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Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Give me an IoM unit that you consider OP. Let's see how many we agree on. I'll give you gravstars for free. I'm not some IoM homer. In fact, I really hate the Astartes at this point. The whole concept is pretty stupid.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/19 00:48:35


 
   
Made in au
Ancient Chaos Terminator





'Straya... Mate.

 gmaleron wrote:
 Rippy wrote:
 gmaleron wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I love watching Tau players try to justify their OP units.


Like I enjoy watching everyone else cry about while ignoring there OP units.

I thought you said Riptide wasn't OP though?


It isnt, however plenty of people have an opinion that it is, just like other people have opinions that IoM units are OP and likewise they are defended that they are not.

We are not talking about other factions OP units. We are talking about your denial of an obviously OP unit.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Just because I do not feel the Riptide is OP does not make me "in denial" as you so claim. Where I am not trying to force my opinion down your throat you are attempting to do the same and its coming off really childish. I can agree the Riptide is strong and a good unit but it is nowhere near the levels of "OP" as you so claim.

And to be honest I dont look at an army and say "that unit is OP" because I feel that everyone has a right to play the game the way they want to and as long as you are skilled with your own army you have a way to counter it, maybe not effectively as you want but thats the game of 40k today, its rock paper scissors. That being said I only ever ask if they are bringing something Competitive or Fluffy so I can build a list accordingly to have the most fun with my opponent. The Adamantium Lance formation for Imperial Knights is rather strong for one but I wont call it OP, just means I have to find a way to deal with it to the best I can if I come across it.





This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/19 01:07:28


19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 gmaleron wrote:
Just because I do not feel the Riptide is OP does not make me "in denial" as you so claim. Where I am not trying to force my opinion down your throat you are attempting to do the same and its coming off really childish. I can agree the Riptide is strong and a good unit but it is nowhere near the levels of "OP" as you so claim.

And to be honest I dont look at an army and say "that unit is OP" because I feel that everyone has a right to play the game the way they want to. That being said I only ever ask if they are bringing something Competitive or Fluffy so I can build a list accordingly to have the most fun with my opponent. The Adamantium Lance formation for Imperial Knights is rather strong for one but I wont call it OP, just means I have to find a way to deal with it to the best I can if I come across it.





I don't know why people like crushing others who have been victimized by GW's carelessness. I have BLIND opponents. I don't get a discussion.
   
Made in br
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

Guys, we've been doing this dance a long time ago. No side will give in to the other one. Can we call it a day and move on? This kind of thread serve no purpose but to circular arguments.

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in au
Ancient Chaos Terminator





'Straya... Mate.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, we've been doing this dance a long time ago. No side will give in to the other one. Can we call it a day and move on? This kind of thread serve no purpose but to circular arguments.

No one made you open this thread. Just dont go in to it.

 
   
Made in ca
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer




We all know the XV104,XV107, and XV109, all laugh are your feeble attempts to overcome them.

10k+ Tau, Ke'lshan
10k Dark Eldar Kabal of the Flayed skull
1k Scions
 
   
Made in au
Ancient Chaos Terminator





'Straya... Mate.

NauticalKendall wrote:
We all know the XV104,XV107, and XV109, all laugh are your feeble attempts to overcome them.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

I like the Tau just the way they are. I also have no problem with the Riptide both as a player and as an opponent. I just have a hard time finding something to hate about a model that expensive that is only going to shoot one pie plate a turn. Especially since buffmanders can no longer help them and once all the markerlights are removed its no more dangerous than anything armed with a battle cannon pump out and heck you can field a hell of a lot more battle cannons for the same point cost.

I have found that a Riptides biggest advantage is the fear factor. People get so unnerved by them that their very presense invokes a lot more bad target choices than would otherwise be present.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 06:12:35


See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in gb
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




Sure Riptides are good but OP? No way. How can they be considered OP with the IoM cherry picking of today, the meta-changing Skitarii, the entire GK codex , Eldar, Necrons, Daemons, Imperial Knights, ForgeWorld and formations?

Evidence of this is that Blood Angels (an army that some may consider to be 'bad') comes in at an average higher position at tournaments than Tau... So tell me again how the Riptide is OP?

Riptides need support to be powerful, otherwise they're just a good unit, unlike Dreadknights who need no support as they can do anything and everything themselves.

With support they're good. But guess what? So are IoM units such as an invisible Dreadknight with prescience and a 4++... But that's totally fine because it's IoM, right?... Right?

Anyway, there's one OP unit among the Tau and their Battle Bothers. How many are there for other armies?
Daemons have Nurgle Princes with the Black Mace, they have Be'lakor, they have summoning spam, they have screamer star and they have hounds.
IoM have Draigo, Tiggy, Centurions, Drop Pods, Imperial Knights, Dreadknights, tonnes of Forge World cheese.


   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Watford, England

You know what I might conceed the point here. I think the Riptide is a tough son of a bitch.

And looking at options it isn't easy to counter without spending more than double the number of points.

I hardly think it's the worse offender in the game but it's more challenging because of its range.

I don't think it's infallible though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
Riptides will be one of the few things that scatter bikes will have a hard time killing. Of course, everything else will die miserably. But at least they'll always have their Riptides.


On this. I'm curious to see how one holds up.

Let's assume a 10 man squad 270 points.
40 shots.
26.4 hit
13.2 wound
10.96 saves
So 2-3 wounds taken on average
If the riptide has FNP it might save another 0.38 wounds.

I think the math is right but feel free to correct me.

I think I'd use shuriken jetbikes personally
30 shots
20 hit
10 wound, 1-2 will be rending
6-7 saves in 2+ = 1-2 wounds
1 save on 5++ maybe
3 wounds


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I take it all back. A Riptide isn't OP. Eldar have the monopoly on that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/19 11:15:18


 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





Desperado Corp.

 gmaleron wrote:
 liquidjoshi wrote:
The Riptide is OP. Far too cheap for far too durable a chassis. An Overcharged IA shot is objectively better than most other weapons in the same category. (Relatively) cheap access to Interceptor and toggleable skyfire. Its only real downside is BS3, which is easily mitigated by proper markerlight support. The model itself can see over most LOS blocking terrain, unless you go out of your way to make terrain tall enough.

Lack of CC ability shouldn't matter because thrust moves exist, as well as a 60" range gun.

Love, a Tau and FSE player.

Edit: "so you can have an easy win"
>Projecting


*Broken logic about Dreadknights being OP. Utterly laughable.*

And hate to break it to you buddy, just because I play FSE does not mean I am looking for an "easy win" as you so claim. If I wanted an easy win I would play Space Marine + Imperial Knight ally cheese or one of the many other silly combinations that they can pull off (Skitarri in Drop Pods for example will be SO much fun). Keep on being a hypocrite i am well used to IoM bias



>mfw I don't play IoM

Nice, resorting to personal attacks because you know you can't win the argument. That means the 'Tide's still OP and I win, right? Cool.

Though at this stage, I think we need tiers of OP: Balanced, OP, Eldar.

Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 liquidjoshi wrote:
 gmaleron wrote:
 liquidjoshi wrote:
The Riptide is OP. Far too cheap for far too durable a chassis. An Overcharged IA shot is objectively better than most other weapons in the same category. (Relatively) cheap access to Interceptor and toggleable skyfire. Its only real downside is BS3, which is easily mitigated by proper markerlight support. The model itself can see over most LOS blocking terrain, unless you go out of your way to make terrain tall enough.
Lack of CC ability shouldn't matter because thrust moves exist, as well as a 60" range gun.
Love, a Tau and FSE player.
Edit: "so you can have an easy win"
>Projecting

*Broken logic about Dreadknights being OP. Utterly laughable.*
And hate to break it to you buddy, just because I play FSE does not mean I am looking for an "easy win" as you so claim. If I wanted an easy win I would play Space Marine + Imperial Knight ally cheese or one of the many other silly combinations that they can pull off (Skitarri in Drop Pods for example will be SO much fun). Keep on being a hypocrite i am well used to IoM bias

>mfw I don't play IoM
Nice, resorting to personal attacks because you know you can't win the argument. That means the 'Tide's still OP and I win, right? Cool.
Though at this stage, I think we need tiers of OP: Balanced, OP, Eldar.


Aw cute you had to edit my post because you couldn't bear to see that I was listing the facts , hmm interesting. And I didn't personally attack anyone, I pointed out your behavior why are you getting so sensitive about the subject? And wow "I win" really mature, your logic is astounding especially since you present no argument and your counter to mine was to hide what I wrote and leave a snarky comment? Only thing broken is your idea of whats OP in this game and if anything is laughable that is, keep on raging!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/19 13:10:55


19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





Desperado Corp.

 gmaleron wrote:
 liquidjoshi wrote:
 gmaleron wrote:
 liquidjoshi wrote:
The Riptide is OP. Far too cheap for far too durable a chassis. An Overcharged IA shot is objectively better than most other weapons in the same category. (Relatively) cheap access to Interceptor and toggleable skyfire. Its only real downside is BS3, which is easily mitigated by proper markerlight support. The model itself can see over most LOS blocking terrain, unless you go out of your way to make terrain tall enough.
Lack of CC ability shouldn't matter because thrust moves exist, as well as a 60" range gun.
Love, a Tau and FSE player.
Edit: "so you can have an easy win"
>Projecting

*Broken logic about Dreadknights being OP. Utterly laughable.*
And hate to break it to you buddy, just because I play FSE does not mean I am looking for an "easy win" as you so claim. If I wanted an easy win I would play Space Marine + Imperial Knight ally cheese or one of the many other silly combinations that they can pull off (Skitarri in Drop Pods for example will be SO much fun). Keep on being a hypocrite i am well used to IoM bias

>mfw I don't play IoM
Nice, resorting to personal attacks because you know you can't win the argument. That means the 'Tide's still OP and I win, right? Cool.
Though at this stage, I think we need tiers of OP: Balanced, OP, Eldar.


Aw cute you had to edit my post because you couldn't bear to see that I was listing the facts , hmm interesting. And I didn't personally attack anyone, I pointed out your behavior why are you getting so sensitive about the subject? And wow "I win" really mature, your logic is astounding especially since you present no argument and your counter to mine was to hide what I wrote and leave a snarky comment? Only thing broken is your idea of whats OP in this game and if anything is laughable that is, keep on raging!





Your facts are not facts.

Those feels when you have to state: "Your opinion is not fact. Your opinion is also wrong".

Edit: #PROJECTING

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 15:04:28


Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice. 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Fact: there is nothing in the BA codex that is remotely as durable as the Riptide, at any price point.

Fact: The BA have no cost effective way to engage a Riptide outside of 18".

Fact: The Riptide functions at full effectiveness at ranges much greater than 18".

These are what I'm basing my analysis upon.
   
Made in jp
Trustworthy Shas'vre




Martel732 wrote:
Fact: there is nothing in the BA codex that is remotely as durable as the Riptide, at any price point.

Fact: The BA have no cost effective way to engage a Riptide outside of 18".

Fact: The Riptide functions at full effectiveness at ranges much greater than 18".

These are what I'm basing my analysis upon.


Fact: The Blood Angels are one of the best armies for getting inside of 18" on the first turn of the game.

Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Jefffar wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Fact: there is nothing in the BA codex that is remotely as durable as the Riptide, at any price point.

Fact: The BA have no cost effective way to engage a Riptide outside of 18".

Fact: The Riptide functions at full effectiveness at ranges much greater than 18".

These are what I'm basing my analysis upon.


Fact: The Blood Angels are one of the best armies for getting inside of 18" on the first turn of the game.


That's less useful than it first seems when your opponent examines you list and makes appropriate preparations. The BA efficacy as a drop list in a TAC environment is not that high.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

Reading this thread I have to ask a question; what sort of win percentages do you want and get versus tau?

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in gb
Disbeliever of the Greater Good




Kent

The Orkimedes force field generator in the Ghazgkull supplement can cause real problems when used in conjunction with masses of Boyz with painboyz attached. 2/3 mobs of Boyz with a 4++/5+FNP can be a real pain to stop (no pun intended!)

A 6" bubble doesn't seem large but I'm always surprised by how many Orks my friend seems to pack in there!
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 carldooley wrote:
Reading this thread I have to ask a question; what sort of win percentages do you want and get versus tau?



I want about 50% and I'd say I get about 30% with my TAC BA list.
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

What sort of tau armies are you facing? I have a mobile tau army (not the best army, but a lot if fun), and my total win rate hovers just over 50%.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Most tri-Riptide with Broadsides. I know my "issue" is that my standard list only has one podded unit. However, I don't think BA drop pod is a very good TAC list.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What sort of tau armies are you facing? I have a mobile tau army (not the best army, but a lot if fun), and my total win rate hovers just over 50%.


I can tell you that I have a TFE force of similar composition, and my win ratio is 0%. but then I've only played one game with them (maelstrom) and lost by one point. but a loss is a loss. I wouldn't mind playing more games but getting together around my work schedule is a special kind of difficult.

I asked the above question because I was wondering who had unrealistic expectations when it comes to winning their games. something close to 50% is preferred because it ensures that the losing side tends to stay with the hobby rather than ragequitting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 23:11:57


'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

Martel732 wrote:
Most tri-Riptide with Broadsides. I know my "issue" is that my standard list only has one podded unit. However, I don't think BA drop pod is a very good TAC list.


From what we've heard before about your meta in other threads is that you also don't have a lot of large LOS blocking terrain (as the shooty players don't like it, for reasons of they want an easy win) which also doesn't help.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




It shouldn't preclude me from doing well.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

you folks do realize that the drop pod can function as LOS blocking terrain?

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 carldooley wrote:
you folks do realize that the drop pod can function as LOS blocking terrain?


No, it can't. You can see through it. It's a 5+ save only. Worthless to marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 00:13:38


 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

Only if you open the doors. And lots of the guys I play with painted the doors shut (probably on purpose.).

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

Martel732 wrote:
 carldooley wrote:
you folks do realize that the drop pod can function as LOS blocking terrain?


No, it can't. You can see through it. It's a 5+ save only. Worthless to marines.


We can fire through models now? (eyes alight!)
seriously though, I must have missed any section of the rules that say that. I don't suppose that you could clue me in on where those rules are?

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




True LOS. I never thought to not open the doors on the model. That seems illegal to me, but I guess not. I'm not that desperate for LOS blockers. I'd rather not play than model for advantage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 00:34:44


 
   
 
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