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Below are my updates to bring FW Riptides to 40k rules and power levels and rules simplifications.
Anyone have ideas for new riptides or ways to modify existing riptides?

Tau XV109 "Typhoon" Battlesuit............................................... 230 points
WS2 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv3+ Jetpack Monstrous Creature
Wargear: Typhoon battlesuit - Never liked the name Y'vahra - Typhoon goes with the aquatic theme of Tau, Ionic discharge cannon, Phased plasma-flamer, Riptide shield generator, Vectored thruster array, Flechette dispersal pods, all normal suit items like blacksun filters and multi-trackers

Special Rules:Nova Reactor, Supporting Fire, Hit and Run,Fleet - since it basically has a huge VRT
May take up to two items from the Support systems list (see Codex: Tau Empire) with the same restrictions of choice that apply to a Riptide battlesuit.
No Sig Systems
No Drones
Riptide Class Shield Generator: Provides a 5+ Invulnerable save

Phased Plasma-flamer
Str D / AP 2 / Template 1, Gets Hot, Meltdown
Meltdown
If the weapon gets hot, and the save(s) is/are failed, the model is killed. All units within 6+2D6" are hit by a str10, ap2 blast

Ionic Discharge Cannon
Str 8 / AP 4 / 12" Heavy 3, Blind, Haywire Burst
Haywire Burst: For each successful hit this weapon inflicts on a vehicle, roll for a single Haywire hit as well as resolving the attack from the weapon’s profile.
Flechette Dispersal Pods
Whenever the battlesuit enters play from Deep Strike or uses the vectored thruster array it may choose a single unengaged enemy unit within 6" along its movement path to suffer a flechette attack using the following profile. This attack takes place at the end of the XV109's movement phase.
Str 4 / AP 5 / 6" Assault D6, Shred

Vectored Thrust Array
At the beginning of any of the controlling player’s Movement phases, a VX109 battlesuit may choose to perform a Vectored Thrust Array move . This move represents a long bounding leap rather than true flight, the XV109 battlesuit does not gain the Vector Strike special rule while moving in this fashion. This special movement may not be used in two consecutive turns. Can move between 12"-24" in Vectored Thrust Array move. Can only move in a straight line while making this move. Cannot end the move on impassible terrain.

Nova Reactor – Regular Riptide rules
Ability
Nova Barricade
The model’s Invulnerable save is increased to 3+ for the duration of this effect.
Overcharged Ionic Burst
The ionic discharge cannon is treated as Heavy 3+D3 for the duration of this effect.
Escape Thrust
At the start of the Movement phase, the model may be removed from play and placed in Ongoing Reserves. It may do this even if in close combat, in which case any previously engaged models consolidate as normal.
Vector Evasion
The model gains a adds 3+ to its cover saves for the duration of this effect.. Total cover saves can never be more than 2+

Tau XV107 "Tsunami" Battlesuit............................................... 250 points - MOVED TO LOW Slot
WS2 BS3 S6 T7 W6 I2 A3 Ld9 Sv2+
Same idea for name change
Wargear
Tsunami battlesuit all normal suit items like blacksun filters and multi-trackers, 2+ save
Two pulse submunitions cannons
Riptide shield generator - 5++

Special Rules
Nova Reactor
Supporting Fire
No Sig systems
Can take 2 shielded missile drones
May take up to two items from the Support systems list (see Codex: Tau Empire) with the same restrictions of choice that apply to a Riptide battlesuit.

Weapons
Pulse submunitions cannon - Cluster Fire shown as stat line
Against Infantry and bulky models - 60" S7 AP4 Heavy 1, Large Blast - Suffer 1 hit if hit by weapon
Very Bulky/Bike/Jetbike/Beasts/Cavalry 60" S8 AP4 Heavy 1, Large Blast - Suffer 2 hits if hit by weapon
Extremely Bulky/Artillery/MC/FMC/Vehicles/Buildings/Fortifications 60" S9 AP4 Heavy 1, Large Blast - Suffer 3 hits if hit by weapon
Super Heavy/Gargantuan creatures 60" S10 AP4 Heavy 1, Large Blast - Suffer 4 hits if hit by weapon

Can replace 1 or both Pulse cannons with:
Heavy Rail Guns for 10pts each.
72" SD AP1 Heavy 1, Primary Weapon


Nova Reactor – Regular Riptide rules
Nova Shield
The model’s Invulnerable saves are increased to 3+.
Volley Fire
The model’s weapons can each be fired twice. Even though these weapons are fired twice, each still only counts as firing a single weapon. If this option is chosen then the Tsunami may not fire its weapons at all in the subsequent turn. ( not including the Shockwave attack)
Electromagnetic Shockwave
All models within 6" of the Tsunami's base, enemy and friendly, suffer an immediate D6 Strength 2 AP 5 hit with the Haywire type.
Flank Speed
The model gains the Fleet and can make a 2D6 assault move

I want to say that FW did a bad thing with the Y'Vahra's rules, on account of it being quite ridiculous. Amusingly, it's not nearly as horrible as a Riptide to face, since the Y'vahra is really just a Tau-flavored Dreadknight.

And much like the DK- and most MCs in general, in fact- it wants to be right up in your face, where it can be shot with all the plasma/melta/grav/any other AP2 and AP1 guns that you have.

But then, OP, you came along. And you bizarrely nerfed the funky Ion gat of the Y'vahra, and ridiculously buff the already powerful plasma flamer?!

I don't know whats worse, the fact that you're proposing a D-strength template, or that you're proposing it for a unit which has Jet Pack movement and MC-level durability.

Whiskey144 wrote:
I want to say that FW did a bad thing with the Y'Vahra's rules, on account of it being quite ridiculous. Amusingly, it's not nearly as horrible as a Riptide to face, since the Y'vahra is really just a Tau-flavored Dreadknight.

And much like the DK- and most MCs in general, in fact- it wants to be right up in your face, where it can be shot with all the plasma/melta/grav/any other AP2 and AP1 guns that you have.

But then, OP, you came along. And you bizarrely nerfed the funky Ion gat of the Y'vahra, and ridiculously buff the already powerful plasma flamer?!

I don't know whats worse, the fact that you're proposing a D-strength template, or that you're proposing it for a unit which has Jet Pack movement and MC-level durability.

Its all a reaction to D level weapons showing up everywhere.

The Ion Gun really is a vehicle killer with its crazy haywire attacks. I nerfed the dmg output so that it didn't have 2 weapons that punched through MEQ or lower armor.
The flamer change gets rid of a dumb torrent rule, going to full torrent is probably going to far. The Flamer does not spew fire but, Phased plasma so, to me, its plasma at 10 to the 8th power Kelvin (magnetic fusion plasma) phasing in and out of reality which cooks you inside your armor while simultaneously melting your armor if not just vaporizing you instantly.

Reduced the flamer to 1 template, Added a meltdown special rule which instakills the model if failing a gets hot save.

Hyperbole: there are zero D weapons in the BA codex.

why not just take the FW riptides in 40k. you're allowed to even if it's looked down upon. i don't think they need rule changes.

The problems with your changes is that the two weapons were powerful but not obscene. What you have done is made one worse and the other ridiculously broken.

Ranged Destroyer weapons are still fairly rare... though some of the leaked info from the new Eldar book make that seem like its about to change big time. Moreover, while I realize that the flamer weapon of the Y'Vahra is not actually spewing fire, that still doesn't make it D-grade firepower.

In fact, there doesn't actually exist any plasma weapon with Str. The really high-end Imperial examples tend to be S8 or S10, depending on whether you want fire rate or range+blast size.

At best, the Phase-Plasma Flamer could get S8. Imperial plasma weapons at S10 tend to be the enormous "here are the keys to your new Titan" size of kit. The Y'Vahra was a good vehicle killer thanks to multiple hits that inflicted both S8 and Haywire, plus a great deal of anti-HI firepower from the PPF.

There's also the fact that you could always fire the PPF on a "partial rotation", bypassing Gets Hot. I'd say it's a bit sucktacular to remove that ability to dial down the power in favor of improved reliability.

mhalko1 wrote:
why not just take the FW riptides in 40k. you're allowed to even if it's looked down upon. i don't think they need rule changes.

Frankly I don't see how anyone allows FW kits in regular 40k games.

The units are not in the 40k codices
The units, for the most part are not 40k approved
The rules are not approved and mostly experimental
The rules are, from what i've seen, not inline with current 40k rules
The Units/models are either under costed for how powerful they are or much more powerful than similar 40k units.
FW creates their own books for their models that contain specific rules and campaigns etc.. for their models.

It's a separate game, within the same universe.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated -

The xv107 would be moved to LOW slot

Yes, both of these riptides have d weapons or options to get d weapons, but you pay for them

The XV109 costs 230 base, with FNP and interceptor, it brings its cost up to 270pts
The XV107 costs 250 base, with FNP and interceptor, its 290pts - as i've suggested it can add 2 d str rail guns for 10pts each bringing it up to 310 pts.

Its a LOW so you can only have 1 in most FOC, other than unbound.

The XV 109 D template is still only 12 inches and i've made him have 3+ armor due to having to carry around its giant jetpack and only has 4 wounds and BS is down to 3.

Please don't start this argument again.

So I've just looked over your updated Y'vahra rules... still looks to me like its a mix of "nerf things which are fine, megabuff things that are already amazing".

As for the R'varna thing... you've given an unnecessary buff to the Pulse Submunition Cannons, and you've also misrepresented the Heavy Railgun profile; the weapon originates in FW publications. The most recent IA3:2E puts the HRG as being 110" Ordnance 1 S AP1 Primary Weapon... with no blast whatsoever.

They can fire a blast profile... it's just S7/AP3, not S AP1. So, yeah. Care to explain why the Tau get a cheapass Destroyer firearm on a bigass fancy battlesuit, when everybody else has to put their Destroyer-grade cannons onto superheavy/GC sized platforms?

Naaris wrote:
*snip stuff about FW not being game legal*

Oh, nevermind. I realize that what you want is an excuse to buff the FW units through the roof. Gotcha, I'll just moonwalk out of the thread then, because I doubt that anything I say will actually make a difference.

Please learn how to science

An atomic bomb going off only reaches temperatures of 10 to the 7th Kelvin, how does plasma go beyond that? And what's this nonsense about plasma "phasing in and out of reality"? What, if you shoot me with it does it go back in time and kill my parents, preventing me from being born while it's at it? The only weapons that are described as "phasing reality" are fictional warp-based weapons like wraithcannons. If reaching extreme temperatures made you warp reality then stars should all do it, as well as atomic blasts. And why does the gun explode in a blast that averages 13" if you fail an armor save? Do you understand that this blast will cover a a quarter of a table, and this blast will always happen near opponents since you need to get this thing up close? If a plasma weapon explodes, it can't release more plasma than what was inside the gun itself. The reactor inside the suit itself would make a bigger explosion than the gun could possibly make.

As for the rail gun, where is the blast coming from? A rail gun fires a solid slug at extreme speed.... literally the same as a bullet, but at much higher velocity. When it hits something, sure, it tears a hole through it. I can understand a D-strength rail slug. But where is the explosion coming from? Let me guess, the slug goes so fast it creates a wormhole around the impact zone? A metal slug whipping past you without coming in contact with you won't hurt you. There is no explosive in a rail slug, it's solid metal. The sound of it might hurt your ears, if it's large enough maybe there's a gust of air following it, but it's not going to kill a marine that it doesn't hit directly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for all that stuff about FW stuff not being legal in a game.... why should anyone accept your homebrew, not-even-produced-by-a-gaming-company rules if they shouldn't accept FW stuff as legal rules either? If we're going to say FW isn't legal there's no way I'm letting you play your rules, unless we agree tactical marines have 4 wounds, a 2+ invuln, relentless, FNP 2+, and strength 7 bolters.

After seeing your thoughts on how FW works, op, I think it is safe to assume you have no idea and have never read a FW book because, for the most part, you are completely and demonstrably wrong.

Riptides need nerfs, not buffs.