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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 06:21:39
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Toofast wrote:Maelstrom is only "balanced" because the person with the far superior list can be screwed by random card draws. As usual, the only way GW knows how to "balance" something is to make it completely random. What happens when the person with the inferior or less mobile build also gets worse card draws? Also, if the game goes 6-7 turns, you're probably going to get tabled if it's that much of a mismatch. I was playing against a tau gunline, up 15-6 on victory points, he killed my last guy on turn 6, who was standing in the bottom of a ruin (out of line of sight), with a seeker missile.
Yeah, the whole thing is really just hugely variable. I had a game a few months ago that clinched first place for me at a local tournament, and I just happened to roll a bunch of objectives I was already sitting on while my opponent had to grab the ones in the middle of the board and stuck trying to kill Flyers I didn't have. The huge victory margin I ended up with was due far more to good dice rolling than any ability on my part, our armies actually took relatively equal casualties and ended up holding relatively equal parts of the board.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/14 06:22:32
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 06:32:15
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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Token post complaining about power creep. We're good for the year now, right? Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, everyone I know house rules that if a card could never be completed (kill a flier but my army never contained one at any time) you discard and draw a new one. Everyone plays that way.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/14 06:39:48
DR:80-S++G+M-B---I+Pw40k#10++D+A++++/cWD-R+++T(T)DM+
(Grey Knights 4500+) (Eldar 4000+ Pts) (Tyranids 3000 Pts) (Tau 3000 Pts) (Imperial Guard 3500 Pts) (Doom Eagles 3000 Pts) (Orks 3000+ Pts) (Necrons 2500 Pts) (Daemons 2000) (Sisters of Battle 2000) (2 Imperial Knights) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 06:51:21
Subject: Re:Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Adlance is not such a big deal when you play for objectives. Yes, they're tough but they only get bonuses when tightly packed together and can't reliably deal with MSU. Not once have i seen something like an ultramarine list with 60 tacticals beat adlance hands down simply controling the whole map.
You can dislike maelstorm all you want and it IS random and sometimes seems unfair but you can't deny that it allows any army to have a real chance beating absolutely anything via board controle. An unkillable deathstar? Couldn't really do anything in 5-6 as only the last turn mattered. Now? Feed them chaff and score points. An IG artillery spam gunline vs mellee-oriented footsloggers? Yep, can pretty much surrender turn one if you're playing 5 or 6. Now? Can run around the map, hide in ruins, gtg in craters and score points - he'll have to come for you to push you off the midboard - you have chances now.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/14 06:57:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 06:57:54
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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They don't have to be super packed together, they can get a decent amount of spread in there, and once they make it across the board (turn 2) they often don't need to rely on the formation ability anymore.
AdLance is also not the whole of the army. In a 2K game, you can get AdLance and 875pts of other things to play with.
It also depends entirely on the mission type you're playing.
It might have trouble with things like FMC spam where it can't adequately engage them, or Invisibility, both of which are strong and prevalent enough to knock it off top tournament tables, but there's a lot of armies it basically auto-wins against.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 09:42:32
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Stitch Counter
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I wouldn't be aware of 40K upping itself as I'm still firmly stuck in 6th Ed and haven't bought any of the newer codices - I still have the Duke and Lady Malys in my army
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Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Saga: (Vikings, Normans, Anglo Danes, Irish, Scots, Late Romans, Huns and Anglo Saxons), Lion Rampant, Ronin: (Bushi x2, Sohei), Frostgrave: (Enchanter, Thaumaturge, Illusionist)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 10:56:08
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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Yes and the things mentioned contribute to why every time I think of starting 40k again to see how it is I end up just buying something else for my warmachine force instead.
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- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 12:58:57
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Maine
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All games suffer from some kind of power creep. It's inevitable. Some games suffer it worse than others. Is it annoying? of course, but that's the nature of the game and how any company can stay in business.
In Magic, they keep people buying when they continue to make the game a little more stupid every block. Plainswalkers continue to get better and better, cheaper mana costing and more useful creatures continue to arise, supported by nasty spells to go along with it.
Certain color combinations become more releavent depending on what is legal in the meta, meaning Red might not be that great at all to start, but as sets come out, Red might find a powerbuild by itself or with another color to cover its weaknesses.
It's our job to do our best to find ways to counter the 'flavor of the month'. Some counters are not as easy to find, or aren't even hard counters. Sometimes all we can do is cushion the blow, and hope our matchup isn't so BAD that we can't properly fight back. This is true in Magic, Warhammer, Heroclix, and even X-Wing.
I wouldn't make a decision not to play the game strictly on internet hear-say. Play and find out if you like the game for yourself. if your army is constantly 'failing', then as others have said, take a look at why that might be. What is your army lacking? Is it lacking the proper units to handle the situation, or is it perhaps your choices made on the table?
I had the hardest time getting wins with Orks until I took a step back and began to analyze what had happened. I wasn't bringing the right tools, and even in games I did bring them, I mad very bad choices. I began to learn what to do and what not to do, who to send after what, etc.
I wont discount that the game IS lopsided and I'll agree the rules could be written loads better. But, I enjoy this game for what it is. I play with people I like, and we don't power build every single game. Sometimes, we like to field the big cool stuff, just so it leaves the shelf. But we know it isn't a good idea to do every single game. We acknowledge the game is bonkers, but we have fun with it none the less. We can't change it. So why bitch too hard about it, especially on the internet where it doesn't matter? We've sent suggestions to GW before. Though we all know how well that works out for us
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 13:31:27
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Dakka Veteran
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I am going to be quite honest - which is usually not a trait online but meh I am feeling tired. 40k as of late has become somewhat boring for me. I have actually sold off most of my armies (with the exception of keeping my awesome White Scars army with all 30k bikes and materials) and really have been playing a game of 40k once every month at my LFGS. Furthermore, I have been really playing tournaments more as of late, but again, friendly games have fell by the wayside. 40k has somewhat lost interest for me. Between the power creep that has happened (although not so much in my meta), the changes made to the actual game, the same boring structure compared to other games (alternating turns, or alternating squad activations, different people going first... so on and so forth), and albeit controversial business practices (raising of prices, ect) - I find myself gravitating to other systems that are popular. Playing with friends help though I have tried Warmachine, and while I enjoy it, its the community that somewhat keeps me away. Really what has been growing in my FLGS and what I have been enjoying is Spartan Games. Their ruleset is quite balanced (well written though... is another story  ), their forums have constant presence from staff, and they do have gorgeous models. It kind of sucks - but meh as I grow older it seems that I want a little more depth in a game which IMO is not provided by the current 40k. The Skitarii release is a step in the right direction I feel, but currently I don't know, just been liking Armada and Planetfall more
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/14 13:32:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 13:37:06
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
PA Unitied States
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Boniface wrote:Does anyone else just miss that days when you could turn up with anything and not worry too much about being completely outclassed?
It also just seems that everything is geared towards getting things off the table pronto. Anyone else feel this way?
So few people remember the days, that when you played a game that you could go 6 rounds toe to toe with any codex and have a great game, it was less about, what you took and more how you played it. The best games were the nail-biters that came down to that last CC or shooting phase and until saves were rolled you didn't know who was going to win. So yeah I miss them.
chelsea_hollywood wrote:Nope
I feel like people who feel the way you do are just looking at the past through rose tinted glasses and have forgotten that the game has always had armies that gave you little to no chance of winning unless you brought something similar
Nostalgia for most of us yes indeed I fully 100% admit it and I'm proud of it. I guessing you never played 2-3th editions? They had less (codices, units types and units in general) and had thier problems but it was more about how you used it. Not GAK army A counters, GAK army B which counters, GAK army C, while non-GAK armies will never hack it.
Unfortunatly I agree with you as well. The days of pure codices are long gone for competitive play except for a few (nids and demons mostly). Now its all about how much broken GAK you can put together in 1850.
Martel732 wrote:"Or any IoM army and getting something dropped next to me that wipes out a third of my army. "
You can stop that with army setup.
Depends on how much alpha deep strike stuff your opponent has access too really and that's the OP point. With the current rules its easy to mix and match codices so that you can overwhelm most other codices in one turn so that they can never recover.
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There is nothing wrong with people loving this edition, more power to you your intilted to. However, those who don't, do have legitimate complaints. Why is it when they voice them, 'they don;t know how to play'? The OP and Jayden63 have great points.
This love/hate thing about the direction of current editions will never be settled ever, face it as a fact. IMHO a game this complex will never be 100% balanced, but GW could do alot better.
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22 yrs in the hobby
:Eldar: 10K+ pts, 2500 pts
1850 pts
Vampire Counts 4000+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 15:00:57
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Well isn't this just doom and gloom.
Look, everyone's got stuff they enjoy. I play in a large club. We've got a guy who loves playing Fortress Defense, who builds big castles with different fortifications and fills them with his IG and SM army. We have a guy who loves his Tau tanks, a guy who plays an almost all-wraith foot Eldar army, a guy who plays Grey Knights with an IK, and many many more. Myself, I love toy soldiers, but painting vehicles is a pain and takes too long. And after waiting 10 years I finally got a Harlequin codex. Taking them and trying to craft a TAC list that can handle all those different elements I realized: it's totally possible. I wound up with a Harlequin CAD and a minimal sized DE allied detachment (kit bashed and painted to be part of the troupe) and so far the only thing I've had trouble with was the Tau tank list.
Drop podding space marines? Manageable. Two flying hive tyrants? Also doable. Standard Tau gunline with tanks Riptides and infantry? Awesome game, ended up a dead tie after some really hot rolling from Fire Warriors dropped the solitaire in CC.
People don't understand the reality of the game, they just see these big scary models and go "oh no that must be OP". The first time I went up against an IK I expected that thing to be flinging SD pie plates every turn for the amount of internet whining I've heard about it, but no. It just took a hull point off one of my transports, got stuck in terrain, I picked a couple hull points off it with a unit of haywire scourges and charged it with a minimum-sized squad of infantry with anti tank weaponry and it went down.
The generally-agreed scariest matchup in our club, the guy who always wins tournaments in our local area runs a straight Space Marine CAD. His list has scouts, Pedro Cantor, and a land raider and I've seen him beat every single fotm super- powerful bs list because he's run the same army since 5th and he just really, really knows his list back and forward.
I love that the most vocal whiners about the current state of 40k are those who "have watched someone playing a game with the current rules once" or "played a couple vassal games in 6th ed" like, seriously? As long as you keep the "I can't win against XYZ super powerful thing" attitude, then yeah. You can't. Is the game perfectly balanced? Hell no. Are all your opponents tournament-quality world class players who do everything perfectly? Bet you a dollar they aren't.
Whine all you like, play the edition you want all you like, but it is completely possible to play 40k and enjoy yourself if you take your head out of your bum and accept that not every loss is due to the game being broken.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 15:55:49
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Cosmic Joe
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True, some are due to pulling random cards.
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Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 16:00:35
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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And if someone plays an army that by design doesn't work in 7th and to make matters worse their opponents are not incompetent or random model army players?
What then? Because my option right now are to take ally, but by the time I take them I may as well play the other army. Play another army. Force people to let me, and only me, use FW.
And neither of the 3 seem very fun. I would be ok with it, if I picked my army to be some random model collection. Or if it was like Dark Angels, always bad. But my army was doing ok and it was fun to play, before 7th, even at the end of 6th when it was hard to win, it was still fun to play. It is not fun anymore, it doesn't do its suppose to do.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 16:20:44
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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I used to play DA and lost every game. Lol. Was a while ago.
I'm not willing to try playing the game btw, just lacking in enthusiasm. This is generally compounded by not having a group, my only point of reference is the internet, and I keep hearing awesome powerful new unit etc.
Truthfully I doubt it would be like that as the people playing are probably like me and don't really have the money to up their army constantly but equally I don't want to be forced to buy specific thing to counter either. Still best get back out there and find out I guess.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 16:21:13
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Dakka Veteran
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the_scotsman wrote:Well isn't this just doom and gloom.
Look, everyone's got stuff they enjoy. I play in a large club. We've got a guy who loves playing Fortress Defense, who builds big castles with different fortifications and fills them with his IG and SM army. We have a guy who loves his Tau tanks, a guy who plays an almost all-wraith foot Eldar army, a guy who plays Grey Knights with an IK, and many many more. Myself, I love toy soldiers, but painting vehicles is a pain and takes too long. And after waiting 10 years I finally got a Harlequin codex. Taking them and trying to craft a TAC list that can handle all those different elements I realized: it's totally possible. I wound up with a Harlequin CAD and a minimal sized DE allied detachment (kit bashed and painted to be part of the troupe) and so far the only thing I've had trouble with was the Tau tank list.
Drop podding space marines? Manageable. Two flying hive tyrants? Also doable. Standard Tau gunline with tanks Riptides and infantry? Awesome game, ended up a dead tie after some really hot rolling from Fire Warriors dropped the solitaire in CC.
People don't understand the reality of the game, they just see these big scary models and go "oh no that must be OP". The first time I went up against an IK I expected that thing to be flinging SD pie plates every turn for the amount of internet whining I've heard about it, but no. It just took a hull point off one of my transports, got stuck in terrain, I picked a couple hull points off it with a unit of haywire scourges and charged it with a minimum-sized squad of infantry with anti tank weaponry and it went down.
The generally-agreed scariest matchup in our club, the guy who always wins tournaments in our local area runs a straight Space Marine CAD. His list has scouts, Pedro Cantor, and a land raider and I've seen him beat every single fotm super- powerful bs list because he's run the same army since 5th and he just really, really knows his list back and forward.
I love that the most vocal whiners about the current state of 40k are those who "have watched someone playing a game with the current rules once" or "played a couple vassal games in 6th ed" like, seriously? As long as you keep the "I can't win against XYZ super powerful thing" attitude, then yeah. You can't. Is the game perfectly balanced? Hell no. Are all your opponents tournament-quality world class players who do everything perfectly? Bet you a dollar they aren't.
Whine all you like, play the edition you want all you like, but it is completely possible to play 40k and enjoy yourself if you take your head out of your bum and accept that not every loss is due to the game being broken.
For me its never really been the models. I have playe bike marines... hell I have played marines... foreverrrrr. So playing that army really gives an advantage because you know all the ins and outs. Now that being said I do lose every now and then, and that is fine. What makes me sad (not doom and gloom) is that sometimes I come across an army that I feel like I need to paper rock scissors it. For example the 5 hive tyrant list. I have one fire raptor, with no other AA, but against that list I fee like I require some new thing that GW put out in order to beat it. Or my personal Fav the New Necron detatchment. I understand that there are tactics to win, but playing the more favored tactic (ignoring the army and instead playing to the objectives) is not the face smashing I wanted to do.
I HATEEEE when people say "I remember when....." howeverrrr, I do remember having a bit more fun with 40k earlier on then now. Hell I even had fun back when I had Tau and you can assault a squad and massacre into another squad just as easily. Now did I lose a lot, hell yeah but it was awesome.
Now its like meh
But hey I got spartan games to fill the gap
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 17:19:01
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Fixture of Dakka
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That's funny... for me, it's *ALL* about the models  I would rather lose to an opponent with awesome looking models, than win against an opponent with grey plastic. In fact, once a board has is full of model awesomeness, I don't really care which way the game goes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/14 17:19:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 17:39:26
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Dakka Veteran
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Talys wrote:
That's funny... for me, it's *ALL* about the models  I would rather lose to an opponent with awesome looking models, than win against an opponent with grey plastic. In fact, once a board has is full of model awesomeness, I don't really care which way the game goes.
Sorry should have been more specific - when I said models I meant to an extent the models in the game (my fancy new model does this... or my old model that I love so much no longer exists/is crap). Models do make or break it for me
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 18:29:45
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Boniface wrote:I used to play DA and lost every game. Lol. Was a while ago.
I'm not willing to try playing the game btw, just lacking in enthusiasm. This is generally compounded by not having a group, my only point of reference is the internet, and I keep hearing awesome powerful new unit etc.
Truthfully I doubt it would be like that as the people playing are probably like me and don't really have the money to up their army constantly but equally I don't want to be forced to buy specific thing to counter either. Still best get back out there and find out I guess.
And I'm telling you that 99% of the time the internet is full of doom and gloom crap about almost anything. There have always been "super powerful lists that nothing can beat". Death Stars and spam have been part of the game forever, but honestly the same things work to counter the powerful units that always did (the best counter to the IK is Haywire weapons and Melta weapons which have always existed...)
My club isn't the most hyper competitive environment and is mostly just Prople playing their collections but I've had a chance to try playing agains every supposedly super powerful unit people complain about and haven't found anything my normal lists couldn't handle.
Maelstrom actually helps that too. People complain that it's too random, but I like that it spreads out the influence to favor many small units over Death Star or super unit spam lists. Sure it makes some dickishness stronger (wave serpents who will most likely be toast in a week anyway) but the majority of the time it weakens power builds which in my eyes is always a good thing.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 18:31:56
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Compare the space marine codex to the BA codex and then get back to me. There's nothing in the BA codex worth giving up the SM toys for.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 18:53:54
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian
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Take out the new necron codex and the introduction of Knights and tell me where the power creep is happening?
Was it the BA meq assault force in a shooty edition with lots of low ap? Was it the glass cannon DE? The GK who lost half their units? SW who, whilst getting thunderwolf cavalry, are still generally considered slightly below C: SM? Was it the atrocity of the Khorne  eamonkin codex? Maybe the Ork mob armies - they've worked out so well right? Or AM, the army that is outclassed in their specialism by half the other armies? MT - the st3 ap3 specialists, (they really excel with that!)? Or inquisition, the dex that has only 5 slots in its detachment, 2 of which are HQs? Nids - their saving grace being flyrants?
If you ignore Necrons and IKs there has been no power creep since C: SM, Eldar and Tau (and maelstrom hasn't been kind to tau gunlines). So if we include Necrons and IK, since C: SM, 2 out of 12 dexes have shown obvious power creep. 3 if you want to include SW. An argument could be made for nids due to a single unit also...
Now I'm not saying the dexes mentioned are poor. But they aren't top tier and to be classed as power creep then by definition need to be considered top tier.
Have I missed a codex since C: SM? I feel I have... Automatically Appended Next Post: Sorry - reading that back it seemed to come across as sarcasticly harsh. That was not the intention.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/14 19:32:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 20:30:08
Subject: Re:Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Screaming Shining Spear
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In a game like 40k, there's always going to be some apparent "power creep". GW needs to sell models, so they introduce new ones and update codexes. Things change, and the meta shifts. People complain that things are unbalanced, and then something happens which shifts the meta again. Life goes one.
For the people complaining about 7th edition, I came into 40k in 6th edition, and 7th feels like a major improvement to me, possibly because it's more like 6 1/2 edition.
People say that the game was better back in the day, but I've heard horror stories as well. 5th edition Grey Knights, leafblower IG, Tau being unplayable, and Blood Angels ruling the galaxy are all things that elicit shudders in my local gaming group.
From my perspective, 7th edition has finally put to rest the myth of the "Take All Comers" list. With the amount of things that are out there in the game now, it's impossible to make a counter to everything. Focus on what your army does well, and maximize that aspect. Also, objectives. 40k is an objective-based game, and I just hurt when someone fails to properly play to the objective, especially in Eternal War (barring kill points). You don't have to table the opponent, just score more victory points.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 21:55:05
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge
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Power creep isn't really as bad as it was in 5th. There's a ton of stuff to keep track of and stuff is coming out really quickly, so while it may seem difficult just because you don't know what stuff does, there's not really much "one upping" going on. The new Eldar codex coming out is basically coming out to rebalance the book since it has some overpowered malarkey in there, and I would imagine Tau won't be far behind.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 22:09:44
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Cosmic Joe
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Maybe the power creep issue isn't as bad as it has been but people have less patience for it due to there being so much competition out there that are cheaper with better rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 23:38:06
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Jayden63 wrote: Iron_Captain wrote:Well, if you are afraid to lose you will never win.
If you think your current units are not powerful enough, buy some heavy toys such as flyers or a knight.
Alternatively, you could play Kill Team and only have to worry about infantry. Really nice alternative (and free!) Kill Team rules can be found here: http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.nl/p/kill-team-rules.html
The idea that you need to get a Knight or a flyer or "heavy toys" is the main problem with 40K. I hate the knights, most flyers, and really don't want to ally in anybody for heavy guns. My army is "insert single name here" Not "insert name here, with a side of this and a helping of that, with a few of those on the side." That is total BS and is killing the identity of the game. There used to be pride in playing Orks, SW, sisters, "insert single name here" army. It was my army damn it. And I lived and died by what the codex brought. My army actually had holes that I had to use tactics to circumvent. It was what made the game fun. Now its he who brings the most of the most expensive models wins. Your no longer fighting with your talents and wits. Just your wallet.
thing is allies make plenty of sense, outside the pre-6th edition table top (in otherwords in the fluff, video games etc) how often did you see elements of the Imperium fighting completly by themselves. ok yes you often saw guard fighting by themselves, but when space marines where about, they where almost always working with the guard etc. I've always thought table top could stand to reflect this better. and now it does, now I can read about an awesome battle where the Ultramarines show up and help Cadians fight against a force of word bearers supplemented by deamons, and I can fight that battle on the table top. thing is the ally rules, as a result definatly favor the... larger orginizations that already had multiple dexes involved. but with all these new micro-dexes etc, I'm honestly optimistic that eventually everyone will have options to field some intreasting mixed armies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/15 00:11:46
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Brother SRM wrote:Power creep isn't really as bad as it was in 5th. There's a ton of stuff to keep track of and stuff is coming out really quickly, so while it may seem difficult just because you don't know what stuff does, there's not really much "one upping" going on. The new Eldar codex coming out is basically coming out to rebalance the book since it has some overpowered malarkey in there, and I would imagine Tau won't be far behind.
Some 5th edition codices were really over the top (e.g., Grey Knights), and that's pretty well agreed-upon. I get the impression that peoples' problems with the current ruleset stem from the fact that a lot of the power creep comes from weird special rules empowering nigh unkillable deathstars, rather than just undercosted units.
Centstar works because you're throwing Draigo in the unit to tank wounds, and Tigurius in there to get invisibility. Decurion and Harvest have formation-wide (note formations weren't a thing in 5th) special rules that increase their durability far and beyond that of regular CAD Necrons.
I guess my issue is this - I stomped many a head in 5th edition with my IG using the cheese of the cheese - Vendetta alpha striking Melta Demo Vets, Manticores pie plating the crap out of the opponent, Null deployment using Al Rahem...playing weaker codices was generally a turkey shoot. At the same time, if I ran into a Deathwing player (Deathwing of all things, lol) my hard-hitting column of badasses quickly became a parking lot of death as vehicle after vehicle was put to the Thunder Hammer. There was always a nice hard counter to the power armies. And even though GK was very strong, I still managed to eek out the occasional win if I could be sneaky with my outflanking and lucky with my Reserves rolls.
Same thing with my 5th ed 2x Lash Sorcerer & 9 Obliterators CSM. I usually had no problem roflstomping Space Wolves, which were pretty powerful as well, due to the combination of plasma and Lash of Submission. But I'd still get beaten pretty handily by Grey Knights as they had an answer to everything I could throw at them.
Centstar kills pretty much everything it looks at. Adlance pretty much completely invalidates my CSM army completely. If I match up with Serpent Spam with my IG, the game is pretty much over before it begins. 5th Ed definitely had balance issues, but there were a number of strong contenders ( SW / IG / GK / CSM) and I never felt like the opponent was literally unbeatable.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/15 00:12:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/15 00:33:32
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Stoic Grail Knight
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Poly Ranger wrote:Take out the new necron codex and the introduction of Knights and tell me where the power creep is happening?
Go look at the new Eldar jetbikes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/15 00:34:19
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Brother SRM wrote:Power creep isn't really as bad as it was in 5th. There's a ton of stuff to keep track of and stuff is coming out really quickly, so while it may seem difficult just because you don't know what stuff does, there's not really much "one upping" going on. The new Eldar codex coming out is basically coming out to rebalance the book since it has some overpowered malarkey in there, and I would imagine Tau won't be far behind.
Not been into the Eldar News thread in the last few hours then?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/15 00:34:35
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/15 01:32:15
Subject: Re:Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Lord of the Fleet
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You weren't kidding.
Sweet mother of feth.
Amazing. That's some next level 'balance'.
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Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
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Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/15 01:34:42
Subject: Re:Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Stoic Grail Knight
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I'm just ready to hear people arguing on GW's behalf for this "fix" of the Eldar codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/15 01:35:35
Subject: Re:Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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Lord of the Fleet
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No, I'm ready for the people who are going to defend it and claim its fair and balanced and that we just have to adapt and play better.
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Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/15 01:36:07
Subject: Is anyone else just bored of 40k and constantly upping itself?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Thing is, other than laser lock, WS could be just the same, we've not heard either way...
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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