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I have a question, I want to use the traditional sand method to base my mini's but I don't want the model to look like it is sinking in the sand, can I apply the sand to the base without the model glued to it and then some how attach the model to the base to give it that look of it standing on top of the sand? If this is how it is done can someone please explain the procedure to me, I am just not understanding it. Thank you in advance for all your help.

There are two main ways to avoid the "sinking" look:

The first is, as you surmise, to finish the base first, then add the model on top. Gluing directly to the sand is tricky, as the grains limit the area of contact, paint can weaken bonds, etc. Best method is to pin the model to the plastic base, right through your basing material. Plenty of info on pinning floating around, if you want a tutorial, but the basic idea is incredibly simple - drill a hole in the foot, drill a matching hole in the base, run a rod through the two holes, then glue everything in place. Extra surface area for glue to grip, plus solid mechanical resistance to torque (the bane of superglue) makes the joint rather strong.

The second method it to simply make your model stand a little higher than the rest of the base, then add sand as you normally would. Models with tabs that go into slotta bases will need to be clipped free or have the top of the tab shaved down, otherwise the extra material will look even worse than sinking feet. For a shortened tab, just glue it in a tad higher. For any model being attached by independent feet, some thin shims of cardboard, styrene, etc. - even a blob of hot glue or epoxy putty - below the feet will raise it high enough that the material added to the base won't end up higher than the soles of the feet.

 oadie wrote:
There are two main ways to avoid the "sinking" look:

The first is, as you surmise, to finish the base first, then add the model on top. Gluing directly to the sand is tricky, as the grains limit the area of contact, paint can weaken bonds, etc. Best method is to pin the model to the plastic base, right through your basing material. Plenty of info on pinning floating around, if you want a tutorial, but the basic idea is incredibly simple - drill a hole in the foot, drill a matching hole in the base, run a rod through the two holes, then glue everything in place. Extra surface area for glue to grip, plus solid mechanical resistance to torque (the bane of superglue) makes the joint rather strong.

The second method it to simply make your model stand a little higher than the rest of the base, then add sand as you normally would. Models with tabs that go into slotta bases will need to be clipped free or have the top of the tab shaved down, otherwise the extra material will look even worse than sinking feet. For a shortened tab, just glue it in a tad higher. For any model being attached by independent feet, some thin shims of cardboard, styrene, etc. - even a blob of hot glue or epoxy putty - below the feet will raise it high enough that the material added to the base won't end up higher than the soles of the feet.

This. Unless your model has large feet (space marines flat footed, Dreads, etc.) the first method can be a bit obnoxious. The second method is way easier, and you can even use some thin slices of sprue to raise your model.

I use 0,5mm plasticard/styrene sheet to elevate many of my models. Use scissors to cut the sheet into small rectangles and glue them to models' feet using plastic glue (or superglue for metal/finecast). Cut into shape once the glue had dried.

0,5mm does not sound a lot, but it's thick enough to make a difference, yet thin enough to be quick and easy to work with.

I am not understanding this question.

For minis that don't have cast on bases, I just construct the base, and then drill holes where the minis' feet will be (if it is a Slotta mini, cut off the stellar tab and add rods through the feet/legs - if the mini comes with pins already coming out of the feet, as most 90's era Ral Partha minis did, do nothing) and then glue the mini to the base.

What is this "sinking in the sand?"

Depending upon the terrain type, the mini should "sink' just a little bit into the terrain (unless it is hard rock or course gravel).

Go stand in some sand, and you will discover that a normal 80kg person will sink into the sand between ½" and 1".

But that would not be a lot to a 30mm miniature.

MB

BeAfraid wrote:
I am not understanding this question.

For minis that don't have cast on bases, I just construct the base, and then drill holes where the minis' feet will be (if it is a Slotta mini, cut off the stellar tab and add rods through the feet/legs - if the mini comes with pins already coming out of the feet, as most 90's era Ral Partha minis did, do nothing) and then glue the mini to the base.

What is this "sinking in the sand?"

Depending upon the terrain type, the mini should "sink' just a little bit into the terrain (unless it is hard rock or course gravel).

Go stand in some sand, and you will discover that a normal 80kg person will sink into the sand between ½" and 1".

But that would not be a lot to a 30mm miniature.

MB

Yeah, I agree that a little bit of "sinkage" looks less unnatural than a little bit of "floatage". I don't think the ground slightly rising around the feet is a big deal. That being said, if the sand is supposed to look like rock, it makes less sense to have the rock look to sink under the weight of the person.

In my opinion, though, the best way to deal basing, in any case, is definitely to make the base, make then model, then pin the model to the base and glue both at the feet and under the base (with superglue) -- and this makes it so that there is no "sinking". To prevent the illusion of unnaturally floating on the base, you can always use another model (or lower torso) and stamp the sand when it's still wet to create a very slight indentation (or at least flatten it).

I'm gonna go ahead and say a little more more careful application of the glue and sand, if you're getting that sinking feeling.
Brushing the glue on carefully around the feet with a gradual tapering application should leave you with a "light imprint" effect as though walking on it, and not through it.
Sure, it's not the most time efficient way, but if you can avoid slopping glue down the edges of your bases, you already have enough control to avoid those tootsies.

The sand is a very small, but rigid material. If you imagine placing a plank of wood over marbles you have scattered onto a tray. Glueing or incorrectly pinning a flat footed figure over already applied sand can lead to a similar floating effect, where the foot is not interacting with the base correctly in that case either. The coarser the sand, the more pronounced the levitation.

Frustrating, yes. Honestly the answer is patience and practise. Have a go with some bits of sprue and base to test ideas.

Since we are on the topic of basing, when I glue the sand to the base is there a way to "seal" the sand so it doesn't rub off over time?

I put my sand on before base coating. seems to hold it on pretty well..make sure the sand is dry with the PVA glue before spraying

 Da_Mekanik wrote:
Since we are on the topic of basing, when I glue the sand to the base is there a way to "seal" the sand so it doesn't rub off over time?

I usually just put a layer of pva glue over the top once the sand is stuck to the base. It seems to hold just fine in my experience.

I've been supergluing models down right over the sand. It requires both a thicker superglue (I've been using P3) and a pretty flat/even layer of sand (another issue entirely) but it works fine, even if it requires a bit of patience to get the model set (you usually can't just stand it up and walk away, especially with some of the Infinity action-pose folks I've been doing this with; GW models do have large flat feet and are fairly well-balanced by comparison, though, works better for them).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da_Mekanik wrote:
Since we are on the topic of basing, when I glue the sand to the base is there a way to "seal" the sand so it doesn't rub off over time?

I superglue the sand down initially and it seems to stay fine for me; putting an extra varnish layer (water+white glue) down over it should help if you're having problems, but make sure it's thin enough or it'll fill in the sand and you'll get more of a textured surface and less of a 'sand'.