. If model takes damage, immediately remove from game and replace with a nicer model."

Hey, old Azzy is pretty darn cool. A sword almost as long as he is tall, a sweet combi-plasma, some pretty sweet looking robes, that awesome banner.... and let's not forget, his munchkin friend from the lollipop guild carrying his helmet. Let's not forget he's preferred enemy chaos too.

I do think his sword is only S 6 or 7 though, so not quite as impressive. Still kick butt, but not quite as much.

Also, assuming they do have a bodyguard unit of elite units like command squads, Azrael's whole unit has an invuln, meaning get rekt chaos skrubs. We'll just spam plasma in proper DA fashion and decimate you, or go full on dakka banner. And oh, the turn that you planned on trying to charge me? Azrael blinded your squad.

Kranon really deserves to have a real character entry made for him. Something more on par with Typhus and Karn's power levels. He should be a least qual to Horun imo.

I know the DV set gives rules for Kranon which are fairly crummy, but the Crimson Slaughter Supplement gives a recommended loadout for a chaos lord in order to play Kranon. The loadout is a Chaos Lord equipped with the Blade of the Relentless, The Slaughterer's Horns, Daemonheart, plasma pistol and sigil of corruption. That would give Kranon a 2+/4++ along with IWND. And he'd be getting something like 6 attacks on the charge, and with a juiced up sword, those attacks are at S7 - S6 outside of the charge - with Instant Death.

 King Pariah wrote:
I know the DV set gives rules for Kranon which are fairly crummy, but the Crimson Slaughter Supplement gives a recommended loadout for a chaos lord in order to play Kranon. The loadout is a Chaos Lord equipped with the Blade of the Relentless, The Slaughterer's Horns, Daemonheart, plasma pistol and sigil of corruption. That would give Kranon a 2+/4++ along with IWND. And he'd be getting something like 6 attacks on the charge, and with a juiced up sword, those attacks are at S7 - S6 outside of the charge - with Instant Death.

I'm not familiar with what he needs to power up his sword, but we're assuming that he manages to avoid Azrael for the entire game until he gets S7. If I'm going up against a chaos lord with that much gear, I'm going to make him the prime target of Azrael and a command squad or Deathwing Knight squad. Not going to let him get near a tactical squad or scouts.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I know the DV set gives rules for Kranon which are fairly crummy, but the Crimson Slaughter Supplement gives a recommended loadout for a chaos lord in order to play Kranon. The loadout is a Chaos Lord equipped with the Blade of the Relentless, The Slaughterer's Horns, Daemonheart, plasma pistol and sigil of corruption. That would give Kranon a 2+/4++ along with IWND. And he'd be getting something like 6 attacks on the charge, and with a juiced up sword, those attacks are at S7 - S6 outside of the charge - with Instant Death.

I'm not familiar with what he needs to power up his sword, but we're assuming that he manages to avoid Azrael for the entire game until he gets S7. If I'm going up against a chaos lord with that much gear, I'm going to make him the prime target of Azrael and a command squad or Deathwing Knight squad. Not going to let him get near a tactical squad or scouts.

To power up his sword, he needs to kill models in close combat. 1 Kill = +1S, 3 Kills = AP2, 5 Kills = +1S, 10 Kills = Instant Death

I vote DA. Crimson Slaughter a splinter group, while DA are a legion.

The CS don't even have true chaos veterans... they're going to get rolled against any of the DA Knights, Deathwing, Ravenwing, even a Greenwing force won't struggle with the CS.

 Lobukia wrote:
The CS don't even have true chaos veterans... they're going to get rolled against any of the DA Knights, Deathwing, Ravenwing, even a Greenwing force won't struggle with the CS.

Yep haha. Deathwing Knights vs CS anything? Oh, we have four S6 AP3 weapons hitting on initiative, and one S6 AP2 on initiative....