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oz of the north wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Toxicrenes are MC killers.

lol



When it comes to new Eldar, problem isn't the D weapons. It's the Scatriders. Completely bonkers.

Btw, oz of the north, you don't have a clue.

No clue on what?

The toxicrene isnt a MC killer, infact mine has NEVER made his points back. He generally misses half his attacks, thanks WS 3, and then usually gets chewed up in return attacks. Even if he survives a combat he'll be on his last legs.

oz of the north wrote:
Other than Necrons, I think Nids will take the smallest hit. The bikes may be resilient, but a few Mawlocs popping up will destroy bikes. If nids go first can really punish eldar and stop them from being so super killy, also the ability to have mobile shrouding can cause a lot of pain.

Yup...providing the Mawlock doesn't scatter and can kill all of the bikes within 2 hits. Also really looking forward to spending 140 points to kill 1 unit with a unit that will probably be blasted down the turn it comes in anyway.

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Other than Necrons, I think Nids will take the smallest hit. The bikes may be resilient, but a few Mawlocs popping up will destroy bikes. If nids go first can really punish eldar and stop them from being so super killy, also the ability to have mobile shrouding can cause a lot of pain.

Yup...providing the Mawlock doesn't scatter and can kill all of the bikes within 2 hits. Also really looking forward to spending 140 points to kill 1 unit with a unit that will probably be blasted down the turn it comes in anyway.

But while it is firing into that, and you get your armor saves, they are not shooting into another unit, that can move up and cause havoc.

The bikes are going to be problems for a lot of armies. Nids actually have some decent answers to them, compared to some other armies. You can put down 15 units of spore mines and nothing else first turn, for example, and just dare your opponent to come at you and shoot them all. Or you can play a Scythed Hierodule and melt bikes with an AP3 hellstorm template (that sounds fun). Lictors can come in and force large bike squads to focus on tiny targets, and the lictors can conceivably kill expensive bike squads if they are ignored and get the charge. Mawlocs, as stated, can put the hurt on bikes with ignores cover AP2 (and with the footprint of these proposed 6-10 man bike units, yeah, I'm not that worried about scattering off).

Marines, on the other hand, are screwed.

oz of the north wrote:

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Other than Necrons, I think Nids will take the smallest hit. The bikes may be resilient, but a few Mawlocs popping up will destroy bikes. If nids go first can really punish eldar and stop them from being so super killy, also the ability to have mobile shrouding can cause a lot of pain.

Yup...providing the Mawlock doesn't scatter and can kill all of the bikes within 2 hits. Also really looking forward to spending 140 points to kill 1 unit with a unit that will probably be blasted down the turn it comes in anyway.

But while it is firing into that, and you get your armor saves, they are not shooting into another unit, that can move up and cause havoc.

This is one of those great in theory, never gonna happen in practice moments. There is a lot that can go wrong.

First you're banking on the idea your opponent is going to absolutely fail at coherency. Otherwise the mawloc is going to only nick one to three bikes. Provided you don't just scatter into the open.

Then you're assuming your opponent will try to focus down the mawloc, provided he even popped out of the ground at all. Instead of just ignoring it as you're more likely to reburrow and thus remove it from the equation for another turn.

There are just too many variables.

lonestarr777 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Other than Necrons, I think Nids will take the smallest hit. The bikes may be resilient, but a few Mawlocs popping up will destroy bikes. If nids go first can really punish eldar and stop them from being so super killy, also the ability to have mobile shrouding can cause a lot of pain.

Yup...providing the Mawlock doesn't scatter and can kill all of the bikes within 2 hits. Also really looking forward to spending 140 points to kill 1 unit with a unit that will probably be blasted down the turn it comes in anyway.

But while it is firing into that, and you get your armor saves, they are not shooting into another unit, that can move up and cause havoc.

This is one of those great in theory, never gonna happen in practice moments. There is a lot that can go wrong.

First you're banking on the idea your opponent is going to absolutely fail at coherency. Otherwise the mawloc is going to only nick one to three bikes. Provided you don't just scatter into the open.

Then you're assuming your opponent will try to focus down the mawloc, provided he even popped out of the ground at all. Instead of just ignoring it as you're more likely to reburrow and thus remove it from the equation for another turn.

There are just too many variables.

If they do not focus it down, then you charge them and crush them, in combat, it's more than likely that they cannot do anything to it. If worse comes to worse, just drop a tyranofex in a pod next to the bikes and this will absolutely crush the unit.

oz of the north wrote:

lonestarr777 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Other than Necrons, I think Nids will take the smallest hit. The bikes may be resilient, but a few Mawlocs popping up will destroy bikes. If nids go first can really punish eldar and stop them from being so super killy, also the ability to have mobile shrouding can cause a lot of pain.

Yup...providing the Mawlock doesn't scatter and can kill all of the bikes within 2 hits. Also really looking forward to spending 140 points to kill 1 unit with a unit that will probably be blasted down the turn it comes in anyway.

But while it is firing into that, and you get your armor saves, they are not shooting into another unit, that can move up and cause havoc.

This is one of those great in theory, never gonna happen in practice moments. There is a lot that can go wrong.

First you're banking on the idea your opponent is going to absolutely fail at coherency. Otherwise the mawloc is going to only nick one to three bikes. Provided you don't just scatter into the open.

Then you're assuming your opponent will try to focus down the mawloc, provided he even popped out of the ground at all. Instead of just ignoring it as you're more likely to reburrow and thus remove it from the equation for another turn.

There are just too many variables.

If they do not focus it down, then you charge them and crush them, in combat, it's more than likely that they cannot do anything to it

Alright, now you're just assuming the other player won't just move his bikes 36" during his turn...

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

lonestarr777 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Other than Necrons, I think Nids will take the smallest hit. The bikes may be resilient, but a few Mawlocs popping up will destroy bikes. If nids go first can really punish eldar and stop them from being so super killy, also the ability to have mobile shrouding can cause a lot of pain.

Yup...providing the Mawlock doesn't scatter and can kill all of the bikes within 2 hits. Also really looking forward to spending 140 points to kill 1 unit with a unit that will probably be blasted down the turn it comes in anyway.

But while it is firing into that, and you get your armor saves, they are not shooting into another unit, that can move up and cause havoc.

This is one of those great in theory, never gonna happen in practice moments. There is a lot that can go wrong.

First you're banking on the idea your opponent is going to absolutely fail at coherency. Otherwise the mawloc is going to only nick one to three bikes. Provided you don't just scatter into the open.

Then you're assuming your opponent will try to focus down the mawloc, provided he even popped out of the ground at all. Instead of just ignoring it as you're more likely to reburrow and thus remove it from the equation for another turn.

There are just too many variables.

If they do not focus it down, then you charge them and crush them, in combat, it's more than likely that they cannot do anything to it

Alright, now you're just assuming the other player won't just move his bikes 36" during his turn...

If they move that far, then they are not shooting, and the Mawloc can then just re bury and problem solved.

 eskimo wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
WOW....So much wrong in this thread. OFC flying hive tyrants are the best unit in the game so they typically overshadow everything else in the codex...

Lets reexamine this "NIDS ARE BAD" idea.

Have you heard of a toxicrine? This thing will eat anything bio alive for the most part. 2+ poision at AP2 and 6's instant death with 6 attacks at I6. Everytime you wound it - it gives you an AP2 hit back. It also fires a large blast with 2+ poison instant death on 6...Realistically this is an excellent close combat beast.

Carnifex with double devourer is a great source of firepower

Also have you see the tyranid drop pods? OP as feth. 15 str 5 shots at 5 w 4+ save t5 and it can move. I've been smoked hard before from these things.

Really I think nids are pretty good. They get a lot of 2+ cover and can take a bunch of MC. Their troops are ultra bad but just don't take them.

You aren't really fully right either.
The Toxicrene is still a 6" moving creature with no access to fleet, while being WS3 with a 4+ sv. He's not even in the codex. The pod does make him work well i suspect (i don't have one). But the pod has it's own issues. It's a ridiculously big model and again, isn't in the codex. The Carnifex isn't a weapons platform, but yet it's his best role. The shrouded cover is life saver for Nids, but it's pure cheese and a big crutch. The troops are far from bad, Rippers deepstriking continue to win me games of maelstrom, shrouded Gaunts are cheap, provide great bubble wraps and tarpits.

Overall the Nid codex is bad. Take away the Devourers and you're lacking against the better armies. The whole codex reeks of lack of thought. While i don't care for having a "strong" codex, i would like a book which has lots in the way of versatility and meaning. Shadow in the Warp and Instinct Behaviour, pointless rules that are written so bad they needn't be in the book, but have potential to give the book character. IB never causes me hassle or benefit, and SITW does nothing, even against Grey Knights while a Flyrant has Pyshic Shriek. Easy fixes....

When i bought the Blood Angels book i was in awe.

Sorry i don't play nids - I only play against them. Didn't realize this was stuff that wasn't in the main codex - still though - it is very strong stuff. You could make a very competitive list cetered around flyrants and tocixcrines on drop pods.

Mozzamanx wrote:
I think GW needs to shake the idea that WS3, A3 and I1 are acceptable for a slow, melee-only model that costs at least 120pts. Flyrants work because they don't rely on melee to beat face. Daemons work because they start at WS6/A5 and variously Fly, Deep Strike, Slaanesh or T7/FNP their way over the board.

Quite frankly a MC deserves to start at WS5/A4 as a base point. And unless it has T7, a 2+ save, or is capable of moving at least 12" per turn, it probably isn't worth any more than 100pts. Considering Tomb Spyders sitting pretty at 50pts for a 3-Wound, RP monster with spawning abilities and even then they are hardly a must-take among the other Necron options.

DE have their 2 MCs, which are T7 with 3+ saves. Generally very meh because they only have a 6" move, 3 wounds, and arent very threatening.
Talos are WS5 and init 4 IIRC but not scary. Melee is just very weak.

oz of the north wrote:

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

lonestarr777 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

Newtype Zero wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Other than Necrons, I think Nids will take the smallest hit. The bikes may be resilient, but a few Mawlocs popping up will destroy bikes. If nids go first can really punish eldar and stop them from being so super killy, also the ability to have mobile shrouding can cause a lot of pain.

Yup...providing the Mawlock doesn't scatter and can kill all of the bikes within 2 hits. Also really looking forward to spending 140 points to kill 1 unit with a unit that will probably be blasted down the turn it comes in anyway.

But while it is firing into that, and you get your armor saves, they are not shooting into another unit, that can move up and cause havoc.

This is one of those great in theory, never gonna happen in practice moments. There is a lot that can go wrong.

First you're banking on the idea your opponent is going to absolutely fail at coherency. Otherwise the mawloc is going to only nick one to three bikes. Provided you don't just scatter into the open.

Then you're assuming your opponent will try to focus down the mawloc, provided he even popped out of the ground at all. Instead of just ignoring it as you're more likely to reburrow and thus remove it from the equation for another turn.

There are just too many variables.

If they do not focus it down, then you charge them and crush them, in combat, it's more than likely that they cannot do anything to it

Alright, now you're just assuming the other player won't just move his bikes 36" during his turn...

If they move that far, then they are not shooting, and the Mawloc can then just re bury and problem solved.

Fair enough, let's go with 12"+2d6" then...

eeeewwwwwwwww pods.

Has anyone even successfully transported their army with 2 or more pods without a suitcase?

Poor model and poor rules.

Can't it just be like it was before with ripper tenticles, those were cool. Or if it lands on a unit it it injures the MC inside and the unit who gets splattered takes a toughness test and is pinned or something. This non-mishap malarky is pointless when you roll scatter dice.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 eskimo wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
WOW....So much wrong in this thread. OFC flying hive tyrants are the best unit in the game so they typically overshadow everything else in the codex...

Lets reexamine this "NIDS ARE BAD" idea.

Have you heard of a toxicrine? This thing will eat anything bio alive for the most part. 2+ poision at AP2 and 6's instant death with 6 attacks at I6. Everytime you wound it - it gives you an AP2 hit back. It also fires a large blast with 2+ poison instant death on 6...Realistically this is an excellent close combat beast.

Carnifex with double devourer is a great source of firepower

Also have you see the tyranid drop pods? OP as feth. 15 str 5 shots at 5 w 4+ save t5 and it can move. I've been smoked hard before from these things.

Really I think nids are pretty good. They get a lot of 2+ cover and can take a bunch of MC. Their troops are ultra bad but just don't take them.

You aren't really fully right either.
The Toxicrene is still a 6" moving creature with no access to fleet, while being WS3 with a 4+ sv. He's not even in the codex. The pod does make him work well i suspect (i don't have one). But the pod has it's own issues. It's a ridiculously big model and again, isn't in the codex. The Carnifex isn't a weapons platform, but yet it's his best role. The shrouded cover is life saver for Nids, but it's pure cheese and a big crutch. The troops are far from bad, Rippers deepstriking continue to win me games of maelstrom, shrouded Gaunts are cheap, provide great bubble wraps and tarpits.

Overall the Nid codex is bad. Take away the Devourers and you're lacking against the better armies. The whole codex reeks of lack of thought. While i don't care for having a "strong" codex, i would like a book which has lots in the way of versatility and meaning. Shadow in the Warp and Instinct Behaviour, pointless rules that are written so bad they needn't be in the book, but have potential to give the book character. IB never causes me hassle or benefit, and SITW does nothing, even against Grey Knights while a Flyrant has Pyshic Shriek. Easy fixes....

When i bought the Blood Angels book i was in awe.

Sorry i don't play nids - I only play against them. Didn't realize this was stuff that wasn't in the main codex - still though - it is very strong stuff. You could make a very competitive list cetered around flyrants and tocixcrines on drop pods.

You know, I play my Toxicrene constantly and I can tell you that he is nothing special. Shrouding is only so good when so many armies can ignore cover and even in CC he is hitting with about 3 of his attacks and while that is good it makes him extremely vulnerable to tarpits. Toxicrene isn't bad, he is probably one of our better MCs but he isn't really great. Plus I joke about it but I have had his pie plate scatter back onto himself then insta-death himself...that was glorious.

The pods get WAAAAY over stated on how good they are. For 75 points you get a T5 6W 4+ save, fairly resilient I grant you and great for holding an objective. But their firepower always gets mentioned and I have to say...15 shots, 5 hits, wounding on 3+ typically, deals 3-4 wounds and you get your saves...That isn't really much. The problem is that is 75 points ontop of what ever you put in the pod and considering most TMCs are still massively over costed you are just throwing more points into a solution that doesn't really add anything to your list.

How many Monstrous Creatures can take the Electro-Shock grubs ?

The Imperial Answer wrote:
How many Monstrous Creatures can take the Electro-Shock grubs ?

Off the top of my head?

Hive Tyrants
Tervigons
T-Fexes
Trygon/Prime

I think that's it....

OP


Yes, they're appallingly weak.

They all have

low WS

low bs

low initiative

small number of attacks

No 2+ armor

Restricted to T6

In tandem with the recent nerf to MC getting plus 2d6 versus tanks

Plus the elder army has rendered your entire tyranid collection, including those of you with bio titans, completely obsolete by putting d weapons on basic infantry.



This wouldn't matter if tyranid monstrous creatures were really cheap points wise, a bit like how gaunts are cheaper than elder, then the nid NC is cheaper than a Wraithknight. Right? Well, no. Your average Nid MC costs between 150-300 points depending on type and upgrade. This makes them a big chunk of your army that due to low toughness and armor makes them easy to kill. As compensation, you would maybe expect high damage. Unlikely, carnifexes go last, have low WS and not very many attacks. Trygons are the closest thing to a CC dedicated and again its attacks and WS let it down. In the previous edition this was offset by being able to fleet move and having re rolls on hit and wound to make sure that ALL of its attacks resulted in kills; otherwise it wouldn't be able to pay back for itself.

Also, most of the nid MC shooting is pretty diabolical. I know that some people like the TL Devourers but otherarmies get access to much better shooting on their MC; D weapons in the new elder codex for example. But even riptides get super gatling cannons of doom.

 N.I.B. wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Toxicrenes are MC killers.

lol



When it comes to new Eldar, problem isn't the D weapons. It's the Scatriders. Completely bonkers.

Btw, oz of the north, you don't have a clue.

They were clearly designed for that role. They do a number on wraithlords, riptides, and just about any other non-daemon MC. Expecting a165 point unit to brutalize a 250+ point unit is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP


Yes, they're appallingly weak.

They all have

low WS

low bs

low initiative

small number of attacks

No 2+ armor

Restricted to T6

In tandem with the recent nerf to MC getting plus 2d6 versus tanks

Plus the elder army has rendered your entire tyranid collection, including those of you with bio titans, completely obsolete by putting d weapons on basic infantry.



This wouldn't matter if tyranid monstrous creatures were really cheap points wise, a bit like how gaunts are cheaper than elder, then the nid NC is cheaper than a Wraithknight. Right? Well, no. Your average Nid MC costs between 150-300 points depending on type and upgrade. This makes them a big chunk of your army that due to low toughness and armor makes them easy to kill. As compensation, you would maybe expect high damage. Unlikely, carnifexes go last, have low WS and not very many attacks. Trygons are the closest thing to a CC dedicated and again its attacks and WS let it down. In the previous edition this was offset by being able to fleet move and having re rolls on hit and wound to make sure that ALL of its attacks resulted in kills; otherwise it wouldn't be able to pay back for itself.

Also, most of the nid MC shooting is pretty diabolical. I know that some people like the TL Devourers but otherarmies get access to much better shooting on their MC; D weapons in the new elder codex for example. But even riptides get super gatling cannons of doom.

What about the Tyrannofex's shooting. The STR 10 Blast looks interesting.

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP


Yes, they're appallingly weak.

They all have

low WS

low bs

low initiative

small number of attacks

No 2+ armor

Restricted to T6

In tandem with the recent nerf to MC getting plus 2d6 versus tanks

Plus the elder army has rendered your entire tyranid collection, including those of you with bio titans, completely obsolete by putting d weapons on basic infantry.



This wouldn't matter if tyranid monstrous creatures were really cheap points wise, a bit like how gaunts are cheaper than elder, then the nid NC is cheaper than a Wraithknight. Right? Well, no. Your average Nid MC costs between 150-300 points depending on type and upgrade. This makes them a big chunk of your army that due to low toughness and armor makes them easy to kill. As compensation, you would maybe expect high damage. Unlikely, carnifexes go last, have low WS and not very many attacks. Trygons are the closest thing to a CC dedicated and again its attacks and WS let it down. In the previous edition this was offset by being able to fleet move and having re rolls on hit and wound to make sure that ALL of its attacks resulted in kills; otherwise it wouldn't be able to pay back for itself.

Also, most of the nid MC shooting is pretty diabolical. I know that some people like the TL Devourers but otherarmies get access to much better shooting on their MC; D weapons in the new elder codex for example. But even riptides get super gatling cannons of doom.

What about the Tyrannofex's shooting. The STR 10 Blast looks interesting.

What S10 blast? You mean the BS3, S10 / AP4 / Assault 2 gun on a 205 point platform? It's anti-tank without the AP to be anti-tank...

There's a lot wrong with the Tyranid book, and it's a shame that a couple of OP units are used as reason to ignore it.

Xyptc wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP


Yes, they're appallingly weak.

They all have

low WS

low bs

low initiative

small number of attacks

No 2+ armor

Restricted to T6

In tandem with the recent nerf to MC getting plus 2d6 versus tanks

Plus the elder army has rendered your entire tyranid collection, including those of you with bio titans, completely obsolete by putting d weapons on basic infantry.



This wouldn't matter if tyranid monstrous creatures were really cheap points wise, a bit like how gaunts are cheaper than elder, then the nid NC is cheaper than a Wraithknight. Right? Well, no. Your average Nid MC costs between 150-300 points depending on type and upgrade. This makes them a big chunk of your army that due to low toughness and armor makes them easy to kill. As compensation, you would maybe expect high damage. Unlikely, carnifexes go last, have low WS and not very many attacks. Trygons are the closest thing to a CC dedicated and again its attacks and WS let it down. In the previous edition this was offset by being able to fleet move and having re rolls on hit and wound to make sure that ALL of its attacks resulted in kills; otherwise it wouldn't be able to pay back for itself.

Also, most of the nid MC shooting is pretty diabolical. I know that some people like the TL Devourers but otherarmies get access to much better shooting on their MC; D weapons in the new elder codex for example. But even riptides get super gatling cannons of doom.

What about the Tyrannofex's shooting. The STR 10 Blast looks interesting.

What S10 blast? You mean the BS3, S10 / AP4 / Assault 2 gun on a 205 point platform? It's anti-tank without the AP to be anti-tank...

There's a lot wrong with the Tyranid book, and it's a shame that a couple of OP units are used as reason to ignore it.

I was mistaken then.

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP


Yes, they're appallingly weak.

They all have

low WS

low bs

low initiative

small number of attacks

No 2+ armor

Restricted to T6

In tandem with the recent nerf to MC getting plus 2d6 versus tanks

Plus the elder army has rendered your entire tyranid collection, including those of you with bio titans, completely obsolete by putting d weapons on basic infantry.



This wouldn't matter if tyranid monstrous creatures were really cheap points wise, a bit like how gaunts are cheaper than elder, then the nid NC is cheaper than a Wraithknight. Right? Well, no. Your average Nid MC costs between 150-300 points depending on type and upgrade. This makes them a big chunk of your army that due to low toughness and armor makes them easy to kill. As compensation, you would maybe expect high damage. Unlikely, carnifexes go last, have low WS and not very many attacks. Trygons are the closest thing to a CC dedicated and again its attacks and WS let it down. In the previous edition this was offset by being able to fleet move and having re rolls on hit and wound to make sure that ALL of its attacks resulted in kills; otherwise it wouldn't be able to pay back for itself.

Also, most of the nid MC shooting is pretty diabolical. I know that some people like the TL Devourers but otherarmies get access to much better shooting on their MC; D weapons in the new elder codex for example. But even riptides get super gatling cannons of doom.

What about the Tyrannofex's shooting. The STR 10 Blast looks interesting.

What S10 blast? You mean the BS3, S10 / AP4 / Assault 2 gun on a 205 point platform? It's anti-tank without the AP to be anti-tank...

There's a lot wrong with the Tyranid book, and it's a shame that a couple of OP units are used as reason to ignore it.

I was mistaken then.

Apologies if that sounded like a put down, it wasn't meant to be

Generally speaking though, Tyranid players have a point when they say that most of their monsters are either over costed or unfit for purpose. There are a couple of good picks in there (Dimachaeron, Toxicrene, Winged Hive Tyrant, Devourer Carnifex, Tyrannocyte) but everything else has serious flaws in the monster department.

Demanding a boost to Wraith Knight levels of OP is the wrong thing to do, but they definitely need something, otherwise we'll never see anything but Flyrants... which is a shame because the Tyranid army could be wonderfully diverse and interesting to fight.

Xyptc wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP


Yes, they're appallingly weak.

They all have

low WS

low bs

low initiative

small number of attacks

No 2+ armor

Restricted to T6

In tandem with the recent nerf to MC getting plus 2d6 versus tanks

Plus the elder army has rendered your entire tyranid collection, including those of you with bio titans, completely obsolete by putting d weapons on basic infantry.



This wouldn't matter if tyranid monstrous creatures were really cheap points wise, a bit like how gaunts are cheaper than elder, then the nid NC is cheaper than a Wraithknight. Right? Well, no. Your average Nid MC costs between 150-300 points depending on type and upgrade. This makes them a big chunk of your army that due to low toughness and armor makes them easy to kill. As compensation, you would maybe expect high damage. Unlikely, carnifexes go last, have low WS and not very many attacks. Trygons are the closest thing to a CC dedicated and again its attacks and WS let it down. In the previous edition this was offset by being able to fleet move and having re rolls on hit and wound to make sure that ALL of its attacks resulted in kills; otherwise it wouldn't be able to pay back for itself.

Also, most of the nid MC shooting is pretty diabolical. I know that some people like the TL Devourers but otherarmies get access to much better shooting on their MC; D weapons in the new elder codex for example. But even riptides get super gatling cannons of doom.

What about the Tyrannofex's shooting. The STR 10 Blast looks interesting.

What S10 blast? You mean the BS3, S10 / AP4 / Assault 2 gun on a 205 point platform? It's anti-tank without the AP to be anti-tank...

There's a lot wrong with the Tyranid book, and it's a shame that a couple of OP units are used as reason to ignore it.

I was mistaken then.

Apologies if that sounded like a put down, it wasn't meant to be

Generally speaking though, Tyranid players have a point when they say that most of their monsters are either over costed or unfit for purpose. There are a couple of good picks in there (Dimachaeron, Toxicrene, Winged Hive Tyrant, Devourer Carnifex, Tyrannocyte) but everything else has serious flaws in the monster department.

Demanding a boost to Wraith Knight levels of OP is the wrong thing to do, but they definitely need something, otherwise we'll never see anything but Flyrants... which is a shame because the Tyranid army could be wonderfully diverse and interesting to fight.

Looking at things I can perhaps see why many of them aren't fielded.

Given you have to invest points wisely it would perhaps be poor strategy to select a Monstrous Creature that won't return its point value on the table or will likely be taken out with little effort by your opponent.

Tyranid Monstrous creatures are not weak, they are balanced. They are what MC's should be in the game. It's that other codices have crazy ass MC's with stupid abilities, units that should not even be MC's, which are the problem. Not naming names but most people probably know which ones I am talking about.

Backfire wrote:
Tyranid Monstrous creatures are not weak, they are balanced. They are what MC's should be in the game. It's that other codices have crazy ass MC's with stupid abilities, units that should not even be MC's, which are the problem. Not naming names but most people probably know which ones I am talking about.

Honestly, I think with that said 'nids would benifit from a gargantuian creature. heck done right that kinda kit could be really fun to build.