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Curious to know if there is official ruling on if Farsight can take FW models.

Example:
An XV109 Y’vahra battlesuit is a Fast Attack choice in a
Codex: Tau Empire detachment.

Does that preclude Farsight from taking it?

If it has Faction: Tau Empire it can be taken by Farsight Enclaves.

I dont know anything about factions....only have tje 6th ed rulss still at the moment.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
I dont know anything about factions....only have tje 6th ed rulss still at the moment.

We can't really help you if you haven't read the current rule book. Army list creation changed dramatically between 6th Edition and 7th Edition. I would strongly suggest you pick up a new rule book and give it a read.

Several of the current Codices are impossible to make an army with under the 6th Edition rules. Examples are... Codex: Harlequins, Codex: Legion of the Damned, Codex: Skitarii, etc.

 FlingitNow wrote:
If it has Faction: Tau Empire it can be taken by Farsight Enclaves.

I just made a topic yesterday on this same idea. I asked if Firebase Support Cadre Riptide can take Earth Caste Pilot Array since it also says Faction: Tau Empire. People all said no

notredameguy10 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
If it has Faction: Tau Empire it can be taken by Farsight Enclaves.

I just made a topic yesterday on this same idea. I asked if Firebase Support Cadre Riptide can take Earth Caste Pilot Array since it also says Faction: Tau Empire. People all said no

The answer to your question is still no. This thread doesn't change that.

Only Combined Arms Detachments and Allied Detachments marked as Farsight Enclaves Detachments can take Farsight Enclaves Signature Systems.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
If it has Faction: Tau Empire it can be taken by Farsight Enclaves.

I just made a topic yesterday on this same idea. I asked if Firebase Support Cadre Riptide can take Earth Caste Pilot Array since it also says Faction: Tau Empire. People all said no

They were right (though probably for the wrong reasons). A FE detachment has to take bonding knives on everyone that can and has to include a unit of 3 crisis suits as a troops choice. The later is impossible to achieve in a FBSC therefore you can not designate the FBSC as a FE detachment.

 FlingitNow wrote:
If it has Faction: Tau Empire it can be taken by Farsight Enclaves.

Rules support, please? I don't think this is correct at all.

From memory the 6th-originated Forgeworld units stated they could be taken in a "Codex: Tau Empire army". The Y'Vahra for example on the other hand, designed in 7th with multiple detachments in mind, states it's "a Fast Attack choice in a Codex: Tau Empire detachment."

With the changeover to 7th from 6th most, if not all (?) instances of "army" we have been told to replace with "detachment" which is also pointed to by the Y'Vahra's wording. We also run into trouble if we try to assume a Farsight Enclaves detachment is a Codex: Tau Empire army because it's clearly not.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
If it has Faction: Tau Empire it can be taken by Farsight Enclaves.

Rules support, please? I don't think this is correct at all.

From memory the 6th-originated Forgeworld units stated they could be taken in a "Codex: Tau Empire army". The Y'Vahra for example on the other hand, designed in 7th with multiple detachments in mind, states it's "a Fast Attack choice in a Codex: Tau Empire detachment."

With the changeover to 7th from 6th most, if not all (?) instances of "army" we have been told to replace with "detachment" which is also pointed to by the Y'Vahra's wording. We also run into trouble if we try to assume a Farsight Enclaves detachment is a Codex: Tau Empire army because it's clearly not.

How do you take units for a FE detachment?

 FlingitNow wrote:
How do you take units for a FE detachment?

As a Farsight Enclaves Detachment chosen using Codex Supplement: Farsight Enclaves and Codex: Tau Empire.

That makes it a Codex Supplement: Farsight Enclaves and Codex: Tau Empire plus whatever codices you may have included detachments from army.

Either way though, faction does not come into it by the rules at all.

EDIT: Hell, even the Farsight Enclaves supplement (pre-FAQ) defines a Farsight Enclaves army as its own thing (and defines it as its own detachment post-FAQ). You've little ground to stand on if you want to call what has always been clearly defined as being a distinct army/detachment from a Codex: Tau Empire army/detachment.

So when I take a CAD and nominate it a FE detachment, how do I know what units I can take? (Read the FE supplement and the CAD rules for the answer).

 FlingitNow wrote:
So when I take a CAD and nominate it a FE detachment, how do I know what units I can take? (Read the FE supplement and the CAD rules for the answer).

"A Farsight Enclaves army is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire."

You've still not shown that choosing its units from Codex: Tau Empire makes it a Codex: Tau Empire army, and this line would suggest it is not.

IIRC (and I may be wrong), FW said the various Riptide variants were not available to Farsight Enclaves.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
So when I take a CAD and nominate it a FE detachment, how do I know what units I can take? (Read the FE supplement and the CAD rules for the answer).

"A Farsight Enclaves army is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire."

You've still not shown that choosing its units from Codex: Tau Empire makes it a Codex: Tau Empire army, and this line would suggest it is not.

Cool so we know we use Codex: Tau Empire. So what can I include in my CAD? Can I take Chaos Space Marines? What does the CAD tell us?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Cool so we know we use Codex: Tau Empire. So what can I include in my CAD? Can I take Chaos Space Marines? What does the CAD tell us?

The rules for a Combined Arms Detachment say nothing about that detachment defining what kind of army you have and nor do the rules for factions.

If you have a rules argument to make, do so with your own stated rules support, not by asking questions to get me to do it (or pull it apart) for you.

So let me try and understand this....

A straight Tau: Empire force gets the Battle Forged bonus.

A straight Enclave force gets the Battle Forged bonus.

But a combined force has to be unbound?

Is that correct?

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Cool so we know we use Codex: Tau Empire. So what can I include in my CAD? Can I take Chaos Space Marines? What does the CAD tell us?

The rules for a Combined Arms Detachment say nothing about that detachment defining what kind of army you have and nor do the rules for factions.

If you have a rules argument to make, do so with your own stated rules support, not by asking questions to get me to do it (or pull it apart) for you.

I think you need to read the CAD rules again. It restricts you to taking units from the same faction. So we have permission to use Tau Empire units in our FE detachment if that detachment is a CAD or and AD we have permission to select certain battlefield roles and all of those can be filled by any relevant TE faction unit.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
So let me try and understand this....

A straight Tau: Empire force gets the Battle Forged bonus.

A straight Enclave force gets the Battle Forged bonus.

But a combined force has to be unbound?

Is that correct?

No, they're separate detachments which each get whatever detachment pr formation bonuses their chosen detachment provides (usually either a Combined Arms Detachment or Allied Detachment).

The issue with your original question is that most of the Forgeworld rules use an outdated term to describe what the units can be taken in. The term "army" has been generally replaced with the term "detachment" in updated material but the Forgeworld material has not been updated. The debate FlingitNow and I are having is that we don't actually have a definition for what makes a "Codex: Tau Empire army" or at least it's not straightforward.

feth I must have taken stupid pills this morning because I'm not getting these new rules....even having read them over and over....lol

 FlingitNow wrote:
I think you need to read the CAD rules again. It restricts you to taking units from the same faction. So we have permission to use Tau Empire units in our FE detachment if that detachment is a CAD or and AD we have permission to select certain battlefield roles and all of those can be filled by any relevant TE faction unit.

The term at issue is "army" and not "faction" so this is irrelevant. The Forgeworld rules make no mention of faction.

You're talking about using Codex: Tau Empire units in Farsight Enclave detachments but this does not make it a Codex: Tau Empire army. At best it makes it an army chosen from Codex: Tau Empire and Codex Supplement Farsight Enclaves. What if you add a Company of the Great Wolf Detachment from Champions of Fenris? Is it still a Codex: Tau Empire army?

 TheMeanDM wrote:
So let me try and understand this....

A straight Tau: Empire force gets the Battle Forged bonus.

A straight Enclave force gets the Battle Forged bonus.

But a combined force has to be unbound?

Is that correct?

Nope it is impossible to do a combined unbound FE & TE army. The only legal way to do it is to take 2 detachments one of FE and the Other of TE, neither can be an Allied Detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The term at issue is "army" and not "faction" so this is irrelevant. The Forgeworld rules make no mention of faction.

You're talking about using Codex: Tau Empire units in Farsight Enclave detachments but this does not make it a Codex: Tau Empire army. At best it makes it an army chosen from Codex: Tau Empire and Codex Supplement Farsight Enclaves. What if you add a Company of the Great Wolf Detachment from Champions of Fenris? Is it still a Codex: Tau Empire army?

Yes if they say only available to TE detachments then they can't be taken in a FE detachment. My original point was if they had TE Faction they were eligible.

They have the Tau Empire Faction, however, as the OP posted, they are only available in a Tau Empire Detachment.

If you take a Detachment of Farsight Enclaves is it a Tau Empire Detachment?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yes if they say only available to TE detachments then they can't be taken in a FE detachment. My original point was if they had TE Faction they were eligible.

That's not what the rules say, though. I asked in my first reply for some rules support and you've not provided anything to say that when Forgeworld states, "can be taken in a Codex: Tau Empire army" they mean, "can be taken in Faction: Tau Empire detachments".

So please, if you wish to stand by your post, provide rules evidence to support that being Faction: Tau Empire is enough to qualify as being a Codex: Tau Empire army.

In the OP's example it clearly cannot be taken in a Farsight Enclaves detachment as that is not a Tau Empire detachment, so in response to the example given your reply is incorrect. For other examples which use the term "Codex: Tau Empire army" you must prove equivalence between "Faction: Tau Empire" and "Codex: Tau Empire army".

That's not what the rules say, though. I asked in my first reply for some rules support and you've not provided anything to say that when Forgeworld states, "can be taken in a Codex: Tau Empire army" they mean, "can be taken in Faction: Tau Empire detachments".

Why would I need rules to say that when I've not made that claim.

If you take a Detachment of Farsight Enclaves is it a Tau Empire Detachment?

No it is not.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why would I need rules to say that when I've not made that claim.

Sigh. I owe you an apology for misunderstanding and conflating your point with something else, though I think a simple, "I'm agreeing with you, you idiot" may have been simpler. My apologies; we are in practical agreement.

 Happyjew wrote:
IIRC (and I may be wrong), FW said the various Riptide variants were not available to Farsight Enclaves.

I remember them walking it back before their Facebook went dark, probably GW mandate.

The way I see it it would not be a problem.

XV109 are available to a Codex Tau army and the Farsight supplements let you turn your tau army into a farsight army. Everything from the codex is available to the supplement (even ethereals...) so why not additions to the codex?

Also FE can take suits as troops. But they don't have to.... only that is they choose to at least one unit must be 3 suits strong

9unit9 wrote:
The way I see it it would not be a problem.

XV109 are available to a Codex Tau army and the Farsight supplements let you turn your tau army into a farsight army. Everything from the codex is available to the supplement (even ethereals...) so why not additions to the codex?

Also FE can take suits as troops. But they don't have to.... only that is they choose to at least one unit must be 3 suits strong

This is incorrect. "In a Farsight Enclaves detachment, all XV8 Crisis Teams are troops choices instead of elites choices. However, when choosing a Farsight Enclaves detachment, you must include at least one XV8 Crisis Team that consists of three models (not including drones)."

You do not turn a Tau Empire detachment into a Farsight Enclaves detachment; you follow mandatory rules that make it a Farsight Enclaves detachment, which is not the same as a Tau Empire detachment or Codex: Tau Empire army.