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Play a daemons detachment and make them heralds?

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Oh well, i guess ill buy them then..
Cant believe i still want to buy and paint them...
Im games workshops golden consumer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you think of some ways to use them?

I guess they will be like firemagnets unless i can let them come as melee finishers, and use some other cheap squad to start the bloodcrushing.

What units are good firemagnets for daemonkin? As in cheap and durable and people will actually prioritise shooting them?

I"m new to this as well mind but there seems to be some heavy debate between Soul Grinders which are slow but deep strike and AV13 or Maulerfiends which are brilliantly fast and AV12 Personally I'm leaning towards AV12 Maulerfiends. Put them on the front line x3 and wow thats an insane charge.

There is no debate that flesh hounds are great btw. Bloodletters being mandatory are also cheap.


But at present I'm thinking my list will look like 3x Maulerfiends, a couple of rhinos and some flesh hounds for a first turn in your face mass pile in charge. Lord on a juggernaut to go with the Flesh hounds....might be to squishy not sure. Mandatory possessed will go in one rhino.

I figure I've got about 700-800 points to buy and paint worry about the rest later.

Well done doomarn !

I'm wondering if massed Bloodletter DS w/ Icons etc would be worthwhile?

Not for uber-competitive tournaments but just to be solid at casual games.

I'm thinking if nothing else they can eat some wounds and distract from the wave of flesh hounds roaring up the table

I've been messing around with the lists a lot today, and I'm intrigued at a lot of the possibilities. My biggest hangup is how to deal with massed vehicles/armor. What are people thinking for Tau and Eldar opponents. You can't really give anyone in the army power fists, which makes tanks a bit trickier IMHO. Thoughts?

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:
I've been messing around with the lists a lot today, and I'm intrigued at a lot of the possibilities. My biggest hangup is how to deal with massed vehicles/armor. What are people thinking for Tau and Eldar opponents. You can't really give anyone in the army power fists, which makes tanks a bit trickier IMHO. Thoughts?

Take meltaguns. Raptors can take 2, CSM can take 2 if they have at least 10 men, bike squads can take 2 as well. Chaos termies can take powerfists and/or combi-meltas, but they are costly and if you're running a blood host you have to pay a tax of 2 bloodcrusher squads (not good...). Otherwise, maulerfiends w/magma cutters, helbrutes, and of course D-thirsters can wreck tanks reasonably well. Just my 2 cents.

You forget that you hit vehicles in the rear, only walkers fight with front armor. So you have to beat av10 against most vehicles. Magma cutters? When you have str 10 attacks on maulers, hounds will glance vehicles to death. They have str 5 on the charge so can take out vehicles with av 11 rear such as leman russ, ghost arcs etc.

Nm

Khorne Cultists are amazing against most vehicles - 4 Str4 attacks each on the charge makes them very likely to glance out any AV10 rear armour vehicle. The trouble is getting them into CC, however I've noticed alot of people tend to under-estimate those little Cultist squads. Flesh Hounds are also very good for the same reason - though they have 1 less attack on the charge, their 12" movement more than makes up for it.

It's only really AV13 walkers or Land Raiders you'll need to worry about. AV13 walkers are awkward to deal with since Krak Grenades can't hurt them in CC, and you'll need at least Str7 to glance them. Luckily there's plenty of places to take Melta and some of them are even fast moving (Bikes/Raptors).

Cultists are str 3 and has rage, countercharge, not furious charge. But with 2 tithe pts you can give them furious.

doomarn wrote:
Cultists are str 3 and has rage, countercharge, not furious charge. But with 2 tithe pts you can give them furious.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that you give them the Rage/Furious Charge reward to make them S4. Particularly effective in a Slaughtercult since you can get that reward for free.

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:
I've been messing around with the lists a lot today, and I'm intrigued at a lot of the possibilities. My biggest hangup is how to deal with massed vehicles/armor. What are people thinking for Tau and Eldar opponents. You can't really give anyone in the army power fists, which makes tanks a bit trickier IMHO. Thoughts?

Raptors or Warp Talons with Melta? Maulerfiends also are pretty good at this assuming they live.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:
I've been messing around with the lists a lot today, and I'm intrigued at a lot of the possibilities. My biggest hangup is how to deal with massed vehicles/armor. What are people thinking for Tau and Eldar opponents. You can't really give anyone in the army power fists, which makes tanks a bit trickier IMHO. Thoughts?

Raptors or Warp Talons with Melta? Maulerfiends also are pretty good at this assuming they live.

Yeah I suppose this is the obvious answer. I've just had very little luck with the my Raptors with my Night Lords list. I suppose that since a metric ton of stuff is going to be appearing via deep strike, they are probably a lot less likely to get shot to hell in the turn they deep strike.

I'm also thinking about the Chaos Giant Spined Beas in place of Maulers. 4 wounds, T6, means it's not getting insta killed, MC will give it +1 to it's anti-armor roll, and a base of STR 7 means that it should be able to shred just about any tank. Plus the fact that they are deep striking demons gives only 1 turn for them to get shot at before the pain starts to flow.

Most importantly, I found some pretty sweet models that fit the fluff of what I'm thinking

No fw allowed where I live so cant say much about it. There are many ways to take down vehicles and it will be 90% in cc using demonkin.

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:
I've been messing around with the lists a lot today, and I'm intrigued at a lot of the possibilities. My biggest hangup is how to deal with massed vehicles/armor. What are people thinking for Tau and Eldar opponents. You can't really give anyone in the army power fists, which makes tanks a bit trickier IMHO. Thoughts?

Raptors or Warp Talons with Melta? Maulerfiends also are pretty good at this assuming they live.

Yeah I suppose this is the obvious answer. I've just had very little luck with the my Raptors with my Night Lords list. I suppose that since a metric ton of stuff is going to be appearing via deep strike, they are probably a lot less likely to get shot to hell in the turn they deep strike.

I'm also thinking about the Chaos Giant Spined Beas in place of Maulers. 4 wounds, T6, means it's not getting insta killed, MC will give it +1 to it's anti-armor roll, and a base of STR 7 means that it should be able to shred just about any tank. Plus the fact that they are deep striking demons gives only 1 turn for them to get shot at before the pain starts to flow.

Most importantly, I found some pretty sweet models that fit the fluff of what I'm thinking

That would have to be allied in though, its not in the allowed forgeworld lists I think? I did post a list earlier on but I'm not 100% without checking.

In terms of getting the Warp Talons to do what they need to do. Well there is craploads moving up the field but a smart player is going to take out your melta first anyway, they know the threats. Combine it with maulerfiends etc. though then the opponent can focus on one but there is a solid chance he'll lose it to the other.

Had another game today, this time against eldar. Omg they are tough, luckily i grabbed first turn so i was able to press 5 units of hounds + bikes in his face to give him hard choices. In his turn 1 he killed 4 hounds in 4 units with scatbikes and D-batteries. Wraithknight popped 1 grinder with D-shooting and wraithguards with flamers + 10 scatbikes killed 9 hounds in my 11 strong unit.. Talk about nasty shooting. I managed to get a draw after 6 turns, but the wk alone took out 1k pts of units with either shooting and cc. I managed to take 3 wounds from it total.

doomarn wrote:
Had a game last night, vs tyranids. I faced a skyblight list that had 4 flyrants, 3 mycolids, 3x10 gargoyles, 2 harpies, 2 crone, 1 pod with a dakkafex.
8 flyers was hard to take down, but i dominated the board taking maelstrom obj, helldrake and grinders + he doing perils took down 2 flyrants, 1 crone, 2 harpes. I won the game 15-5. Once again grinders showed that they are so much better than maulers being almost immune to his shooting, he tried to haywire them down but was to slow.

My regular tyrnanid opponent runs something similar to this and I have yet to win a game. There's simply way too many flying monstrous creatures for me to kill. I'm never lucky enough for him to perils on his flyrants. How are you getting these kills? I can't find any sky fire in the book and it's heartbreaking to have to rely on vector striking with my bloodthirsters who are wasted in the air.

I get ignoring them and racking up points but we play non maelstrom game types up here. I'm just confused how to actually kill flyers with this codex.

Grinders and drakes.

How are y'all running your grinders - torrent flamer or blast ?

I run grinders with phlegm.
The grinders have skyfire on its autocannon. 3 str 7 ap4 shots.

Does anyone take a sword on their Grinders? I just bought a kit, and I think it will look cooler with the sword, but in the codex it seems pricey for what you get.

The sword looks incredibly cool, but is way too pricey and not really useful.

So how viable is a bike heavy min troop list with daemonkin? I have wanted to try this with CSM for some time but it seems rather weak. A biker lord with Axe of Khorne leading a squad of 4+champ with IoW and 2x melta sound good? Maybe two min CSM squads with plasma and rhinos? Throw in a helldrake and have a decent 1000p list. What does Dakka think?

I think the gorepack gives great value for bikers. Move through cover , shred hammer of wrath and PE psykers.

Only tax is hounds which are great anyway.

Not sold on the axe of khorne as worth its points.

The trick is efficient troop choices to fill the CAD. Bloodletters are probably he best, DS them in.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:


They have to be allied in though, its not in the allowed forgeworld lists I think? I did post a list earlier on but I'm not 100% without checking.

I've seen them on yours and several lists. Seems to be primarily as a result of the fact that they can take the Mark of Khorne (for free no less).

The truly fun answer would be giant chaos spawn, since then they are only 80 points a model, but until FW does something more than 'MoK only' that sort of spam is just an evil pipe dream of mine.

Bikes are great as 3 with 2x melta. Cheap, expendable and if left alone can do some nice obj taking. I dont think making bigger units will be efficient since they cant take much more than those 2 melta anyway.
Flesh hounds is a better choice all day long.
The idea of a biker heavy chaos army is cool though but for competitive play it will not be any good.

I've only played 2 games with daemonkin but have seen some great things compared to CSM and some not so great. Beyond the obvious stuff some things that caught my eye were:

**Juggernaut points increase
**Terminator Champion options cost now the same as the rest of the termies, it sucks in CSM that you have to pay more for a combi-weapons, so the termicides here are nice
**Lack of Dirge Casters, if this is an all assault army why take them out?
**Land Raider not being able to get dozer blades, might not be as important, since not many people play LR but when you decide to give it a go and it gets stuck due to a 1 on your side of the table well... those 5 points on CSM at least gives a huge chance to avoid it
**As previously mentioned FnP is huge from the Blood Tithe and the slaughtercult being able to benefit from only the 1 & 2 results is terrible since more than half the units already have rage/FC, BUT, when your forces are getting thin down and you need to use you points for any summoning getting FNP on your marines/possesses/spawns/lord is awesome

Regarding the lists, I've been running a Slaugthercult + CAD. I know gorepack are the word but I really want to use my raptors I got 25 of them, and the raptor+warp talons formations isn't that good, so I stick to the CAD for fielding them.

My Chaos Lord from the Slaughtercult has a goredrinker, I'm completely against the Axe of Khorne, it is pretty expensive, and even thou the Ap2 at Initiative is great S4 that is also an specialist weapon, leave you with few attacks, that if facing a T5 model (and there are LOTS of them around) it makes it a waste of those points imho. I think that the best option is PF/LC for a jugger lord, however the goredrinker is pretty fluffy, and after a few wounds it is as good as the PF/LC combo. However a really important thing is that IF the lords gets in a tight spot, or is down to his las 1 o 2 wounds, you can give him daemonhood and the DP will now have axe, which removes the I1 penalty and as soon as he scores 1 wound you'll be a having a DP with S8 attacks, and probably rampage as well which will buff greatly its dmg potential.

The rest of the slaughtercult is pretty basic, 8 zerks, 10 CSM with meltas and possessed on rhino and the Maulferfiend for the Blood Host. The CAD runs the mandatory Herald Juggy with the Hatred Loci, 2 units of 8 cultists as troops, 2 units of 8 raptors with meltas, 15 hounds and a termicide with meltas/plasmas.

I used to field blood letters instead of the cultists but, if you aim to eventually field a DP or BT you need the mortal vessels, and if they are scattered all around the map the better, so... with the termicide you get to DS on enemy territory to use their combis, and whatever they do afterwards is a bonus, in the worst case scenario they'll give you 2 blood tithe points, if the champion is the last to survive it allows you to summon a BT on their back while your main force is probably already engaging the mid field in close combat, as well as the termies some cultists will allow you to summon daemons of even a BT out of the champion to defend your back.

I think dirge casters are considered to be a Slaanesh upgrade or something. If so, then it makes sense to not have them in the Khorne codex.

I played my first game with Daemonkin the other day (1000 point armies), but sadly we didn't get to finish since the store was getting ready to close, so we called it a draw. We forgot some rules and misinterpreted others (this was my opponent's first game of 40k against someone other than his friend that started learning the game with him), so I hardly can call it a game. My opponent was running Dark Angels using the contents of 2 DV starters with minor conversions. I was running a fluffy list using relatively tame units (decided mercifully to leave the heldrake at home lol). While the gameplay wasn't what it could have been had we been doing it right, it did show me just how powerful the Daemonkin codex is. Army-wide FnP is HUGE, and Possessed may be one of the most underrated units in the codex (They get so many attacks on the charge, especially if you get result 3 on their table like I did )! I look forward to my next tournament so I can see what this army can really do!

Hmmm how has goredrinker worked out for you, Lord Yayula?

Played a few sick games today, 750 points with a competitive list. It wrecked face. I find Kor'lath's axe to be a bit too slow to make much of a difference. My lord usually dies around turn 4 or 5, if at all, and I usually spent my blood tithe points on FNP. I guess it's pointless to take at less than 1000 points, but idk.

Also curious what you guys think of naked Spawn vs. naked Fleshhounds (no ICs).

Problem with the goredrinker is tje unwieldy. Often i find the flesh hounds to finish what i charge before the lord can strike. Because you want to run into squishy things to build his stats up beforw you take on something nasty like twc, mc and other deathstars.

The lclaw, pf combo is good but if you can afford the extra 15p i would recommend the axe of khorne /pfist combo, its really sad to have to fight a cc character with 2+ save like say an ironpriest on twc, since he will double out your lord with his str 10 at initiativ 1, and you want to kill him before that. (happened to me)