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I played a game vs Tau (I played orks we rolled eternal war, the emperors will, hammer and anvil) and I played my all around list ( I have crushed all the races with this list keep in mind)

Grukk

2 > Painboy

2> 20 boyz footslogging with nob BC

1> 15 boyz footslogging with nob BC

3> trukks 11 boyz with nob PK

2> 6 lootas

Grotz as well!

warbikes 6 with nobz pk

mek guns with 5 kannons

nobz in battle wagon

Tau
crisis suits with a Buffmander (Friend kept calling him that )

2 > hammerheads one with hero guy

2 > fire warriors with fireblade dude

2 > riptides

2 > Marklights

Now understand that I played knowing I was at a huge disadvantage but this considering im able to kick the crap out eldar and other races with this list without breaking a sweat so figured I would do alright! Long story short I killed 4 shield drones and did some wounds to the riptides! They on the other hand killed my whole army! Now my friend used to play orks before deciding he wanted to win every game he ever plays again (I say this with love) but we talked on how orks would beat tau and go over what would be good and what would be bad when I finally said "you know the problem I have is the fact I have to literally tailor a list just for one race." and its true! Most races are not put into such a disadvantage as orks vs tau. But tau are disgusting! (granted I had horrible rolls and everything when I would assault he would overwatch them all to death!)

Im fine with losing but killing 4 shield drones ONLY! And watching my whole army die was not fun at all! Best part is he though I was bringing a stompa so he was concerned with what he brought which made me want to spit fire!

Your thoughts?

You better not look at eldar rumors

Tau are not cheese, Riptides are.

I would love to play tau if my opponent did not use the riptide.

Tau arent too bad.
-Riptide spam is bad though.
-The supporting fire is rather cheesy though.
-Also, marker lights. Units should get cover saves against them. of course not armor saves, but cover saves actually make sense as the lil beam still has to actually hit the target and can be blocked by intervening objects Take a laser pointer and aim it at a target against the wall, them put your hand up to intersect the beam and although your hand is not harmed (hopefully lol), the beam will no longer be hitting the target on the wall.

Fix the latter two in the rules and fix the first in the players and they will be fine.

You brought a horde army against an army that is really good at killing hordes. The results of that battle were predictable before the first model was placed on the table.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Tau are not cheese, Riptides are.

I would love to play tau if my opponent did not use the riptide.

I agree cause they are insane 2+ save is such crap for giant robot doom blasting machines! Especially for orks! (get in range with kustom blastas and spend crap tons of points for Mek Gunz with kustom mega blastas)

But that sucks cause I literally have to tailor a list for one god forsaken race!

Also 1d4chans deal about them on 7th doesn't give me comfort!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Tau arent too bad.
-Riptide spam is bad though.
-The supporting fire is rather cheesy though.
-Also, marker lights. Units should get cover saves against them. of course not armor saves, but cover saves actually make sense as the lil beam still has to actually hit the target and can be blocked by intervening objects Take a laser pointer and aim it at a target against the wall, them put your hand up to intersect the beam and although your hand is not harmed (hopefully lol), the beam will no longer be hitting the target on the wall.

Fix the latter two in the rules and fix the first in the players and they will be fine.

I agree The fact that marklights can take cover saves away really disappoints me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
You brought a horde army against an army that is really good at killing hordes. The results of that battle were predictable before the first model was placed on the table.

This then brings up the point that I am forced to make a list specially for tau so when I am at the tournament I have to go "wait let me bring out my tau list"

Also any ork players have a word about this?

Riptides are capable of getting a 3+ invulnerable saves and feel no pain.

Each vendetta hits with 2.25 lascannons each turn. Riptides are 7 toughness? So i need a 2 + to wound so I generally will always get my wounds. then he needs to made 3 up saves which will negate 1 or both of them. Then he as feel no pain.

Statistically with 5 vendettas I will get 11.25 hits, and 9.36 wounds a turn. After invulnerable saves I will make 3.11 wounds, and after feel no pain I will make 2.07 wounds. So with 5 vendettas firing at a riptide a turn, It will take 3 turn to kill a riptide.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Riptides are capable of getting a 3+ invulnerable saves and feel no pain.

Each vendetta hits with 2.25 lascannons each turn. Riptides are 7 toughness? So i need a 2 + to wound so I generally will always get my wounds. then he needs to made 3 up saves which will negate 1 or both of them. Then he as feel no pain.

Statistically with 5 vendettas I will get 11.25 hits, and 9.36 wounds a turn. After invulnerable saves I will make 3.11 wounds, and after feel no pain I will make 2.07 wounds. So with 5 vendettas firing at a riptide a turn, It will take 3 turn to kill a riptide.

Now do orks who have no lascannons.. the best thing they have are mek gunz kustom mega kannons which are str 8 ap 2! Now I know if my orks get in assault with a riptide it will eventually die but hammer and anvil and sitting on the end of the table opening some chardonnay and laughing as the orks trukks blow up left and right and ork boyz running to there dooms is just messed up! I told my friend " next time bring a squad of kroot so I can kill something!

Ork are bads

So, as a person who JUST RECENTLY made a "FETH the tau" post...

That's not a great all-round list, friend. You got a WHOLE lot of anti-infantry skew in there, and in particular nothing that can handle a really solid super-melee Death Star style list. Any kind of kiting-based shooting list is going to be able to pop your trukks and kite your footsloggers easily while your very light anti-armor weaponry isn't gonna hurt anything.

Easy suggestions to pump that list up:

-Swap Kannons for KMKs. 100% worth the cost. Also you get WAY more mileage out of boyz if you bring them as a Green Tide. You've got....let's see, 40, 55, 91... 91 boyz w Nobz already? Get a Warboss with Da Big Bosspole, one more boyz box to get 100, stick the Painboy in there and you've got a super solid unit that is True Fearless and you save the cost on your second Painboy and save an HQ slot.

Now you've got Trukks lying around yeah? That's perfect for MANz bombs, tankbustas (easy to scratch build with Boyz wielding Rokkits from the boyz kit), or even more boyz to run interference.


So, to sum up:

-your anti tank is too spread out among solo PKs. Id much rather see a MANz bomb or Tankbustas squad so you can focus fire instead if having to send your boyz against tanks just to use your three Klaw attacks

-a green tide is just awesome. 90 boyz, 10 Nobz, a Big Bosspole Boss and a Painboy is just a wall of death. This'll really help your army composition just due to point efficiency.

-I'd love to see KMKs. Honestly just call them KMKs don't have to change the model/spend money.

-Those trukks you now have lying around are perfect for MANz bombs and Tankbustas

tbh, Tau can be cheesy, but it depends how unlucky you are and what pts your'e playing. Small pts (1000pts or less) they aren't as good imo, yet they are good from 1000-2500 pts, but they're terrible at apoc without allies. It also depends on how many riptides they have.

overall, Tau are more cheesy than average, but they're not eldar.

Nah Tau aint cheese, they're just good against Orks. Every way Tau is meant to be played is to stay out of combat, while irks are meant to be in combat. You can't hurt us if you can't get to us.

Riptides are what are cheesy. I don't condone the use of riptide spam. I would only use 1 in a 2k point game.

I also play FSE, so I only use suits

the_scotsman wrote:
So, as a person who JUST RECENTLY made a "FETH the tau" post...

That's not a great all-round list, friend. You got a WHOLE lot of anti-infantry skew in there, and in particular nothing that can handle a really solid super-melee Death Star style list. Any kind of kiting-based shooting list is going to be able to pop your trukks and kite your footsloggers easily while your very light anti-armor weaponry isn't gonna hurt anything.

Easy suggestions to pump that list up:

-Swap Kannons for KMKs. 100% worth the cost. Also you get WAY more mileage out of boyz if you bring them as a Green Tide. You've got....let's see, 40, 55, 91... 91 boyz w Nobz already? Get a Warboss with Da Big Bosspole, one more boyz box to get 100, stick the Painboy in there and you've got a super solid unit that is True Fearless and you save the cost on your second Painboy and save an HQ slot.

Now you've got Trukks lying around yeah? That's perfect for MANz bombs, tankbustas (easy to scratch build with Boyz wielding Rokkits from the boyz kit), or even more boyz to run interference.


So, to sum up:

-your anti tank is too spread out among solo PKs. Id much rather see a MANz bomb or Tankbustas squad so you can focus fire instead if having to send your boyz against tanks just to use your three Klaw attacks

-a green tide is just awesome. 90 boyz, 10 Nobz, a Big Bosspole Boss and a Painboy is just a wall of death. This'll really help your army composition just due to point efficiency.

-I'd love to see KMKs. Honestly just call them KMKs don't have to change the model/spend money.

-Those trukks you now have lying around are perfect for MANz bombs and Tankbustas

Man I get that but.. my list has actually crushed most armies (chaos, space wolves, eldar, most space marines, nids, sister, imperial guard) Tankbustas I regret not bringing but still tankbusta with BS 2 is hoping you hit a riptide and watch it laugh as he rolls its saves. Kanz are meh IMO most of the time they are dying and making great cover for my boyz to hop around besides that I never wish to take them. Most of the time when I play I sprint my trukks forward with the battle wagon and WAAAGH! (I take the ork horde detachment which gives me WAAAGH ever turn after the first as long as I keep my boss alive.) Most the time I dont get FB but I always just over run them and the boyz in the back footslogging can grab objectives or finish off whats left. Granted I took Bikes because I knew I needed speed to get in assault with the Tau. And I have seen my mob of boyz with nobz kill of even the worst deathstars (Iron hand smash- F***er, jetbike spam with eldar, even thunderwolves) I like to think of myself as a "somewhat veteran player"

The other thing is why bother with artillery at range of 36" He laughed and told me "I am not going for your objective I am gonna sit right here and shoot your army to bitz" so my artillery slowly walked across the battle field and when ever i got in range he jet packed 6 inches away. He won cause of FB and slay the warlord he was kinda going for line breaker. But had no intention of actually getting my objective.

What I will say is if we played maelstrom I would kick the crap out of him cause he only had three mobile units me on the other hand could grab objectives left and right. I think because of the game type and the map that all the odds were against me which bums me out cause Instead of wasting three hours I just wanted to say "well from the map and game type you won there is literally nothing I can do might as well roll another mission!"

If you think that Tau are cheesy then you clearly haven't played against IoM, Daemons, Eldar or Necrons. All are FAR cheesier then Tau.

You think that Orks are bad? Orks at tournaments average out at 7th position whilst Tau are at 10th... So who's cheesier now?

This is another case of "waaah (or is it Waaagh? ) I lost a game against Tau therefore they're cheesy and OP!"

I've lost as many games against Orks as Tau as I have won so are Orks equally cheesy? I'd say yes due to cheap and easily spammable painboyz and that utterly broken lucky still!

SGTPozy wrote:
If you think that Tau are cheesy then you clearly haven't played against IoM, Daemons, Eldar or Necrons. All are FAR cheesier then Tau.

You think that Orks are bad? Orks at tournaments average out at 7th position whilst Tau are at 10th... So who's cheesier now?

This is another case of "waaah (or is it Waaagh? ) I lost a game against Tau therefore they're cheesy and OP!"

I've lost as many games against Orks as Tau as I have won so are Orks equally cheesy? I'd say yes due to cheap and easily spammable painboyz and that utterly broken lucky still!

Knew one of you would show up might as well link this : http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Tau%287E%29 so I am not the only one who think this. Plus I have stomped all over IoM and necrons even daemons. I have gone up against cheese list the thing you don't get my miss informed friend is I am fine with losing but if I don't kill any of the other army and literally lose half of mine I do have a problem! 4 shield drones all I killed! Now of course you call me a noob I am fine with that. Never said Orks were bad honestly most people do complain about my orks a lot!

All I am saying "friend" Is when after the game me and my friend (WHO USED TO PLAY ORKS!) were talking on how we could do alright and we both came to the conclusion that there is no hope for orks to win in this scenario.

Play Maelstrom to stop him taking a gunline. GW tries to force Tau to play gunline (just like GKs with alpha strike) but most Tau players don't do this (unlike GK players) as we cannot stay static with Maelstrom.

Footslogging Orks don't work well against any army as EVERY army can kill most of the unit off before you reach them.

Of course Orks won't win against a gunline (of any army; IG, Tau, Eldar etc.) Without loads of terrain (do you use loads of terrain?).

SGTPozy wrote:
Play Maelstrom to stop him taking a gunline. GW tries to force Tau to play gunline (just like GKs with alpha strike) but most Tau players don't do this (unlike GK players) as we cannot stay static with Maelstrom.

Footslogging Orks don't work well against any army as EVERY army can kill most of the unit off before you reach them.

Of course Orks won't win against a gunline (of any army; IG, Tau, Eldar etc.) Without loads of terrain (do you use loads of terrain?).

Gun lines were scary but the fact I can run and charge is a game changer letting my boyz get into assault quick. Tau though have support fire meaning everyone within 6 inches gets to overwatch with the squad which frankly is slowed! I could not make one assault every time he would shot my chargers off the map (reminds me of old KFF where if one model from a horde was within range of the KFF then the whole squad gets it.)

Terrain wise there was more terrain is this match then normal because he told me to to add lots of terrain to kill LOS did not matter! You have to understand that my friend WANTED to see me do good he brought a mean list cause I told him that my orks have been doing well and he hasn't played orks sense way back when so he wanted to see them do good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also totally agree with the idea of doing Maelstrom.

I think that lobbas would've helped you more than kannons to be honest as they could've (hopefully) broken down his fire warriors to reduce the overwatch.

Did you target his Riptides with your shooting?

SGTPozy wrote:
I think that lobbas would've helped you more than kannons to be honest as they could've (hopefully) broken down his fire warriors to reduce the overwatch.

Did you target his Riptides with your shooting?

The problem with fire warriors is they were waaay to far away not only did he have no LOS but i didn't as well my frag kannons could do nothing but move Kannons are IMO better then lobbas because they can switch from str 8 ap 3 (insta killing crisis suits) or frag rounds. My lootas shot the riptides and flicked off a couple wounds but that is it.

What would ever make you think you're the only one? Have you been on Dakka over the last few years? There's been a lot of gnashing about Tau, especially when combined with Eldar. They were the go-to broken army in 6th. They're a really powerful army, and Orks are considerably weaker unfortunately.

As soon as I saw this thread I knew Pozy would be here to play the victim.

But no- Tau are not "cheesy" inherently. It's more that Orks are a little on the weak side and it's harder to avoid the idea of simply marching down the board with them.

 Brother SRM wrote:
What would ever make you think you're the only one? Have you been on Dakka over the last few years? There's been a lot of gnashing about Tau, especially when combined with Eldar. They were the go-to broken army in 6th. They're a really powerful army, and Orks are considerably weaker unfortunately.

That is true and I knew that but still to be so thoroughly beaten really opened my eyes to how horrible crazy cheesy they can be

Tau are in the middle of the pack in terms of win percentage. Elder, Necrons, SM, and Imperial Knights are all way better.

To try and make something productive out of this thread... how would veteran Ork players suggest taking on a Riptide or three?

 Ignatius wrote:
As soon as I saw this thread I knew Pozy would be here to play the victim.

But no- Tau are not "cheesy" inherently. It's more that Orks are a little on the weak side and it's harder to avoid the idea of simply marching down the board with them.

Man not trying to make anyone into a "victim" pozy if anything was giving me ideas on how to combat the Tau. Well his first post was a little forward with the idea that im on a rant and just complaining to complain which granted I am doing. But I have played alot of 40k and never have I been so thoroughly smashed into pulp and was hoping a Ork player would be like "Oi Tau are just a bunch of grotz and Ize beat em all the time heres how... "

From there I would write down everthing that ork player said and worship him as a god.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
To try and make something productive out of this thread... how would veteran Ork players suggest taking on a Riptide or three?

Exactly!

Nope, i hate Tau. I would fight literally any other army over Tau.

 zombiekila707 wrote:

The problem with fire warriors is they were waaay to far away not only did he have no LOS but i didn't as well my frag kannons could do nothing but move Kannons are IMO better then lobbas because they can switch from str 8 ap 3 (insta killing crisis suits) or frag rounds. My lootas shot the riptides and flicked off a couple wounds but that is it.

I do agree that kannons are better against more units but lobbas IME beat Fire Warriors as Tau have awful leadership so if you can pin some that helps a fair bit.

I think that targeting the riptides was a mistake too since I find that its usually best to ignore them and just kill everything else.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Nope, i hate Tau. I would fight literally any other army over Tau.

What about the new Eldar with massed S6 shooting in their troops slots and SD in their elite slots?

 Ignatius wrote:
As soon as I saw this thread I knew Pozy would be here to play the victim.
.

How was I "playing the victim"? I was defending Tau as they're complained about so much but tey're nowhere near as bad as many other armies (unless you allow them to play gunline by playing old-style missions).

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Tau are not cheese, Riptides are.

I would love to play tau if my opponent did not use the riptide.

Pretty much this. Riptides are one of the most broken MCs in a sea of strong MCs.