So am I the only one who thinks Tau are just cheese!

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**the_scotsman**

zombiekila707 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
So, as a person who JUST RECENTLY made a "FETH the tau" post...

That's not a great all-round list, friend. You got a WHOLE lot of anti-infantry skew in there, and in particular nothing that can handle a really solid super-melee Death Star style list. Any kind of kiting-based shooting list is going to be able to pop your trukks and kite your footsloggers easily while your very light anti-armor weaponry isn't gonna hurt anything.

Easy suggestions to pump that list up:

-Swap Kannons for KMKs. 100% worth the cost. Also you get WAY more mileage out of boyz if you bring them as a Green Tide. You've got....let's see, 40, 55, 91... 91 boyz w Nobz already? Get a Warboss with Da Big Bosspole, one more boyz box to get 100, stick the Painboy in there and you've got a super solid unit that is True Fearless and you save the cost on your second Painboy and save an HQ slot.

Now you've got Trukks lying around yeah? That's perfect for MANz bombs, tankbustas (easy to scratch build with Boyz wielding Rokkits from the boyz kit), or even more boyz to run interference.

So, to sum up:

-your anti tank is too spread out among solo PKs. Id much rather see a MANz bomb or Tankbustas squad so you can focus fire instead if having to send your boyz against tanks just to use your three Klaw attacks

-a green tide is just awesome. 90 boyz, 10 Nobz, a Big Bosspole Boss and a Painboy is just a wall of death. This'll really help your army composition just due to point efficiency.

-I'd love to see KMKs. Honestly just call them KMKs don't have to change the model/spend money.

-Those trukks you now have lying around are perfect for MANz bombs and Tankbustas

Man I get that but.. my list has actually crushed most armies (chaos, space wolves, eldar, most space marines, nids, sister, imperial guard) Tankbustas I regret not bringing but still tankbusta with BS 2 is hoping you hit a riptide and watch it laugh as he rolls its saves. Kanz are meh IMO most of the time they are dying and making great cover for my boyz to hop around besides that I never wish to take them. Most of the time when I play I sprint my trukks forward with the battle wagon and WAAAGH! (I take the ork horde detachment which gives me WAAAGH ever turn after the first as long as I keep my boss alive.) Most the time I dont get FB but I always just over run them and the boyz in the back footslogging can grab objectives or finish off whats left. Granted I took Bikes because I knew I needed speed to get in assault with the Tau. And I have seen my mob of boyz with nobz kill of even the worst deathstars (Iron hand smash- F***er, jetbike spam with eldar, even thunderwolves) I like to think of myself as a "somewhat veteran player"

The other thing is why bother with artillery at range of 36" He laughed and told me "I am not going for your objective I am gonna sit right here and shoot your army to bitz" so my artillery slowly walked across the battle field and when ever i got in range he jet packed 6 inches away. He won cause of FB and slay the warlord he was kinda going for line breaker. But had no intention of actually getting my objective.

What I will say is if we played maelstrom I would kick the crap out of him cause he only had three mobile units me on the other hand could grab objectives left and right. I think because of the game type and the map that all the odds were against me which bums me out cause Instead of wasting three hours I just wanted to say "well from the map and game type you won there is literally nothing I can do might as well roll another mission!"

Well, I pretty much always try to play maelstrom for that reason, I hate gunlines.

But a couple points:

1) Most tau stuff has a range of 36" other than the riptides. If your KMKs are exerting a 36" bubble ahead of your main army then they're more than doing their job keeping him from doing much damage to you. Also, remember you just need a model in Mega-Armor with the gunz to give them Slow and Purposeful and allow them to fire on the run. Also helps to have a model with a 2+ armor save standing out front with Majority T7.

2) Tankbustas are definitely not for riptides. The orky way to deal with riptides is charging with mobile units. Turbo boost a MANz bomb at a riptide turn 1 and it's kind of toast or at least tied up for the rest of the game. Tankbustas are great for dealing with Tau tanks though with Tank Hunters SR.

**Ignatius**

SGTPozy wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
As soon as I saw this thread I knew Pozy would be here to play the victim.
.

How was I "playing the victim"? I was defending Tau as they're complained about so much but tey're nowhere near as bad as many other armies (unless you allow them to play gunline by playing old-style missions).

Meh. You always seem to come into threads and loudly proclaim that Tau are complained about too much, or that they aren't as good as people say, and especially that the Imperium armies are "OMG too good". Your tone and verbiage just points to it often.

Which is okay, but I'll respectfully disagree.

**Martel732**

Riptides will be one of the few things that scatter bikes will have a hard time killing. Of course, everything else will die miserably. But at least they'll always have their Riptides.

**A Town Called Malus**

Martel732 wrote:
Riptides will be one of the few things that scatter bikes will have a hard time killing. Of course, everything else will die miserably. But at least they'll always have their Riptides.

But then again, a unit of wraithguard will probably make short work of a Riptide.

**aronthomas17**

OP hasn't played against Eldar recently... Makes Tau look like cuddly bears with nerf guns.

**dragoonmaster101**

jreilly89 wrote:
Nope, i hate Tau. I would fight literally any other army over Tau.

Have you met Bob? He brings a Necron, decurion, wraith spam list everyday and laughs at you, your family, and all of your friends when you lose. I can whole heartedly tell you that you would fight anyone other than Bob even compared to Tau.

And are Tau cheese? No army is cheese. They just have some units that people like to abuse and if you are playing a kind person he will limit his use of those units.

**Raven Cowl**

Tau are ok. Not great, just gotta get into the gunline or ignore the tide and play to the mission.

**Robisagg**

Martel732 wrote:
Sledgehammer wrote:
Tau are not cheese, Riptides are.

I would love to play tau if my opponent did not use the riptide.

Pretty much this. Riptides are one of the most broken MCs in a sea of strong MCs.

As a daemon player, I've never had a problem. Corner them, kill their markerlights and they fold like paper

**Grey Templar**

Tau used to be full on cheese. Now they've mellowed out but they're still quite strong. Definitely stronger than Orks.

**jreilly89**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Nope, i hate Tau. I would fight literally any other army over Tau.

What about the new Eldar with massed S6 shooting in their troops slots and SD in their elite slots?

Eh, that's a tough call. I'd say I'd rather fight Eldar, just because I can't even stand to look at Tau.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

dragoonmaster101 wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Nope, i hate Tau. I would fight literally any other army over Tau.

Have you met Bob? He brings a Necron, decurion, wraith spam list everyday and laughs at you, your family, and all of your friends when you lose. I can whole heartedly tell you that you would fight anyone other than Bob even compared to Tau.

And are Tau cheese? No army is cheese. They just have some units that people like to abuse and if you are playing a kind person he will limit his use of those units.

Yeah, I play a Necron player quite a lot. Don't get me wrong, the new Necron are super annoying, but most of their stuff is 24" range, meaning I can skirt around it, or they want ot get into CC, in which I can play around them. Tau are average range 36". Plus Necrons can't give Ignores Cover to everything.

**Jefffar**

As a Tau player I am happy with Markerlights being negated by cover saves just as soon as Markerlights cause wounds that can be negated.

If you want cover to work against the Markerlights are as they work now, you'll have to change the entire way cover works in this game.

**gmaleron**

Tau are not cheese in the slightest, they took a hard hit in power when 7th edition came out. The Riptide spam list is strong but its not OP, Tau in general are a tough matchup for Orks but there are ways to deal with them and there are several threads on here discussing this very topic.

**BoomWolf**

Ignatius wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
As soon as I saw this thread I knew Pozy would be here to play the victim.
.

How was I "playing the victim"? I was defending Tau as they're complained about so much but tey're nowhere near as bad as many other armies (unless you allow them to play gunline by playing old-style missions).

Meh. You always seem to come into threads and loudly proclaim that Tau are complained about too much, or that they aren't as good as people say, and especially that the Imperium armies are "OMG too good". Your tone and verbiage just points to it often.

Which is okay, but I'll respectfully disagree.

Because it's true. Tau Do get unproportional complaints claiming them to be OP, while they don't see heavy play on turny level, and rarely get a single top10 spot.

I will be the last to claim tau are weak. But they are nowhere near what some people on dakka make of them.

**Sidstyler**

It also doesn't help that Tau used to get a lot of complaints about being "OP" in the past when they were anything but. 4th edition Fish of Fury was annoying, that was about as bad as it ever got. They were mediocre in 3rd and almost unplayable in 5th. It was mainly just whining and crying because they didn't like the JSJ mechanic or the fact that fire warriors had a stronger gun than the mighty bolter.

Even now it's mostly two or three things propping up the rest of the book. The riptide, Supporting Fire, the cheapness of Ignores Cover, and the HYMP are mainly what make them so hard to deal with. Some wargear also needs to be upped in price, the first and most obvious one being EWO. I don't really feel like Tau are that hard to fix.

Also, anyone claiming that Tau are worse than the new Eldar is just straight-up lying. Unless you've seen leaks of a new Tau codex or something.

**Boniface**

We Tau players just have to accept that Tau are just a hated race. It's all because we don't want to get into HtH at all.
All other races do.

If we constantly advanced and shot, then assaulted we wouldn't be hated anywhere near as much. It's the reason Eldar and Necrons (both of who are far more OP) are allowed to be.

It's like HtH is a pre requisite to 40k because it's a 'phase'

**jreilly89**

Boniface wrote:
We Tau players just have to accept that Tau are just a hated race. It's all because we don't want to get into HtH at all.
All other races do.

If we constantly advanced and shot, then assaulted we wouldn't be hated anywhere near as much. It's the reason Eldar and Necrons (both of who are far more OP) are allowed to be.

It's like HtH is a pre requisite to 40k because it's a 'phase'

My biggest thing against Tau is its hard to use their range to your advantage. Outside of Drop Pods, most targets are always in range because Tau guns are on average 36". Necrons are insanely tough to kill, but most of their stuff is limited to 24"

**Boniface**

jreilly89 wrote:
Boniface wrote:
We Tau players just have to accept that Tau are just a hated race. It's all because we don't want to get into HtH at all.
All other races do.

If we constantly advanced and shot, then assaulted we wouldn't be hated anywhere near as much. It's the reason Eldar and Necrons (both of who are far more OP) are allowed to be.

It's like HtH is a pre requisite to 40k because it's a 'phase'

My biggest thing against Tau is its hard to use their range to your advantage. Outside of Drop Pods, most targets are always in range because Tau guns are on average 36". Necrons are insanely tough to kill, but most of their stuff is limited to 24"

What else do we have?

Necrons have 5+++ permanently.
Eldar have Pseudo rending and run shoot.

Tau fold in combat like no other race in the game. But we're a shooting army.
We should have good guns.

**notredameguy10**

Boniface wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Boniface wrote:
We Tau players just have to accept that Tau are just a hated race. It's all because we don't want to get into HtH at all.
All other races do.

If we constantly advanced and shot, then assaulted we wouldn't be hated anywhere near as much. It's the reason Eldar and Necrons (both of who are far more OP) are allowed to be.

It's like HtH is a pre requisite to 40k because it's a 'phase'

My biggest thing against Tau is its hard to use their range to your advantage. Outside of Drop Pods, most targets are always in range because Tau guns are on average 36". Necrons are insanely tough to kill, but most of their stuff is limited to 24"

What else do we have?

Necrons have 5+++ permanently.
Eldar have Pseudo rending and run shoot.

Tau fold in combat like no other race in the game. But we're a shooting army.
We should have good guns.

Most necron armies have a 4+++ permanently, with rerolling 1's within 12 inches of overlord lol

**Boniface**

notredameguy10 wrote:
Boniface wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Boniface wrote:
We Tau players just have to accept that Tau are just a hated race. It's all because we don't want to get into HtH at all.
All other races do.

If we constantly advanced and shot, then assaulted we wouldn't be hated anywhere near as much. It's the reason Eldar and Necrons (both of who are far more OP) are allowed to be.

It's like HtH is a pre requisite to 40k because it's a 'phase'

My biggest thing against Tau is its hard to use their range to your advantage. Outside of Drop Pods, most targets are always in range because Tau guns are on average 36". Necrons are insanely tough to kill, but most of their stuff is limited to 24"

What else do we have?

Necrons have 5+++ permanently.
Eldar have Pseudo rending and run shoot.

Tau fold in combat like no other race in the game. But we're a shooting army.
We should have good guns.

Most necron armies have a 4+++ permanently, with rerolling 1's within 12 inches of overlord lol

Well I was ignoring that.
My point was people complain about Tau weapons, but Tau are a shooting army with no access to HtH.
They are the single most complained about army in the game.

Compared to Eldar having all manner of ridiculous stuff.
Necrons having loads of powerful stuff and being very resilient.
Guard having walls of tanks
Marines having AP2 salvo 3 guns on bikes.
Daemons having the ability to summon potentially limitless models.

What do Tau really have?
Slightly longer ranger standard guns
Markerlights (not new but improved)
The riptide (which is a bit more powerful than its cost, but was a new model so had to be all powerful)
Other than these what is so special about them?

**Martel732**

"They are the single most complained about army in the game. "

That's absolutely false. Eldar have been the #1 hated on army since their 6th ed codex.

The Riptide is very much OP, not just "a bit" more powerful than its cost. But the rest of the list is very manageable, especially compared to Eldar or Gravstar.

**A Town Called Malus**

Martel732 wrote:
"They are the single most complained about army in the game. "

That's absolutely false. Eldar have been the #1 hated on army since their 6th ed codex.

The Riptide is very much OP, not just "a bit" more powerful than its cost. But the rest of the list is very manageable, especially compared to Eldar or Gravstar.

Riptide is only OP because the Ion Accelerator is way too cheap. Without the Ion Accelerator it's still tough but has nowhere near the lethality when it can't drop AP2 pie plates.

**Martel732**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
"They are the single most complained about army in the game. "

That's absolutely false. Eldar have been the #1 hated on army since their 6th ed codex.

The Riptide is very much OP, not just "a bit" more powerful than its cost. But the rest of the list is very manageable, especially compared to Eldar or Gravstar.

Riptide is only OP because the Ion Accelerator is way too cheap. Without the Ion Accelerator it's still tough but has nowhere near the lethality when it can't drop AP2 pie plates.

The Riptide chassis is too durable for its cost/effective range. The thing never gets close, which means 80% of the weapons that can hurt it can't reach. It's basically immortal in about half the games it participates in. The brokeness of the ion accelerator stacks on top of the chassis being broken to begin with.

It's anecdotal but logical: I've killed well over 20 dreadknights since the GK codex came out. I've killed about 3 Riptides, despite playing Tau many more times. They. Don't. Die.

**TheKbob**

When I last played the game in 6E, Tau were a newb stomper army, but otherwise a fairly middle-tier army that usually needed allies to cover up bad match-ups. I don't really see an issue with them unless there's something in 7E that I'm missing so heinously that is makes them overpowered.

**Martel732**

TheKbob wrote:
When I last played the game in 6E, Tau were a newb stomper army, but otherwise a fairly middle-tier army that usually needed allies to cover up bad match-ups. I don't really see an issue with them unless there's something in 7E that I'm missing so heinously that is makes them overpowered.

It's just annoying having to play AROUND Riptides, since there is no efficient way to engage them at 60".

**TheKbob**

Martel732 wrote:
TheKbob wrote:
When I last played the game in 6E, Tau were a newb stomper army, but otherwise a fairly middle-tier army that usually needed allies to cover up bad match-ups. I don't really see an issue with them unless there's something in 7E that I'm missing so heinously that is makes them overpowered.

It's just annoying having to play AROUND Riptides, since there is no efficient way to engage them at 60".

Yea, I see that. I'm sure every army has a means of stopping it or doing damage to them. They're tough, but they're firepower was never "OMG" to me. I took them down with my SoB/Inq/IG army I had in 6E, but then again Exorcists scare them real bad.

**Martel732**

There's literally not a thing in the BA codex that Riptides care about. They can outshoot/outrun every unit in the book.

**Vector Strike**

I've seen people complaining more about Tau's fluff than mechanics.

"They don't belong to the scenario!"
"They're anime fan communists!"
"They're too nice! I want muh grimderp!"

Spoiler:

**Martel732**

Vector Strike wrote:
I've seen people complaining more about Tau's fluff than mechanics.

"They don't belong to the scenario!"
"They're anime fan communists!"
"They're too nice! I want muh grimderp!"

The fluff is fine. In fact, I like their fluff better than the IoM. As in Imperium of Morons. There is no way they would have lasted from 30K to 40K set up as they are portrayed.

**TheKbob**

Martel732 wrote:
There's literally not a thing in the BA codex that Riptides care about. They can outshoot/outrun every unit in the book.

Bloodstrike missiles. Deep striking, combat squad melta/plasma teams. Allies, allies everywhere...

The game is broken if you mono-dex (save the broken dexes). So you either live with that or you keep losing to Tau, I suppose. Get some SoB. Scouting Meltaguns and Exorcists will make the Tau player think twice.

**Martel732**

TheKbob wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
There's literally not a thing in the BA codex that Riptides care about. They can outshoot/outrun every unit in the book.

Bloodstrike missiles. Deep striking, combat squad melta/plasma teams. Allies, allies everywhere...

The game is broken if you mono-dex (save the broken dexes). So you either live with that or you keep losing to Tau, I suppose. Get some SoB. Scouting Meltaguns and Exorcists will make the Tau player think twice.

The game being broken for mono-dex is an excellent argument for not playing at all.

For the record, the BA can't bring any of those weapons systems in sufficient quantity to mathematically threaten a Riptide. AT least, not without tailoring.