Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hm... 12 days to go and 5k short of the terrain sprues. Come on people, bully, intimidate, blackmail or simply pester people until they're backing this!

Seems a sure thing it'll pass that goal. A bit worrying that it'll go up against zombicide in a few days though.

Whose are the black armoured Karists in that last update? Because DAYUM they may have just converted me to the Karist side.


I think they look SO much better than the official scheme with white armour.

That would be our very own grey_death's army

They paint up quickly when black, that's for sure. The main reason we went with white for the official scheme is that black is a real pain to get flexible colour balance with in artwork, and is really hard to photograph without great lighting set ups.

*aghem* I believe that was posted on the wrong account >.>

Today's update features a whole pile of additional model colour schemes. Take a peek

Yeah, they do look better in black. Good job Grey Death!

It seems like this one has been floundering a bit. I have been on the edge (heh pun intended) in terms of pledging or not.

I figured I would list my concerns that I have been mulling over in my head and maybe we can apply some group think to help push the kickstarter forward.

Positives:
+ The background sounds awesome, its a really cool way to add in the feeling of apocalypse while still retaining some measure of hope. It is really really good!

+ Sprues shown for most models. No surprises in what will arrive in the mail when it ships. You will get quality stuff here!

Neutral:
+ Models in the pictures seem just good. I feel like what is missing is a *wow* model. Something that is a "must have."

+ Terrain sprue --- I know I will get flak for this, but hear me out. I have tons and tons of terrain bits including doors and what not so I do not really have a use for it. (I play a lot of infinity and have a stupid amount of terrain as I run the local tournaments and slow grow leagues --- I have multiple tables worth of terrain in my car at all times.). I would have preferred to see actual terrain elements.

+ Full rule set not finished / unavailable -- For smaller games I like rulesets that I can read fully before committing. Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.

+ Rules "similar" to other games -- The rules as presented remind me a lot of Bolt Action and Beyond the Gates of Antares. I play the former but not the later. There are a few differences, but they seem minor. It is hard to predict how minor they will be on the battlefield -- i.e. it may actually be drastic. I don't have good sense of how things will play out in a full game.

+ Add ons: I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality. I would love to see something like: 200$ gets you an X point list. If I am going to sell some of my friends on the game, I need to let them know a realistic number to expect to be able to play a reasonable game (i.e. Infinity 150-175, Bolt Action 200-225, Warhammer/40k 350-400). This is important for budgeting, not just the kickstarter but looking forward to the future as well.

Negative:
+ Card game -- on the one hand it adds more value to the pledge, but on the other hand the team now has another thing they need to juggle. My worry is that either the card game or the main game will end up not polished. The team is small and I am not confident that they can juggle everything. I keep flip flopping on this one as it looks really interesting.

+ Pacing -- the kickstarter is very slow in its pacing. The initial excitement has dwindled and I am now looking at things more objectively.

+ Ho hum stretch goals (for me) -- I do not have anything to look forward to. I plan on using my own tokens to custom mades ones for suppression, dice I have tons of already in the D6 variety, terrain sprue for me is less appealing, and I typically use custom bases as well.

Zreef.

Just a quicky reply. The card game is a stand alone card game. NOT an expandable one (currently). So it's not something the crew HAS to focus on. It is essentially complete, and they don't have to touch it ever again.

The pacing has been good in my opinion. It's better that they promise stuff as they come. And not overload themselves at the start. They are doing what then can when they know they can.

 Vanguard-13 wrote:
Zreef.

Just a quicky reply. The card game is a stand alone card game. NOT an expandable one (currently). So it's not something the crew HAS to focus on. It is essentially complete, and they don't have to touch it ever again.

The pacing has been good in my opinion. It's better that they promise stuff as they come. And not overload themselves at the start. They are doing what then can when they know they can.

Ah, I did not realize it was already completed! I thought it was still in the works. Its good that it is not an expandable one.

zreef wrote:


+ Full rule set not finished / unavailable -- For smaller games I like rulesets that I can read fully before committing. Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.

If you pledge for the box set you will get two factions so you would be able to play, even if you are the only person in your area who decides to jump in.

zreef wrote:
+ Add ons: I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality. I would love to see something like: 200$ gets you an X point list. If I am going to sell some of my friends on the game, I need to let them know a realistic number to expect to be able to play a reasonable game (i.e. Infinity 150-175, Bolt Action 200-225, Warhammer/40k 350-400). This is important for budgeting, not just the kickstarter but looking forward to the future as well.

The box set contains enough minis to play a smaller scale game, the ideal size is between 20 - 30 models according to the KS video.

I would like to see Karists in 'cult robe' yellow/orange.

Fun, I think my faves are the yellow karist and the blue-grey empirian.

 Inspector #264 wrote:

zreef wrote:


+ Full rule set not finished / unavailable -- For smaller games I like rulesets that I can read fully before committing. Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.

If you pledge for the box set you will get two factions so you would be able to play, even if you are the only person in your area who decides to jump in.

zreef wrote:
+ Add ons: I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality. I would love to see something like: 200$ gets you an X point list. If I am going to sell some of my friends on the game, I need to let them know a realistic number to expect to be able to play a reasonable game (i.e. Infinity 150-175, Bolt Action 200-225, Warhammer/40k 350-400). This is important for budgeting, not just the kickstarter but looking forward to the future as well.

The box set contains enough minis to play a smaller scale game, the ideal size is between 20 - 30 models according to the KS video.

According to stuff they said earlier, the boxed set is about 2/3 the size of what they envision a "normal" game size being. With the caveat that there is still some balance tweaking to do, and upgrades can change point values and such.

The Epirians also, IIRC from what was said, more points in the boxed set before upgrades. With upgrades the two sides can even out, but the Epirians will have less upgrade freedom than the Karists.


So a "normal" sized game, building on the boxed set, might have another 6 Contractors and one more squad of drones. The Karists might add another squad of troopers and Minnows.

zreef wrote:
It seems like this one has been floundering a bit.

I'm not sure I agree with the term floundering. That implies that it is struggling to keep funded or falls in and out being funded. It is is at 200% of its amount which is great. I know we all want to see Kickstarters grow big, unlock great stretch goals (it is part of the excitement) but a lot of projects aren't really necessary for that.

zreef wrote:
+ Models in the pictures seem just good. I feel like what is missing is a *wow* model. Something that is a "must have."

I can somewhat agree. I'm hoping the wow comes with some of the newer units which weren't created yet, we only have concept art for them. I will say though the Hunter is pretty wow.. but I like robots. ^_^

zreef wrote:
I would have preferred to see actual terrain elements.

What do you mean by terrain elements, like what would you have preferred to see?

zreef wrote:
Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.

I think the rules will be fine, they'll be coming along. The base rules give you a pretty good idea so far what is capable. The good news about the base box, it comes with two factions so you already have everything you'll need to play with the core box.

zreef wrote:
I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality.

Honestly beyond the base game, you shouldn't need anything else. Given your other concerns it would be better to get the core set, play it out, see if you have friends interested before looking at investing further. There is no need to invest largely in the beginning, other than to help further the KS. Usually the best savings in the KS is from the base game and any exclusives if there are any. Everything else tends to come out better getting it later.

Just wondering if adding on the minatures only pledge to a boxset would create a more 'average' sized game? Thats if it would be possible to add it on in the pm.

Although doubling up on box sets would probably be better value in the long run.

seems a shame you couldn't do some bundle deal addons, like mantic did on DZ:I would be much more easier to handle production wise and I'm sure would boost the ks total towards the bases stretch goal.

It is reasonable to view the project as "foundering" because the number of backers/amount of pledges does not seem commensurate with how 'big' of a project the creators seem to be pushing.

Most of the funding came in a big push on day one, and it dropped off very quickly. The campaign doesn't have that nice, CMoN curve to it that, quite frankly, backers expect from a big, ambitious project.

Gradual taper, steady stream, big push. That's what folks look for. In contrast, ME had a "Dakka friends" day 1 and has since been dragging along with intermittent growth, and even some days of losses.

The campaign is obviously successful thus far, but it seems to have the character of a modest, small scale campaign from a garage business. That is a little incongruous with the way Spiral Arm has been presenting the product.

Hence the "foundering" observation really shouldn't be surprising, and is contextually apropos.

Maybe it has something to do with the project not needing the KS to happen. Its happening with or without it. So maybe people are being a little more cautious than normal because they can. They can wait till the rules are finalized or it hits retail. Its not something that needs support now or its not going to happen, which can feed into the rush you might associate with gambling that KS projects can feed.

I would also guess that a lot of people are waiting till the end when the next paycheck clears before officially backing. Sure, you can back out any time till the end date, but some people might not like having their payment info hanging in limbo. And maybe they want to see all the updates before deciding. And lets be honest, Wargamers are procrastinators.

Hey guys! I'm so glad my Karists have people more excited about the army! When models start hitting hobby desks out there I'll be sure to do a run down of how I painted them up! I even have some ideas for additional detailing that haven't quite made it into the army just yet but will be easy but striking against that black plate

I'm extremely excited to see the boys hitting the KS updates at long last and hope to keep adding to them soon.

I love the one with the ritualistic Cybel energy burn/scar on his eye. Brilliant!

The dark scheme looks fantastic, grey death! Nicely done

I disagree that we haven't seen a "Wow" model, as the Hunters are rather "Wow"-aful. The Karsists have the "Wow"less problem for me.

Mind you, I love the Karsist Infantry, am indifferent on the Angels, love the robots, and hate the crotchless chap infantry.

I think part of the problem with the "Wow" factor is the nature of at least one of the factions. The Epirians are lunchpail sci fi contractors. Their drones look bulky and clunky, like the retro-fitted cropdusters they are. It's appropriate to them, but the faction is by nature pretty plain Jane. The Hunter bots don't wow me, either, to be honest - they're a good, solid, very useful sci-fi robot design, but there's nothing very original about them. They'd blend in with any standard human sci-fi force. Which, again, is kind of the nature of the Epirian beast. Not so much Wow, but easy to slot in just about anywhere and look the part they're meant to play.

I like the Karists, but I'd be lying if I said I think they're the best power-armored troopers I've seen, or that Angel minnows are the most menacing, creepy alien designs out there. There's still potential there for their unrevealed models to Wow me, of course. I'm hoping the remaining models like the shadow walker, adult angel, guy who can detonate, etc. tie the whole faction together and put it over the top.

Otherwise, I'd say SAS has made a good, solid start with good, solid models - models that, all things considered, I want to own and will be staying in the campaign for. But to be honest, I do hope for better concept design work from SAS in the future. Compare the scarecrows to Afterlife's CRANE war drones, for example, or ME's flying drones with Afterlife's flying drones, and in my opinion you see how SAS could up their concept art / design game. Those CRANE war drones are bulky, military, boxy, etc., but they manage to be all of that while also looking kick-ass.

We've taken a specific approach with the 'wow' factor of the models. Every model is designed to complement the others, with much more shared design DNA across each faction than you'd see in almost any other wargame. From obvious things like the karist triple eye and glow locations, to much more subtle things such as identical angles and textures.

Each faction is designed to look fantastic when put together as a mixed arms force, with small, man sized and larger models framing each other and bringing out complementary details in a way that might not be obvious, but makes the whole thing a really pleasing aesthetic whole. If you are of the opinion that the models look good, then once you have a whole army together, it is going to look pretty special.

Finally, the large angel is being revealed next week, and above all else that is the model which got people saying 'wow' at Salute (almost universally!) which is why we've saved that one until the end

Regarding the few comments about kickstarter progress and speed, we are very happy with how things are progressing. While we'd of course love to have high 6 figures, we are keeping things straightforward to ensure we can deliver on time and to expectations, ensure we dont cripple our chances of widespread retail distribution and avoid falling into the logistics and shipping traps which have killed so many other large kickstarters. We are very happy, because there are very very few new sci-fi IP kickstarters which came out of nowhere and succeeded. Just off the top of my head there was Thon, War Prime, Fallen Frontiers (first kickstarter), Cyntopia, GoA and more who launched and failed to secure funding first time. Getting funded is the most important thing, not chasing records, and then maximising the number of backers is more important than the final dollar value as it provides a more stable base for us to build on. Delivering the best possible value and quality to our backers, and rewarding their loyalty and trust over the long term is our way forwards, and backers can rest assured that we will remember the faith they've put in us, and we will be looking after them and placing a special status on them for the very long term.

 Spiral Arm Studios wrote:
We've taken a specific approach with the 'wow' factor of the models. Every model is designed to complement the others, with much more shared design DNA across each faction than you'd see in almost any other wargame. From obvious things like the karist triple eye and glow locations, to much more subtle things such as identical angles and textures.

Each faction is designed to look fantastic when put together as a mixed arms force, with small, man sized and larger models framing each other and bringing out complementary details in a way that might not be obvious, but makes the whole thing a really pleasing aesthetic whole. If you are of the opinion that the models look good, then once you have a whole army together, it is going to look pretty special.

Finally, the large angel is being revealed next week, and above all else that is the model which got people saying 'wow' at Salute (almost universally!) which is why we've saved that one until the end

Regarding the few comments about kickstarter progress and speed, we are very happy with how things are progressing. While we'd of course love to have high 6 figures, we are keeping things straightforward to ensure we can deliver on time and to expectations, ensure we dont cripple our chances of widespread retail distribution and avoid falling into the logistics and shipping traps which have killed so many other large kickstarters. We are very happy, because there are very very few new sci-fi IP kickstarters which came out of nowhere and succeeded. Just off the top of my head there was Thon, War Prime, Fallen Frontiers (first kickstarter), Cyntopia, GoA and more who launched and failed to secure funding first time. Getting funded is the most important thing, not chasing records, and then maximising the number of backers is more important than the final dollar value as it provides a more stable base for us to build on. Delivering the best possible value and quality to our backers, and rewarding their loyalty and trust over the long term is our way forwards, and backers can rest assured that we will remember the faith they've put in us, and we will be looking after them and placing a special status on them for the very long term.

Exalted for being inspiring

 Grey Templar wrote:
Maybe it has something to do with the project not needing the KS to happen. Its happening with or without it. So maybe people are being a little more cautious than normal because they can. They can wait till the rules are finalized or it hits retail. Its not something that needs support now or its not going to happen, which can feed into the rush you might associate with gambling that KS projects can feed.

I would also guess that a lot of people are waiting till the end when the next paycheck clears before officially backing. Sure, you can back out any time till the end date, but some people might not like having their payment info hanging in limbo. And maybe they want to see all the updates before deciding. And lets be honest, Wargamers are procrastinators.

But that's the exact same situation with a Zombicide campaign, for example. It is a reality for lots of campaigns.

There is a lot of male minis in the factions, will there be female minis?

 Miss Dee wrote:
There is a lot of male minis in the factions, will there be female minis?

To add to your question, will there be female "heroic" miniatures? Like a captain or some such?

This is from the KS comments section:

Spiral Arm Studios USA wrote:we will eventually do some female Epirian Contractors but it is a long way off as parts would not so interchangeable with the male models, reducing potential poses. To counter the large amount of male figures we have, we've tried to ensure there are a lot of strong, inspiring and most importantly non-sexualised female characters in our fiction. It is our absolute goal to have strong female representation in the models, but the economic realities make that a long term goal for now.

Thanks for that Inspector #264, to add to that, we are extremely eager to create a range of female models as our universe is one of equality (everyone is doomed by the Maelstrom after all!), but we have to work on things one step at a time as we gear up.

Here's today's update! - a more detailed introduction to the Epirian Foundation. Enjoy!