Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play. Operation Pitchfork.

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**Vaktathi**

Martel732 wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
I mean, competitively built 5E mech IG versus average joe non-vulkan SM's? Sure, super terrifying. But any non-mech IG army wasn't scaring anyone either

That's all I was trying to point out. Now imagine regular lists against this Eldar codex. It's the same thing, but even worse.

Sure I can get on board with that.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
I mean, competitively built 5E mech IG versus average joe non-vulkan SM's? Sure, super terrifying. But any non-mech IG army wasn't scaring anyone either

That's all I was trying to point out. Now imagine regular lists against this Eldar codex. It's the same thing, but even worse.

Go a step further - the competitive lists people are tailoring to beat the proposed Eldar power lists aren't really holding much of a candle.

In 5th, the power armies all stood a chance against one another. Even Chaos stood a pretty good chance with double Lash sorcerers. Dash of Pepper was routinely beating faces with Orks and the old phase out Necrons. It wasn't balanced but it was the most balanced edition to date.

Maybe system restoring 40k to 5th edition isn't the best answer, but it's a better answer than playing 7th edition. The fact is that people aren't just complaining about 40k because the game is far less balanced, they're complaining because it's a completely different game - one that a lot of people have a declining desire to play.

In the end, money talks. I built 3 armies over the course of 5th edition, and an honest cost estimate would be around $5000. Between 6th and 7 I've spent literally nothing because the game is fething garbage and I'd rather spend $5000 on a luxury watch or a bunch of guns than plastic men for a cracked out rule set that gets worse with every release.

Yeah, this mirrors my feeling pretty well. Even in 5th, with the Chaos book many of us absolutely despised, I won most of my games and several tournaments with my non-lash CSM's and I even won games with my psyker-less Eldar in 5th (reserve denial Autarch build

)

Since 5th however, I've bought far less 40k stuff, and what I did buy was almost all of it 2nd hand, and instead getting into other games like Infinity, Heavy Gear, and Firestorm Armada (also putting most of it into guns, Bulgarian AK's aren't cheap)

Play experiences likewise are less consistent. Fewer "regulars", local events are averaging 8-12 players instead of ~20, and a lot more games being conceded early.

**Corporal_Chaos**

This is a joke right? Your really this uptight about a game! LMFAO diaper change......

**Manchu**

Guys, please keep discussion polite per Rule Number One. Thanks.

**Happyjew**

As long as we're banning Eldar for being able to take Scatterbikes, can we also ban Necrons for their crazy survivability? Oh we should also ban Nids because of the ability to take 5+ Flyrants in a bound list using two detachments. Grey Knights should be banned due to their psychic shenanigans and 2+ armour, and Daemons should be banned due to their 5++ and psychic shenanigans. Let's also ban Tau due to Markerlights and Riptides.

In fact I got the perfect idea. All tournaments only allow Space Marines. You must use the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics.

**Quickjager**

A look a Eldar player using hyperbole, JUST after someone was accusing us (non-Eldar) of doing so.

**A Town Called Malus**

Just out of curiosity but how many of those ultra OP things Happy just said could reliably beat scatterbike spam with Strength D backup and psychic shenanigans?

**Quickjager**

None really... he didn't even go for the heart w/ a 2++re-rerollable screamerstar.

**Happyjew**

Quickjager wrote:
A look a Eldar player using hyperbole, JUST after someone was accusing us (non-Eldar) of doing so.

Correction. An Eldar player who runs a fluffy Ulthwe list.

Or do you think that a Farseer, Warlocks, Guardian squads with Bright Lances, a Crimson Hunter, 3 Warwalkers, an Artillery Battery and a Nightspinner is broken?

**krodarklorr**

Happyjew wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
A look a Eldar player using hyperbole, JUST after someone was accusing us (non-Eldar) of doing so.

Correction. An Eldar player who runs a fluffy Ulthwe list.

Or do you think that a Farseer, Warlocks, Guardian squads with Bright Lances, a Crimson Hunter, 3 Warwalkers, an Artillery Battery and a Nightspinner is broken?

Honestly, I wanted to start playing Eldar mainly because of Ulthwe. Love the paint scheme, I wanted the challenge of beating people using a lot of Guardians. However, I can't put my hands on that book without feeling I need a shower.

**Quickjager**

Happyjew wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
A look a Eldar player using hyperbole, JUST after someone was accusing us (non-Eldar) of doing so.

Correction. An Eldar player who runs a fluffy Ulthwe list.

Or do you think that a Farseer, Warlocks, Guardian squads with Bright Lances, a Crimson Hunter, 3 Warwalkers, an Artillery Battery and a Nightspinner is broken?

Really? Because I see a Eldar jetbike w/ cannon in your gallery

guess the Eldar really do have the power of foresight.

**Happyjew**

Yes, from before the 6th edition codex came out, and one model could take a shuri-cannon.

I also have squads of all the Aspects from when I ran Swordwind.

I tried Swordwind with the 6th ed codex, didn't care for it, and have been running foot-slogging Ulthwe since.

However, if the new codex allows Windriders to take a shuri-pistol...than you can accuse me of Foresight.

**bigyounk**

I'll one up all of you. I stopped playing GW games over a year ago and it is glorious. Now I look at people playing 40K & WHFB at my FLGS and snicker as they are still drinking the kool-aid. GW games are terrible and pretty much always have been. There are numerous other choices now and one and all they are superior to GW rules and gameplay. The only edge GW has is in its models and variety of paint. These 2 areas are being eaten away as well, numerous companies produce figs as good as GW's now but not on their scale and other paints are superior in quality if not quantity.

My 2 cents to everyone is ditch your GW products while people are still dumb enough to buy your old armies and evolve as a gamer to better systems.

Have a good day all, I am.

**Grimskul**

bigyounk wrote:
I'll one up all of you. I stopped playing GW games over a year ago and it is glorious. Now I look at people playing 40K & WHFB at my FLGS and snicker as they are still drinking the kool-aid. GW games are terrible and pretty much always have been. There are numerous other choices now and one and all they are superior to GW rules and gameplay. The only edge GW has is in its models and variety of paint. These 2 areas are being eaten away as well, numerous companies produce figs as good as GW's now but not on their scale and other paints are superior in quality if not quantity.

My 2 cents to everyone is ditch your GW products while people are still dumb enough to buy your old armies and evolve as a gamer to better systems.

Have a good day all, I am.

Congrats? I understand you have a need to show how well off you are without playing GW, but your personal choice not to play 40K at all has little to do with handling Eldar specifically.

**bigyounk**

Grimskul wrote:
bigyounk wrote:
I'll one up all of you. I stopped playing GW games over a year ago and it is glorious. Now I look at people playing 40K & WHFB at my FLGS and snicker as they are still drinking the kool-aid. GW games are terrible and pretty much always have been. There are numerous other choices now and one and all they are superior to GW rules and gameplay. The only edge GW has is in its models and variety of paint. These 2 areas are being eaten away as well, numerous companies produce figs as good as GW's now but not on their scale and other paints are superior in quality if not quantity.

My 2 cents to everyone is ditch your GW products while people are still dumb enough to buy your old armies and evolve as a gamer to better systems.

Have a good day all, I am.

Congrats? I understand you have a need to show how well off you are without playing GW, but your personal choice not to play 40K at all has little to do with handling Eldar specifically.

I disagree. The OP wanted to stick it to GW so to speak by refusing to play Eldar. I take that to the logical next step. Eldar is just a small part of a larger problem, GW itself. I say stick it to GW by not playing any GW game at all. Money talks, not all this internet hate on this army or that one. Stop feeding the corporate asshats at GW and they will listen or go away. (I prefer the later btw)

**Melissia**

extremefreak17 wrote:
So why didn't we ban Guard, GK, and Wolves back then?

Many people wanted to, or especially ban specific units. That's always been a problem. Hell, I remember people wanting to ban flyrants sitll...

**krodarklorr**

Melissia wrote:
extremefreak17 wrote:
So why didn't we ban Guard, GK, and Wolves back then?
Many people wanted to, or especially ban specific units. That's always been a problem. Hell, I remember people wanting to ban flyrants sitll...

Hey, if it's any consolation, I play Nids and I'd ban Flyrants. Mainly because of the sheer "auto-include" nature of them.

**yellowfever**

The only thing I've always disliked is any army that can expand itself past the agreed point limit. Say we playing 2000 points. Daemons go first and spawn 200 extra points worth.

Now it's my turn and I got my 2000 points against your 2200 points. It may get worse or maybe I'll kill more/ you won't spawn as much. But the point is the army can break the agreed point limit. Or stick around better.

**Plumbumbarum**

In the end it's nothing that a little faq cant fix:

SM get ++ instead of + ie 3++ tacticals. Or rending bolters. Or both.

Chaos same.

IG get s2 ap2 lasguns.

Sisters get ap3 flamers and ap2 heavy flamers.

Orks get WAAGH that gives +2 attacks, double the shots.

Nids get all cover restrictions on cc dropped and can shoot into cc.

Daemons get all the deepstrike fun back.

Tau get fleet.

etc.

All quick fixes and could require a bit of balancing heh.

**Jimsolo**

Plumbumbarum wrote:
In the end it's nothing that a little faq cant fix:

SM get ++ instead of + ie 3++ tacticals. Or rending bolters. Or both.

Chaos same.

IG get s2 ap2 lasguns.

Sisters get ap3 flamers and ap2 heavy flamers.

Orks get WAAGH that gives +2 attacks, double the shots.

Nids get all cover restrictions on cc dropped and can shoot into cc.

Daemons get all the deepstrike fun back.

Tau get fleet.

etc.

All quick fixes and could require a bit of balancing heh.

Lol, leaving Dark Eldar as categorically the worst army in the game.

**Korona**

Jimsolo wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:
In the end it's nothing that a little faq cant fix:

SM get ++ instead of + ie 3++ tacticals. Or rending bolters. Or both.

Chaos same.

IG get s2 ap2 lasguns.

Sisters get ap3 flamers and ap2 heavy flamers.

Orks get WAAGH that gives +2 attacks, double the shots.

Nids get all cover restrictions on cc dropped and can shoot into cc.

Daemons get all the deepstrike fun back.

Tau get fleet.

etc.

All quick fixes and could require a bit of balancing heh.

Lol, leaving Dark Eldar as categorically the worst army in the game.

DE are easy to fix - you make their cover saves invulnerable.

**Crimson Devil**

Jimsolo wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:
In the end it's nothing that a little faq cant fix:

SM get ++ instead of + ie 3++ tacticals. Or rending bolters. Or both.

Chaos same.

IG get s2 ap2 lasguns.

Sisters get ap3 flamers and ap2 heavy flamers.

Orks get WAAGH that gives +2 attacks, double the shots.

Nids get all cover restrictions on cc dropped and can shoot into cc.

Daemons get all the deepstrike fun back.

Tau get fleet.

etc.

All quick fixes and could require a bit of balancing heh.

Lol, leaving Dark Eldar as categorically the worst army in the game.

We can't have that! That spot is reserved for the Sisters of Battle!

**Torga_DW**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
j_p_chess wrote:
Can we wait two months after the codex comes out to make a judgement. This is like people loosing their minds about the new star wars movie.

So it's a perfectly sensible thing to do? Han Solo and Millenium Falcon WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

star wars episode 7: bernie madoff strikes back
After the galactic rebellion overthrew the evil sith empire,
peace was restored to the galaxy.
But then the evil bernie madoff saw his chance
and made off with the hero's fortunes.

Now, forced back into work by a lack of money
and hounded by galactic bounty hunters,
Our heroes once again must risk their lives
in pursuit of peace, justice and the money
needed to fund their lifestyles....

<<pan to IRS star cruiser firing upon han solo's millenium falcon>>

**Pyeatt**

We should also ban Space Marines, Tau, all Chaos, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, and anyone else I missed

**Rippy**

Pyeatt wrote:
We should also ban Space Marines, Tau, all Chaos, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, and anyone else I missed

I disagree, their codices are not terrible overpowered like the new Eldar one.

**Pyeatt**

When eldar are removed, we should ban the next strongest codex. Continue until we all go to card games

**Rippy**

Pyeatt wrote:
When eldar are removed, we should ban the next strongest codex. Continue until we all go to card games

I disagree, the next most powerful codex isn't stupidy over powered.

**Accolade**

Pyeatt wrote:
When eldar are removed, we should ban the next strongest codex. Continue until we all go to card games

Thanks for the good old reducto ad absurdum, helps demonstrate that you're being purposely obtuse about people's issues.

**Pyeatt**

It's an article titled Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play.

Who failed at logic first?

**Accolade**

That has nothing to do with the fact that your argument is literally reducto ad absurdum. You can try to point fingers at others for their issues (which their certainly are), but your point isn't any better.

And to be clear, I'm not even really a fan of the banning of Eldar from competitive play, I just think if your goal is to troll these threads (absurd as they are) instead of providing constructive criticism, you should probably go do something else.

**Rippy**

Pyeatt wrote:
It's an article titled Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play.

Who failed at logic first?

Just because you disagree with it, doesn't mean there is no logic.