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 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Indeed. And in an ironic twist, Turkey's refusal to admit to the Genocide or offer any sort of apology or reconciliation to Armenians is one of the big sticking points that keeps them out of the EU.

To play devil's advocate (note I have no dog in this hunt) : This occurred in 1915 correct? Whats the point? Everyone is dead. Has Turkey ever apologized for what happened? Absent that, how does it matter?

Would you say the same thing about the Holocaust?

Fair point. I don't blame the current people of Germany and Japan for WWII.

You might blame them if they refused to admit that WW2 and its attendant horrors came about through the actions of their former governments and grandparents. Nations don't get an automatic pardon just because 10, 50 or 100 years has passed by.

Japan pretty much does that now for WWII.

I thought that changed, or do they still not teach the Nanjing stuff?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I thought that changed, or do they still not teach the Nanjing stuff?

From what I understand, it depends on the school you go to. Some have taught about it; others have not. A good friend of mine has oodles of Japanese pen pals (and he's been over there a couple of times on vacations/visits) and some of them know the full story about WWII and some of them don't. The move to teach the unvarnished truth is a more recent one, from what I've heard. Of course, an actual Japanese person with actual firsthand knowledge (instead of my secondhand knowledge) should probably weigh in on this.

Here's a decent article on "why" it matters...

Oodles of links to research...
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/the-forgotten-genocide-why-it-matters-today/

I had this really awesome response for why it still matters, but then my hard drive died and I've spent all day running around getting a new one installed so I don't feel like typing it back out XD

Just read the last paragraph of Whembly's link.

“Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”

Said some guy who went on to genocide millions of people. it matters because people care about it. It matters because to them it isn't a far off thing of the distant past but a very real tragedy that continues to effect them today. The scars of the past don't vanish just because everyone directly involved is long dead.

 LordofHats wrote:

Said some guy who went on to genocide millions of people. it matters because people care about it. It matters because to them it isn't a far off thing of the distant past but a very real tragedy that continues to effect them today. The scars of the past don't vanish just because everyone directly involved is long dead.

It probably would be better if people did forget it, otherwise you get situations like Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, where over the centuries people haven't forgotten which leads the scars of the past being used to inflict scars of the present.

If someone is 3 (or even 2) generations past when the incident happened you have to ask why is it so important to hold onto that kind of negative emotion in their everyday lives?

squidhills wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I thought that changed, or do they still not teach the Nanjing stuff?

From what I understand, it depends on the school you go to. Some have taught about it; others have not. A good friend of mine has oodles of Japanese pen pals (and he's been over there a couple of times on vacations/visits) and some of them know the full story about WWII and some of them don't. The move to teach the unvarnished truth is a more recent one, from what I've heard. Of course, an actual Japanese person with actual firsthand knowledge (instead of my secondhand knowledge) should probably weigh in on this.

Most schools use official books and there it is called the Nanjing incident, same with comfort women who according the official body were not coerced but were paid and did it for the the fatherland.

Bullockist wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

Said some guy who went on to genocide millions of people. it matters because people care about it. It matters because to them it isn't a far off thing of the distant past but a very real tragedy that continues to effect them today. The scars of the past don't vanish just because everyone directly involved is long dead.

It probably would be better if people did forget it, otherwise you get situations like Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, where over the centuries people haven't forgotten which leads the scars of the past being used to inflict scars of the present.

If someone is 3 (or even 2) generations past when the incident happened you have to ask why is it so important to hold onto that kind of negative emotion in their everyday lives?

I am sure the Armenian people will agree with your view as are the Ainu in Japan or the Aboriginals in Australia. I am of the opposite, this will fester in the Armenian people, if Turkey admitted what they did, that would be the first step of the reconciliation.

 Gitkikka wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
It's like if USA government were to admit that they invaded Iraq to simply rearrange region's resources.

Ofc turks don't want to call genocide - genocide.

Or like Russia admitting that it's invading the Ukraine.

See, you got the point

Nationalism.... Feth Yeah!

 koooaei wrote:

 Gitkikka wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
It's like if USA government were to admit that they invaded Iraq to simply rearrange region's resources.

Ofc turks don't want to call genocide - genocide.

Or like Russia admitting that it's invading the Ukraine.

See, you got the point

Russia actually admitted to invading Ukraine, or rather Crimea, a while ago.

Just as the Turkish government to release their genealogical records and then ask why they won't.

I don't see why Turkey is so sensitive about it. I mean, what country doesn't have a genocide or two in its history?

Well, we still barely teach about the Japaneses Internment Camps here. Contries don't like admitting their past mistakes.

Do you teach the Philippines concentration camps?

Considering I barley know what those are (and I love history of all types, and have a great memory for facts), I think it's a good example. I doubt any of the guys in my dorm would have any idea.

Phillipine concentration camps? There weren't any Phiilipine concentration camps.

The ones the American forces made existed. It's a matter of fact.

Here, have this.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
The ones the American forces made existed. It's a matter of fact.

I'm sorry, I didn't make it clear I was playing into the 'atrocity? what atrocity? There were no atrocity here's!' denial mindset.

Poe's law strikes again!

 Portugal Jones wrote:
Phillipine concentration camps? There weren't any Phiilipine concentration camps.

Yep. No concentration camps. We were just liberating them from the Spanish. That's what the Philippine American war was about! Fighting the Spanish

Yeah, and there were never any Native Americans here. This land was empty and just waiting for white, European settlers to move in! Everyone knows that.

thank you for the views. the Turks should acknowledge so that everyone can move on.

 Easy E wrote:
I don't see why Turkey is so sensitive about it. I mean, what country doesn't have a genocide or two in its history?

As already mentioned it reflects badly on their national hero. And modern Turkey was pretty much the last bastion of the Ottoman Empire. Nationalists see it as all that could be saved from the barbarians, and they're not willing to give up a single inch of it to anyone. Which leads us to minorities like the Kurds - if you admit they exist then you might have to give them rights. (It's not too long ago the Kurdish language was forbidden in Turkey and no one admitted such people existed) Next you know they'll want to rule the areas where they live! What if Armenians that can trace their family to Turkey want to return and have their farm back? And maybe also rule the areas where they live?

The thought that Turkey could disintegrate if one admits to doing wrong (opening oneself up to reparation claims) is what scares them.

We talking German run concentration camps in the Phillipines? I know they had some harsh POW camps that was ran by the IJA. They still do the Bataan Death March there and around the world. Imperial Japanese Military had a totally different mindset then the German military concerning western nations POW's

No Jihadin, the US forces at the time put the populations into concentration camps and treated them like gak (the norm for that kind of camp).

Look at Co'tor Shas's link. It was in 1901 or so.

Why doesn't US admit it

AFAIK, the US government does admit these sorts of things. I think it's more our schools don't really teach them. Considering what's taught by schools is still decided per state (and the specifics per teacher) It's not really the federal governments fault either. But teachers mostly just teach from textbooks I find. I think Japanese internment got like a paragraph in my US history textbook. My teacher made sure to teach about it though, we spent a week on it as I remember.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
AFAIK, the US government does admit these sorts of things. I think it's more our schools don't really teach them. Considering what's taught by schools is still decided per state (and the specifics per teacher) It's not really the federal governments fault either. But teachers mostly just teach from textbooks I find. I think Japanese internment got like a paragraph in my US history textbook. My teacher made sure to teach about it though, we spent a week on it as I remember.

The Oklahoma legislature dumped the AP History curriculum this year because it talked about too much bad stuff and didn't spend enough time on american exceptionalism..

*sigh* Of course they did.