So for real, how do you beat Tau or even come close to having fun against them?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**jakejackjake**

Martel732 wrote:
jakejackjake wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
If only that meant something. It's not about AP 2 wounds usually, it's about quantity of forced saves. And in that arena, marines SUCK.

Not really if you cause 20 wounds with no saves it's a lot better than forcing 40 saves with a 4 up

No it's statistically identical.

You think I didn't know that when I said it? In the long run it is. In that one game though it's a world of difference. I used that example intentionally. If you don't understand what I mean that is fine but a consistent army is easier to build for than one that relies on more high(low) roles than the others. The variance guarantees the rolls to come in more violent swings. So you're more likely to dominate an army totally, but also more likely to get totally blown out. If you get blown out or tabled with Space Marines in any way you played bad or built a terrible list. They are a much more consistent army than all others.

**Martel732**

Armies like Tau and Eldar can force so many 3+ saves that there are no violent swings over the course of a game. That's why they're so good and why Imperial firepower can't compete.

**Dakkamite**

New to 7th, wondering how to fight Tau with Orks. Not too concerned about the most cringeworthy builds as I flat out refuse to face more than one Riptide or other such unit, just wondering what experienced players would recommend in our arsenal to take on the fish'eads

the_scotsman wrote:
but nothing in it has a worthwhile answer to "I set up my figures on the board edge sitting on 3 maelstrom objectives and you will be tabled in 3 turns. I will never have to do anything in any phase except shooting"

Well theres your problem. Its like if you played some mission against Orks where the armies start 3" apart and cannot run away - its a terrible mission, so play something that forces the Tau to get off their asses and move around the table with something other than Riptides.

the_scotsman wrote:

Also, do you know how hard it is to find LOS blocking terrain? I don't have a 2-foot wall in my terrain collection, I've got buildings, and if the Tau can see one square inch of your model through the windows, welp, just need them 3+s to hit on the markerlights and then you might as well be standing in an open field doesn't matter if you have stealth or shrouded or night fight (lolblacksunfiltersoneverything) we get super good cover saves all the time and you don't get gak.

From my experience you Americans are generally real big on your "RAW", but its not hard to say "look, every expert player and tournament winner I've ever spoken to in the last three years has agreed that LoS blocking terrain is necessary to make this game not gak, especially against Tau. So lets just count these buildings as blocking LoS instead of being full of fething bullet holes" and if he has a tanty about it suggest he tries previously mentioned 3" moshpit mission

DaPino wrote:
First off, I have to say I tend to agree with OP on one thing. It's hard to hacefun playing against Tau.

It's not so much that it's hard to deal with them as it is that Tau just reduce the tactical aspect of the game by a pretty large margin.
Because they can get AP 2 on just about any unit worth fielding, armor saves become something you don't evem bother with when making a list.

You can't outmanoeuvre what isn't manoeuvering and that's really all I have to say about that.

Markerlights, boy do I hate them. Because of them, any cover that does not block LOS gets reduced to a hindrance as opposed to a strategic asset that poses both advantage and disadvantage to both players. It works almost exclusively to the benefit of Tau players. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if there was any sort of counterplay or downside to them except for "go stand where they can't see you". Supposedly, them being heavy counts as being a downside but their range is big enough that they don't have to bother moving unless you can block LOS.

In tournaments it's even worse. They are not played on a zone mortalis, quite the opposite actually, so even that blocking LOS is stripped away from you as an option.

"Having to work around that" is not adding strategy to the game as I've heard some people claim. Guess what, if you strip several layers of strategy and then "add" 1, that still leaves you with reduced tactical layers.

Tau are like campers with a wall hack aiming down the only corridor that can acces them. The only "strategy" you can relibablely use is not going through the corridor. There might be one crate in that corridor he can't shoot through but I wouldn't consider it a reliable wau to deal with him.

Seriously, you should come play Infinity, sounds like it would be right up your alleyway.

**Harukae**

the_scotsman wrote:
Something like:

Longstrike in hammerhead

2x drop melta suit squads one of which had a commander with half a dozen special rules. Every single model could splitfire.

2x skyrays with markerlights

2x IA riptides

2x Devilfish with fire warrior squads inside.

I have Harlequins and DARK Eldar. Don't have access to fast and high toughness, just either/or, and not from the Harlequins. My main anti-tank units are haywire, vs MCs I rely on psychic powers and a splinterboat which has worked well so far and worked well this game (both riptides were dropped turn one by a psychic shriek and mirror of minds). For everything else, I simply couldn't get around the 3+ cover saves that literally every vehicle had. I had 6x haywire blasts on my bikes, scourges dropping with haywire blasters, a drop squad with 3x meltas and a haywire grenade. Melee was a non-possibility after turn 1 he just bulled through the invuln save on one of my transports and used seeker missiles for the other two. The drop troops simply died on arrival after he just laughed away their shooting with his slowed 3+ saves on everything for 15 points a pop.

It's just fething frustrating losing to somebody who doesnt even have to play anything but one phase of the entire game. He didn't move a single model the whole time, just put things down on the board and shot. Nothing made it past the halfway line on the board, and he could just sit there securing 3/6 objectives so he just steadily soaked up points.

Maybe Tau was added to the game so GW could break into the lucrative 5 year old market.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, do you know how hard it is to find LOS blocking terrain? I don't have a 2-foot wall in my terrain collection, I've got buildings, and if the Tau can see one square inch of your model through the windows, welp, just need them 3+s to hit on the markerlights and then you might as well be standing in an open field doesn't matter if you have stealth or shrouded or night fight (lolblacksunfiltersoneverything) we get super good cover saves all the time and you don't get gak.

This honestly sounds like he went Farsight Enclaves, even if that weren't the case Tau are a hard counter to Eldar, Dark Eldar, and now Harlequins. This is an older tournament list for Tau and is just brutal for anyone really.

Close combat is the bane of existence for Tau, which both Harlequins and Dark Eldar do very well, but your biggest problem is that even your toughest units that aren't specifically craftworld are paper mache to anything except IG lasguns. You're best bet is to get close as quickly as possible and hit him hard in melee.

Riptides are also one of the biggest traps for anyone to go after immediately because his main powers isn't coming from them, it's coming from tanks, and those should be your first target. If he was saying that he was getting a 3+ cover then you need to point out that no matter the terrain unless it has a special rule that confers better, only gives a 5+ cover at best, which disruption pods boost to a 4+. I know that unfortunately Harlequins don't really have anything that can melee tanks to death, but that's where DE will pick up the slack for you. Pain Engines are strong enough to tear through any Tau tank, you just have to play them smart and move them through cover as best you can. Otherwise then that you'll be firing haywire at them with only a 50% chance to hit.

Now as for the Riptides, DE and psychic powers are the best way to get rid of them honestly so you're covered there. Commander and the Crisis Suit squads that drop in are tough, but get eat up by any focused fire so keep that in mind. Melta hurts, but they aren't so bad in comparison to the other side of the board.

Best thing to do is keep a cool head and keep trying.

**krodarklorr**

I have fun against Tau easily. I ignore Riptides and destroy the rest of their armies, in the name of the Silent King.

**TheMisterBold**

An easy answer fight fire with fire if he's gonna sit there on three objectives you sit in a place he can't see you on three objectives. Make him move, make him come to you then jump out and krump 'im!

**gmaleron**

krodarklorr wrote:
I have fun against Tau easily. I ignore Riptides and destroy the rest of their armies, in the name of the Silent King.

This, it always surprises me that people don't do this more often and its the best way I've found to deal with Riptide spam with my IG.

**zerosignal**

Alternatively, shoot a bazillion shuriken cannons from eldar jetbikes at them, and watch them curl up and die under bladestorm...

**Alcibiades**

Martel732 wrote:
Alcibiades wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Perhaps it is impossible, but it could certainly be better balanced than it is. I shouldn't NEED LOS blocking terrain to have a chance against Tau.

Why not? The existence of LOS blocking terrain is assumed in the points costs and design of the units to begin with. If you don't want to use it, either increase the cost of shooting units or decrease the cost of melee units.

How do you know that? I don't think GW takes anything into account in the design of anything.

Because it is a logical necessity that the physical objects that make up the game are part of the structure of the game, since it occupies space?

**Melevolence**

The only Tau player in our group tends to bring only a single Riptide, though he does own more. Against one, I've found that ignoring it is the best answer. Virtually every game prior this epiphany, I'd do my best to kill it only to fail. Even sending a Green Tide after it, it took all my PKs to take it out (Some bad rolling on my part), and then all it did was serve to set me up for some punishment with dual flamer suits who cut down my ranks considerably.

After that, I tried just forgetting it existed. And that worked. It fires pot shots all day, but rarely makes up its points against my army. He spent an entire game trying to kill my M'Naught, with no success. Another game, he tried to break open my Blitz Brigade, only succeeding in popping a single wagon with the Riptide.

Just breeze by it like it doesn't exist, and rush everything else with as many bodies as I can. Even Tau shooting can't erase 100+ Boyz when they are in split up propa.

**gmaleron**

Melevolence wrote:
The only Tau player in our group tends to bring only a single Riptide, though he does own more. Against one, I've found that ignoring it is the best answer. Virtually every game prior this epiphany, I'd do my best to kill it only to fail. Even sending a Green Tide after it, it took all my PKs to take it out (Some bad rolling on my part), and then all it did was serve to set me up for some punishment with dual flamer suits who cut down my ranks considerably.

After that, I tried just forgetting it existed. And that worked. It fires pot shots all day, but rarely makes up its points against my army. He spent an entire game trying to kill my M'Naught, with no success. Another game, he tried to break open my Blitz Brigade, only succeeding in popping a single wagon with the Riptide.

Just breeze by it like it doesn't exist, and rush everything else with as many bodies as I can. Even Tau shooting can't erase 100+ Boyz when they are in split up propa.

The same goes for multiple Riptides as their fire output is not that amazing when your break it down, either x3 S7 shots or a large blast template that Gets Hot and in order for it to get more powerful has a 1/3 chance of hurting itself. With my IG I always ignore them and since they have x3 of them and a good chunk of points invested in them it means I have a lot less to kill to neuter the army, that and Riptides don't do so well against armor 14 tanks

**Melevolence**

gmaleron wrote:
Melevolence wrote:
The only Tau player in our group tends to bring only a single Riptide, though he does own more. Against one, I've found that ignoring it is the best answer. Virtually every game prior this epiphany, I'd do my best to kill it only to fail. Even sending a Green Tide after it, it took all my PKs to take it out (Some bad rolling on my part), and then all it did was serve to set me up for some punishment with dual flamer suits who cut down my ranks considerably.

After that, I tried just forgetting it existed. And that worked. It fires pot shots all day, but rarely makes up its points against my army. He spent an entire game trying to kill my M'Naught, with no success. Another game, he tried to break open my Blitz Brigade, only succeeding in popping a single wagon with the Riptide.

Just breeze by it like it doesn't exist, and rush everything else with as many bodies as I can. Even Tau shooting can't erase 100+ Boyz when they are in split up propa.

The same goes for multiple Riptides as their fire output is not that amazing when your break it down, either x3 S7 shots or a large blast template that Gets Hot and in order for it to get more powerful has a 1/3 chance of hurting itself. With my IG I always ignore them and since they have x3 of them and a good chunk of points invested in them it means I have a lot less to kill to neuter the army, that and Riptides don't do so well against armor 14 tanks

Or boatloads of Boys where their decent weapons are pretty much wasted points

Cool as hell models though!