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Do Knight allies get the 5+ IWND from the Iron hands special rules?

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Do Knight allies get the 5+ IWND from the Iron hands special rules?

Are they part of the Iron Hands Detachment?

Its a CAD tournament. You can have allies. Idk what youre asking

Or if i took an Adamantine Lance formation, would it benefit?

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Its a CAD tournament. You can have allies. Idk what youre asking

Or if i took an Adamantine Lance formation, would it benefit?

The Iron Hands Chapter bonuses apply to Iron Hands Detachments. An allied Detachment would not benefit, no.
But an Imperial Knight taken as LoW for an Iron Hands detachment would indeed benefit. So a Knight model could benefit, depending on the situation.

Hmmm... how do formations work then? Could I take a pair of knights as a LOW? or a formation as a LOW?

Formations are another type of detachment.
You can't take a detachment to fill an FOC slot (which is what a LOW slot is)

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Hmmm... how do formations work then? Could I take a pair of knights as a LOW? or a formation as a LOW?

Lord of War is 1 Unit. You cannot take a pair of Knights as 1 Unit. Also, only the Forgeworld Knigths can be LoWs, as per their rules, have you read those?

As for how Detachments or Formations are organised, have a look at this easy representation:

 Jidmah wrote:
There is no limitation of what detachments/formations your army is made up from, unless those are imposed by the detachment itself. For example, you could not have two formations which force you to make on of its members your warlord.

See this picture for an example of a perfectly legal battleforged army:

Holy smokes.... that has 6 armies in one..... Mind = blown.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Holy smokes.... that has 6 armies in one..... Mind = blown.

6 "Detachments".

From the rulebook, you can have as many Detachments as you want. In the CAD Tournament you are attending, find out which detachments are allowed:
- CAD
- Allied Detachment
- Formations
- Adamantine Lance (Formation)
- Ork Horde Detachment
- etc

The list of possible detachments goes on.... It just depends what the restriction is.

Also, Chapter Tactics, like the Iron Hands one, apply only to 1 Detachment. "Army-wide" bonuses (almost) no longer exist.

Its Battle forged only, two detachments no duplicates. No come the apoc allies

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Its Battle forged only, two detachments no duplicates. No come the apoc allies

Yeah, so you could take 1 Adamantine Lance (Formation) and 1 Kabalite Raiding Party (Formation) for example. Not an issue.

But back to your original question:
If you take an Iron Hands CAD, only the Units found in that CAD can benefit from IWND.

Any other Formations, Allied Detachments, CADs , etc would not have the Chapter Tactics (and IWND)

Damn. Good to know. But it does mean that if I take a Castigator Knight as a LOW, then 3x Regular knights all I need is a few marines to fill in troops.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Damn. Good to know. But it does mean that if I take a Castigator Knight as a LOW, then 3x Regular knights all I need is a few marines to fill in troops.

You could indeed, if you get HQ+2 Troops in the Castigator's CAD, which is Iron Hands so he (only) would have IWND

Just being part of the CAD does not mean you get the rules, the unit also needs to have the Chapter Tactics ability listed in its profile which most vehicles and Knights don't have.

Lusiphur wrote:
Just being part of the CAD does not mean you get the rules, the unit also needs to have the Chapter Tactics ability listed in its profile which most vehicles and Knights don't have.

Iron Hands specifically give their bonus to vehicles despite not having the Chapter Tactics rule.

Lusiphur wrote:
Just being part of the CAD does not mean you get the rules, the unit also needs to have the Chapter Tactics ability listed in its profile which most vehicles and Knights don't have.

Except for the fact that the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics rule specifically says "All vehicles and characters in this detachment ... (even though vehicles do not have the Chapter Tactics special rule)."

Right, brain fart on my part.

So in conclusion, a Castigator as a LOW gets IWND and its a douchey HQ choice when you give it 2-3 Knight body guards and tech marines repairing its ass everyturn.....

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
So in conclusion, a Castigator as a LOW gets IWND and its a douchey HQ choice when you give it 2-3 Knight body guards and tech marines repairing its ass everyturn.....

Yes. Prepare to lose friends.

Or win tournaments.... Tech marines ftw.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Or win tournaments.... Tech marines ftw.

Nah. Everybody expects Imperial knights now. Drop-melta sternguard ftw!

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Or win tournaments.... Tech marines ftw.

Nah. Everybody expects Imperial knights now. Drop-melta sternguard ftw!

Yeah, i was also going to point out that Melta Alpha-strikes will wreck/explode the Knight before it gets a chance to IWND or Techmarine repair. At the low price of about 150pts for such a Melta-Squad.

No, because Knights are not in the SM codex and therefore do not have the "Chapter Tactics" special rule.

 natpri771 wrote:
No, because Knights are not in the SM codex and therefore do not have the "Chapter Tactics" special rule.

None of the vehicles in the space marine codex have the Chapter Tactics rule. That why Iron Hands specify that they give IWND to vehicles in the detachment despite them not having CT.

And since a Knight taken as a LoW is a vehicle in the detachment, it gets the benefit too,

Iron hands chapter tactics only affect their vehicles. The forge world imperial knights are imperial knights faction, they can just fill a LOW slot. I don't think the chapter tactics can affect units that aren't from the space marine codex (or stated to come from said book in their description)

Unless there is something I am missing...

What you are missing is that a unit filling a spot in your army is a unit in your army. FW Imperial Knights have a special rule that allows them to be taken as a LoW for Imperium of Man armies. If you take a FW Knight as the LoW in an Iron Hands army, the Knight is an Iron Hands vehicle per the rules for building an army with an FoC. The Iron Hands CT applies to vehicles in the army, of which a FW Knight would be when filling the armies LoW slot. Knights from the IK codex always fill their own detachment, while FW Knights have that special rule.

SJ

Gotcha, I never would have considered running it that way, because the knights have a faction. If I had prefered enemy "imperial knights" would I not get the benefit if it was in a marine detachment?
I don't deny the RAW, but I just can't see a separate faction gaining the benefit of another faction (whose name is in the description no less) they aren't a part of. This seem screwy to me...


Edit for autocorrect

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Gotcha, I never would have considered running it that way, because the knights have a faction. If I had prefered enemy "imperial knights" would I not get the benefit if it was in a marine detachment?
I don't deny the RAW, but I just can't see a separate faction gaining the benefit of another faction (whose name is in the description no less) they aren't a part of. This seem screwy to me...


Edit for autocorrect

The FW Knights taken as part of a Iron Hands LoW would indeed be of the Irons Hands Faction.

So it would depend if you have PE(Imperial Knight) or PE(Imperial Knight Faction) and if those existed in the first place

The question is: How can you take a Knight as LoW in a CAD?

Edit: I missed the Forge World reference.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Gotcha, I never would have considered running it that way, because the knights have a faction. If I had prefered enemy "imperial knights" would I not get the benefit if it was in a marine detachment?
I don't deny the RAW, but I just can't see a separate faction gaining the benefit of another faction (whose name is in the description no less) they aren't a part of. This seem screwy to me...


Edit for autocorrect

This would really be no different from other models that exist in more than one Codex/Army List.

Preferred Enemy (Astra Militarum) works against Tempestus Scions selected as part of a Codex: Astra Militarum Detachment/Formation. It does not work against Tempestus Scions selected as part of a Codex: Militarum Tempestus Detachment/Formation.

Imperial Knights are the same way. They can belong to Faction: Imperial Knights OR any IoM Faction that can take a CAD (thus eliminating things like Codex: Legion of the Damned or Codex: Inquisition).