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Made in au
Guardsman with Flashlight




Perth, Australia

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/james-ritchie-resigns-as-womens-officer-at-tuu/story-fnq2o7dd-1227297386040

A MALE university student has stepped down from his position as women’s officer at the Tasmania University Union (TUU), after students campaigned for a woman to be put in the role instead.
James Ritchie claims he was “democratically and constitutionally elected” to the role at the northern campus in student by-elections last month.
But a change.org petition started by the University of Tasmania’s Women’s Collective this week called for Mr Ritchie to be disqualified or resign. The petition attracted more than 1,000 signatures.
“In what have historically been male-dominated institutions, with a persistently patriarchal culture, it is important that women’s rights, needs, interests and concerns in the university context are voiced through someone elected to directly represent them,” the petition reads.
In a statement announcing his resignation on Wednesday, Mr Ritchie wrote he has been ridiculed for standing up for women’s rights and is “speechless at the hatred” directed towards him.
“It breaks my heart to see the bitterness and unwillingness to engage in mature and rational debate about women’s issues. I may not be a woman, but I am under no illusions as to the challenges women face,” he wrote.
TUU President Heidi La Paglia told news.com.au the job description did not specify the role had to go to a woman.
“It didn’t include the original clause, which was that the candidate must sign a statutory declaration to say they identify as a woman,” Ms La Paglia said. That was a mistake, she confirmed to news.com.au.
On Tuesday, the TUU student council agreed the clause should exist in the job description and the position should be held by a woman.
This decision upholds a 2000 ruling by the university’s Anti-Discrimination Officer that the Women’s Officer must identify as a woman “on the grounds that the role exists to advocate for women as a group who experience oppression in relation to men,” the change.org petition states.
Ms La Paglia says the female student body wants to be represented by a woman, not a man.
“Because the position is a representative position, it does need to be held by someone who represents women.
“I’m sure [Mr Ritchie’s] intentions were good and it’s great that he wants to stand up for women. But there are other ways to do it.
“There’s a difference between standing up for women’s issues and taking a women’s representative position.”
Mr Ritchie said his capacity to address issues such as women’s safety on campus and greater female participation is now limited.
“The awareness campaigns I intended to run surrounding domestic violence, sexual violence and particularly the #HeForShe campaign would now be ... problematic.”
Mr Ritchie said women’s issues needed to be faced with the support of men, citing Emma Watson’s now famous UN speech.

“Emma Watson called for male leadership in addressing women’s issues and ... expressed that men are not the problem but rather the solution.
“What kind of example and precedent does this set for other men interested and eager to speak out against female discrimination and injustice?” Mr Ritchie said.
Tasmania’s anti-discrimination commissioner Robin Banks told AAP there was no legal reason why a man could not occupy the role of women’s officer.
Mr Ritchie could not be reached for comment. The UOT Women’s Collective has been contacted for comment.
Mr Ritchie’s full resignation letter can be read here.
What do you think? Can a man be appointed to a role representing women? Comment below and let us know.
rebecca.sullivan@news.com.au


http://www.scribd.com/doc/261290730/James-Ritchie-s-resignation-letter#scribd

So this popped up when i was lurking on reddit.
So what does dakka think?
was the words of HeForShe lost or should men always take the back seat when it comes to equality in the genders?

Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist-.
George Carlin 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





It's clear that all people who want him removed are sexists.

On the other hand, though, you're better off with a woman because she's a woman. It's the same as if a white would represent the black community...it's about representation / identification and thus you're better off picking someone who fits the image.

   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I feel like he won an election (absent evidence otherwise) free and fairly, and if some students aren't happy about that, they should address it in the next election, because that is how it should work.




 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

I agree.

Emma Watson makes a good point, too.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Sigvatr wrote:
On the other hand, though, you're better off with a woman because she's a woman. It's the same as if a white would represent the black community...it's about representation / identification and thus you're better off picking someone who fits the image.


Indeed. Incidentally, 47 years there's been 20 ministers for Indigenous Affairs, and the count is 19 white people and 1 dude with an aboriginal grandmother (Mal Brough, if anyone is interested).

So compared to that, I don't think there's much argument to get too worked up about one position in a student union.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
I feel like he won an election (absent evidence otherwise) free and fairly, and if some students aren't happy about that, they should address it in the next election, because that is how it should work.


It's an extremely minor role in a student union. There's an outside chance he was the only person who voted.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/09 08:46:16


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

If the female student body don't want him there as claimed, how was he democratically elected?

It's possible that it resulted from men voting but it would be a funny sort of democracy where men could vote for the women's representative but men could not stand for the position because it's apparently nothing to do with them anyway. Unless interest in student politics is really low I don't believe you could organise enough people to troll vote for a man into the position either. Where were all the dissenting voices when he stood for election? Didn't anyone care? If not then, why now? Doesn't add up.

If he was democratically elected, it's rarther dubious they could change the rules afterwards to oust him. But that's politics, I've seen student politics before, shenanigans and obvious self interest or outright bloody mindedness just to push a particular agenda, one day they'll be running the country.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/09 08:48:57


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It's possible that it resulted from men voting but it would be a funny sort of democracy where men could vote for the women's representative but men could not stand for the position because it's apparently nothing to do with them anyway. Unless interest in student politics is really low I don't believe you could organise enough people to troll vote for a man into the position either.


Interest in student politics is very low, yes. I can't speak for UTT specifically, but generally there's an incestuous collection of lefties who roll on from year to year, occasionally upset by an injection of first year rightwing ideologues that typically give up the first time they have to study for mid-terms. Most students only know they exist because they sometimes venture out to hand out pamphlets about something or other, and everyone has to walk past avoiding eye contact unless they talk to you.

And it wasn't a troll vote. The guy seemed to want to honestly serve in the position, and seemed genuinely upset at the backlash.

If he was democratically elected, it's rarther dubious they could change the rules afterwards to oust him.


No-one changed any rules. People complained, and the guy thought the best thing was to resign. Which is understandable, given the backlash and media attention it would have been hard to serve in the position.

Really the only thing worth discussing is the backlash. I understand the idea that the person best suited to represent a group's interests is somebody from that group... but if it didn't work out that way one time is the best option to hound a well-intentioned volunteer until they quit. I'd say pretty obviously not, but well, this is student politics, I'm sure something even stupider will happen somewhere tomorrow.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/09 08:55:38


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 sebster wrote:
I understand the idea that the person best suited to represent a group's interests is somebody from that group...


That argument hinges on the assumption that no one outside that particular group can understand their particular situation, that this outsider would not have the intellectual or empathical ability to put him- or herself in the group's shoes.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






Sometimes being empathetic is enough, sometimes it isn't; pretending to be A isn't always the same as actually being A. Oh world why must you be so complex instead of simple?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/09 10:02:39


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Two things pop out at me.
1. They have universities in Tasmania? How do they survive the Tasmanian Devil?
2. When I saw this "University of Tasmania’s Women’s Collective" I got scared. Someone hold me!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in au
Guardsman with Flashlight




Perth, Australia

 Frazzled wrote:
Two things pop out at me.
1. They have universities in Tasmania? How do they survive the Tasmanian Devil?
2. When I saw this "University of Tasmania’s Women’s Collective" I got scared. Someone hold me!


i admit i laughed

Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist-.
George Carlin 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Being a man who supports women's rights you get queer treatment from both sides
Men because you are seen as both a traitor and as less of a man or somehow seen as someone who is just doing it for the sex.
Women because the sex thing above, but also because you don't seemy to have a dog in the fight, when you could very well do.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Ouze wrote:
I feel like he won an election (absent evidence otherwise) free and fairly, and if some students aren't happy about that, they should address it in the next election, because that is how it should work.

My thoughts exactly.

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Being a man who supports women's rights you get queer treatment from both sides
Men because you are seen as both a traitor and as less of a man or somehow seen as someone who is just doing it for the sex.
Women because the sex thing above, but also because you don't seemy to have a dog in the fight, when you could very well do.


I have a solution. Act like if anyone even looks at you funny you'll bite their face off, and no one will mess with you. Let TBone the Magnificent show you the way...

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

 sebster wrote:
 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It's possible that it resulted from men voting but it would be a funny sort of democracy where men could vote for the women's representative but men could not stand for the position because it's apparently nothing to do with them anyway. Unless interest in student politics is really low I don't believe you could organise enough people to troll vote for a man into the position either.


Interest in student politics is very low, yes. I can't speak for UTT specifically, but generally there's an incestuous collection of lefties who roll on from year to year, occasionally upset by an injection of first year rightwing ideologues that typically give up the first time they have to study for mid-terms. Most students only know they exist because they sometimes venture out to hand out pamphlets about something or other, and everyone has to walk past avoiding eye contact unless they talk to you.

And it wasn't a troll vote. The guy seemed to want to honestly serve in the position, and seemed genuinely upset at the backlash.

If he was democratically elected, it's rarther dubious they could change the rules afterwards to oust him.


No-one changed any rules. People complained, and the guy thought the best thing was to resign. Which is understandable, given the backlash and media attention it would have been hard to serve in the position.

Really the only thing worth discussing is the backlash. I understand the idea that the person best suited to represent a group's interests is somebody from that group... but if it didn't work out that way one time is the best option to hound a well-intentioned volunteer until they quit. I'd say pretty obviously not, but well, this is student politics, I'm sure something even stupider will happen somewhere tomorrow.


I thought they wanted to retroactively apply a 'women only' clause that hadn't been included. I don't understand why this wasn't addressed earlier in the election process and before he won the position.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
I feel like he won an election (absent evidence otherwise) free and fairly, and if some students aren't happy about that, they should address it in the next election, because that is how it should work.

My thoughts exactly.


Well we all know any actual election was probably voted on by 7 people, all of whom are probably involved and trying to improve their resume. No one in university actually pays attention to student elections. That takes away from other far more important priorities, like spring break in Padre.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Being a man who supports women's rights you get queer treatment from both sides
Men because you are seen as both a traitor and as less of a man or somehow seen as someone who is just doing it for the sex.
Women because the sex thing above, but also because you don't seemy to have a dog in the fight, when you could very well do.


I have a wife and a daughter. I have two dogs in the fight.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






I agree, I have two nieces I care about alot, so I do think think it's ridiculous that a man can't help or even be a leader, or teaching other men what it really means to be a feminist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Being a man who supports women's rights you get queer treatment from both sides
Men because you are seen as both a traitor and as less of a man or somehow seen as someone who is just doing it for the sex.
Women because the sex thing above, but also because you don't seemy to have a dog in the fight, when you could very well do.


I have a solution. Act like if anyone even looks at you funny you'll bite their face off, and no one will mess with you. Let TBone the Magnificent show you the way...

Sorly, but I follow the great chihuahua anklebiter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/09 16:49:04


5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





The Beach

Poor guy. Sounded like he well and truly wanted to do some good.

Hopefully he learned his lesson.

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

True Scale Space Marines: Tutorial, Posing, Conversions and other madness. The Brief and Humorous History of the Horus Heresy

The Ultimate Badasses: Colonial Marines 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Pull back the curtains of platitude and take a long look at identity politics on the ground: amateur Machiavellians scrambling for power on the pettiest scales imaginable.

   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Isn't this a text book case of sexism? They hate him precisely because of his gender. If the majority of student voters voted for him and wanted him in the position as opposed to say a female candidate, what's the problem?

Though that begs the question - who's eligible vote for the woman's rep position - is it just female students? Or do all students, males included, get vote? And is such a position really necessary? Doesn't it's existence risk polarising students along gender lines?

As for my own experience with student politics...I let my Student Union membership lapse after my first year, never once voted and binned any electoral material. I had more important and interesting things to spend my time on than popularity contests. (Miniature wargaming mostly. )

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/14 16:45:07


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The fact that he resigned supports that he was sincere. The fact that his critics denounced him on the basis of gender supports that they are not.

   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Won't it be fething hilarious if he's replaced with another man?
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The rule is now that the office can only be filled by a woman.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Manchu wrote:
The rule is now that the office can only be filled by a woman.

if this were the US and that was a public university, it would be unconstitutional.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

"Unconstitutional" is not a dirty word, Frazzled.

   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 Manchu wrote:
"Unconstitutional" is not a dirty word, Frazzled.

it very much is. If you accept federal funds, you cannot do stuff like that.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

What I meant was, who gives a feth whether something happening in Australia is unconstitutional in the American sense?

   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Isn't this a text book case of sexism? They hate him precisely because of his gender. If the majority of student voters voted for him and wanted him in the position as opposed to say a female candidate, what's the problem?

Though that begs the question - who's eligible vote for the woman's rep position - is it just female students? Or do all students, males included, get vote? And is such a position really necessary? Doesn't it's existence risk polarising students along gender lines?

As for my own experience with student politics...I let my Student Union membership lapse after my first year, never once voted and binned any electoral material. I had more important and interesting things to spend my time on than popularity contests. (Miniature wargaming mostly. )


yes, it is sexist, and it is discriminatory,

had the roles been reversed, with a female being excluded from holding a position that dealt with male rights, it would be called out as such.

however, its a male, so its ok to discriminate based on gender.

Maybe if a transgender woman (genetic male) ran it would cause some flakk if they asked her to resign,

but as it is, its just another notch on the long list of double standards.

If he did a good job, he should keep it, free from pressure to resign.

Jobs dont get to say "men only" so when things crop up with "female only" requirements, it should be alarming to anyone with legitimate concern over gender equality.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Sorry, I should have been more specific -- it seems that the new rule is that the officeholder must identify as a woman.

   
 
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