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I'd change the focus back to rules, fluff and substance while maintaining the quality of the models. I think proclaiming they are a model company first was a big snub and rather petulant of them.

Games Workshop used to be (all those years back) ALL about the games and rules. They even started out as a board game store!

Also, open up another centre like Warhammer World in London!

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

I point you to this quote from the recounting of the death of TSR, another company whose past GW is eerily paralleling....

I know now what killed TSR. It wasn't trading card games. It wasn't Dragon Dice. It wasn't the success of other companies. It was a near total inability to listen to its customers, hear what they were saying, and make changes to make those customers happy. TSR died because it was deaf.

Now replace "TSR" with"GW" in that sentence.

Only 5 changes?

1) Open-up two-way forum communication with customers: develop a community again. <edit> With particular attention to twitter and facebook... direct emails and physical mail to be fancied up especially nice (parchment paper, wax [purity] seal??) for the "we love you customer" experience.
2) Publish (re-publish?) index able articles from the various publications 1 year later and compile the TRUE GW wiki.
3) Hold a lottery of beta-testers for new rules and publish the results (with contact information), have them sign an NDA with guidance of what they can leak and what they should bring forward from their "contacts" with a full allowable disclosure 3 months after that product launch (keeps all groups honest during development).
4) Develop a "special" relationship with all stores that maintain a "play space" for preferred product distribution and have special tournament and "trinket" packages for their customers. Still maintain some "arms-length" from internet resellers.
5) Force game theory and marketing experts into a room together when starting kickoff for product development armed with research from both fields.
If little progress is made: encourage some drinking together and if still no progress: a locked door.

Notice, no mention of price changes, models or anything else.
The above items should give appropriate feedback for the rules and models to be made appropriate for the fan-base and hopefully mint money.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

I point you to this quote from the recounting of the death of TSR, another company whose past GW is eerily paralleling....

I know now what killed TSR. It wasn't trading card games. It wasn't Dragon Dice. It wasn't the success of other companies. It was a near total inability to listen to its customers, hear what they were saying, and make changes to make those customers happy. TSR died because it was deaf.

Now replace "TSR" with"GW" in that sentence.

I get that, I am just a little tired of the complaining about the perceived inequality. Lionel's story tells a cautionary tale for any niche company and I think GW won't go that way. Everyone and their squig knows the story if TSR its been done to death, I would just like to make it clear that TSR is not the only comparison.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

I point you to this quote from the recounting of the death of TSR, another company whose past GW is eerily paralleling....

I know now what killed TSR. It wasn't trading card games. It wasn't Dragon Dice. It wasn't the success of other companies. It was a near total inability to listen to its customers, hear what they were saying, and make changes to make those customers happy. TSR died because it was deaf.

Now replace "TSR" with"GW" in that sentence.

I get that, I am just a little tired of the complaining about the perceived inequality. Lionel's story tells a cautionary tale for any niche company and I think GW won't go that way. Everyone and their squig knows the story if TSR its been done to death, I would just like to make it clear that TSR is not the only comparison.

Everyone knows that story but GW apparently. The causation is much closer with TSR. Not listening to customers.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

Remind me again of how long ago the 1950s were and how much culture has changed since then?

People liking things that would have been considered inappropirate for their genders decades ago is happening literally all the time now. Teenage girls flock to watch the latest marvel movie in droves while grown ass men are playing with my little pony toys.

Sorry, I'm not buying your fedorahtastic BIOTRUTHS nonsense.

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

I've never, ever, seen a woman pick up this hobby because a model had boobs. They did it because the fluff is amazing, they enjoyed the strategy aspect, or they wanted to try and play the game that we were playing. Adding more female models to encourage more female players is meaningless - you're still identifying the problem as being "well they're GIRLS, so we need to treat them as such". Rather, the issue is us as players. We create "boys only zones", because we grew up that way and our natural tendencies are to do things that we don't even identify to ourselves as being exclusive in nature.

Don't get me wrong, I love female models, but I love them for the models, not because I care whether I'm removing a boy model or a girl model from the table as a casualty. My Shadowseer appears male. it has a flat chest and no other distinguishing characteristics. Yet I call my Shadowseer a her. Why? I don't know - it just feels right. She's insane at manipulating illusions and is able to fight the horrors of the 41st millenium with only a 5+ Inv save to protect her!

The best way to start tapping into the female demographic is to stop treating them differently, and put more women in positions of gaming authority. Someone else here suggested making White Dwarf free and online. I'm 100% with this. This is content, and that's advertising. Show women playing this game, and you'll get more women playing this game. So long as women just see a bunch of guys playing, they'll be just as intimidated as a man walking into a beauty salon filled with women. Think of the most uncomfortable time you've ever been around women, and that's probably how they feel when walking into a games store with a tournament in progress.

Sell all my shares and steal all the models in the warehouse and sell them online

 Yarium wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

I've never, ever, seen a woman pick up this hobby because a model had boobs. They did it because the fluff is amazing, they enjoyed the strategy aspect, or they wanted to try and play the game that we were playing. Adding more female models to encourage more female players is meaningless - you're still identifying the problem as being "well they're GIRLS, so we need to treat them as such". Rather, the issue is us as players. We create "boys only zones", because we grew up that way and our natural tendencies are to do things that we don't even identify to ourselves as being exclusive in nature.

Don't get me wrong, I love female models, but I love them for the models, not because I care whether I'm removing a boy model or a girl model from the table as a casualty. My Shadowseer appears male. it has a flat chest and no other distinguishing characteristics. Yet I call my Shadowseer a her. Why? I don't know - it just feels right. She's insane at manipulating illusions and is able to fight the horrors of the 41st millenium with only a 5+ Inv save to protect her!

The best way to start tapping into the female demographic is to stop treating them differently, and put more women in positions of gaming authority. Someone else here suggested making White Dwarf free and online. I'm 100% with this. This is content, and that's advertising. Show women playing this game, and you'll get more women playing this game. So long as women just see a bunch of guys playing, they'll be just as intimidated as a man walking into a beauty salon filled with women. Think of the most uncomfortable time you've ever been around women, and that's probably how they feel when walking into a games store with a tournament in progress.

Female characters and models are something of a personal appeal for me because I feel it's somewhat silly that supposedly egalitarian factions are near complete sausage fests in terms of models. Similarly, it also means more models for collectors and hobbyists to collect and allows people more variety and options in the hobby side of things.

But yes, certainly do promote the game as being something women can enjoy too.

Though given my trollish nature I might just throw in some brief; passing mention of hawt yaoi in 40k in a short, easily missed little passage to fill my cup of tears with neckbeard rage.

Biggest problem is the release schedule. Instead of giving everyone a full update all at once release campaign books with updates and new units for multiple armies in them, ends up making smaller and more frequent changes to everyone instead of big changes all at once and if you screw up one book you don't make the audience wait years for a whole new book to play the army again.

Every single other problem is rooted in the release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities.

Prove to me it's a biologically driven and not something that gets culturally pushed on people during their formative years.

To decide what I want to do, and what I'd do differntly, I first need to look at what GW does well.. and what they do poorly.
I'm going to ignore price because quite frankly prices for things, are and should be, set by beancounters upon careful anyalsis of the market, and honestly GW's prices aren't THAT bad on a per mini basis as I understand it. the problem is more the size of the game it's geared for (this can be fixed in all honesty by slowly scaling down the "ideal point" of the game. course then your selling less)

So what would I do?

1: begin public relations campaigns. while I'd proably not bother with a GW fourm for people to post stuff on (as they'd likely be filled with unreasonable requests. and "GW DO THIS OR YOUR GAME IS GOING TO DIE" hyperbole) but I'd certinly listen. I'd actually hire people to visit sites like this and just LURK (note if I was doing this you'd not have a clue it was being done.) . in addition, I'd revisit the white dwarves. honestly I think the white dwarf weekly works in it's current format. I might considering sales numbers consider making it a purely digital release though. Warhammer visions however would be TOTALLY revisited. If I wanna look at pretty painted minis I can find lots on the internet, hell some of the stuff for free on the 'net is proably better then some of the heavy metal stuff. so in this day and age whose going to buy a mag if all it is, is pictures of painted minis? instead I'd turn Visions into the "go to source for the awesome creativity in the warhammer universes" yes I'd have painted armies, I'd also have new short stories and the like (which I could later package into anthologies and sell as a book.) and art work, hell I'd make a point to toss examples of concept art a few months in advance of it's release. use it to start the teasing. (remember when concept art for the various admech stuff was found before we saw it? people talked about it. it lead to a lotta people having fun speculating. I'd WANT THAT) In short I'd want warhammer visions to appeal not just to the painted mini hobbist crowd. instead I'd want something that would appeal to people who liked warhammer (fantasy and 40k) as an IP. it'd be something that people who didn't even play the table top games might be intreasted in buying.

2: I'd make better use of the IP. warhammer is such a well known IP in Nerd circles even people who don't play it are familer with many of the memes. play these up,. a Red Shirt with a Ork dressed in a racer outfit with the words "red ones go fasta" for example.

3: I'd stop with the LE bs. all you;re doing is frustrating customers who can't get it. or pissing people off because of the blatent over charge. I don't mind a run of LE stuff along side the regular stuff (I'd never buy a LE codex but people do and more power to them) but stuff like the HH Talleran LE novel? that just ticks me off, I'd have bought the novel in an instant if they wheren't trying to charge 80 bucks for it. and given the novel STILL hasn't sold out, it seems that's the general concensus. I'm not even going to start on the void shield generator.

4: I'd strive for better rules balance. no balance in gaming is going to be perfect, but you can't take the Grey Knights codex, put it along side the eldar codex, and tell me they're equal.

5: ?profit

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
I get that, I am just a little tired of the complaining about the perceived inequality. Lionel's story tells a cautionary tale for any niche company and I think GW won't go that way.

It doesn't tell a cautionary tale at all because nobody is suggesting that GW invest huge amounts of money in a separate "40k for girls" product line with pink space marines. Adding, for example, female guardsmen (and NOT as sex objects for their male customers) in a more prominent role doesn't require a huge investment and still sells to GW's existing customers. It's a low-risk strategy unless you're absolutely convinced that your market is the awkward combination of young boys who are still stuck in the "girls are gross" stage and the whiny "SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS RUIN EVERYTHING" crowd.

A few people have already said it, but making the core rules and army lists free would make the hobby so much more accessible, this would really drive miniature sales and the sales of all the modelling and painting stuff. GW could easily be market leaders in both quality and market share if they wanted to be.

With that good will and fan base developed, the focus can swing to standalone board games like Space Hulk and the like, before bringing in miniature compatible games like blood bowl and necromunda.

This is going to be hard with only five things, but since this is the 40k forum I'll focus on fixing 40k and ignore GW's retail problems/the LOTR failure/etc:

1) Fire everyone involved in writing the rules. They're all incompetent morons and there are plenty of talented game designers available to replace them. When hiring replacements I will aim for the MTG model: making quality rules for competitive play is the top priority, and that includes extensive playtesting and development. Anyone who makes the "but this is a beer and pretzels game, people can make their own rules" excuse for why their work is terrible will be fired as soon as those words leave their mouth. There will be no more tolerance for publishing garbage and expecting people to pay full-game prices for it.

2) Finecast is gone. Whether it's replaced by metal or resin depends on what the manufacturing engineers suggest, but it's time to admit that finecast has been a complete disaster for the company. No new finecast models will be produced, and all existing inventory will be pulled from stores and destroyed as soon as the metal/resin replacements are cast. And I'm probably going to have to issue a formal apology for selling an obviously defective product if I'm going to have any chance of getting back the customers finecast has cost GW.

3) No more obsessive secrecy about new releases. Again, learn from MTG: the first vague hints of a new product are months in advance, and then there's a steady stream of previews over the month or so leading up to release day to build excitement for the new stuff. This includes using social media effectively and giving previews to major third-party blogs/forums/etc. And it certainly includes using previews as a marketing tool, both to attract new customers who hear excited fans talking about the new stuff, and to try to regain former customers who might see something they're interested in and come back.

4) Support for tournaments, including third-party events. Tournaments build the community and improve sales, and the investment required to provide official tournament rules and FFG/MTG-style prize support (cheap tokens/alternate art cards/etc) is tiny. I want 40k to have the equivalent of Friday Night Magic in every store, and I want to use major events to promote the brand and give new customers something to dream about. And I want competitive players to buy GW products instead of whatever other games they've been buying because they're frustrated with 40k.

5) Lower barriers to entry. High prices aren't a fatal problem once a customer is a devoted fan of the game, and 40k is considerably cheaper than a lot of other adult hobbies. The real issue is the up-front cost scaring away new customers. A customer with an established army might be willing to spend $100 every month or two, but a new customer facing a $500+ price tag just to try the game is likely to choose a cheaper alternative from my competition. Exactly how to do this would be open to debate, but might include cheap starter sets for every faction (potentially sold at-cost or even at a small loss to get people to buy the other kits) or a small-scale skirmish game that can give a new customer a taste of 40k with a $50-100 investment (the same price as a new video game).

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Biggest problem is the release schedule. Instead of giving everyone a full update all at once release campaign books with updates and new units for multiple armies in them, ends up making smaller and more frequent changes to everyone instead of big changes all at once and if you screw up one book you don't make the audience wait years for a whole new book to play the army again.

Every single other problem is rooted in the release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities.

Prove to me it's a biologically driven and not something that gets culturally pushed on people during their formative years.

Prove to me its not? Society is the way it is because of our nature. Men are drawn to war as it plays upon their protector drive and natural expendibility instinct, save the women and children first didn't come from nowhere.

I could also bring up I believe it was habro's "gender neutral playhouse" where they predicted all children would play with it in the same manner. They didn't. The boys and girls acted the way you would expect with the girls playing house and the boys attmpting to catapult one of the nonattched sections off the roof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

Remind me again of how long ago the 1950s were and how much culture has changed since then?

People liking things that would have been considered inappropirate for their genders decades ago is happening literally all the time now. Teenage girls flock to watch the latest marvel movie in droves while grown ass men are playing with my little pony toys.

Sorry, I'm not buying your fedorahtastic BIOTRUTHS nonsense.

I am not buying any of your cultural marxism either, its a two way street.

I also don't own a trilby, fedora or the like, just an ushanka, my brother wears a fedora, whilst playing minecraft and explaining gamergate over voicechat to his friends.

To redirect the conversation Lionel's attempt to appeal to girls is not the first time this has happened. If a niche company that survives on a devoted fanbase pours money into something that the fanbase doesnt want or won't buy because they don't like change, than they will lose money. Money is why they exist, not social justice and equality.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Society is the way it is because of our nature. Men are drawn to war as it plays upon their protector drive and natural expendibility instinct, save the women and children first didn't come from nowhere.

Exactly. All men carry the "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" gene and are inevitably attracted to war and slaughter, and will gladly martyr themselves to kill the enemy. This has nothing at all to do with culture, or a desire by the elites of society to encourage those attitudes in young men and ensure a constant supply of soldiers willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the king/CEO/etc.

/sarcasm

I could also bring up I believe it was habro's "gender neutral playhouse" where they predicted all children would play with it in the same manner. They didn't. The boys and girls acted the way you would expect with the girls playing house and the boys attmpting to catapult one of the nonattched sections off the roof.

Yeah, that clearly was the result of genes selected by our past as hunter-gatherers and not kids absorbing "this is how you play as a boy/girl" messages from society...

I am not buying any of your cultural marxism either, its a two way street.

Ooh, "cultural marxism", that's a new one. Too bad it doesn't make any sense.

To redirect the conversation Lionel's attempt to appeal to girls is not the first time this has happened. If a niche company that survives on a devoted fanbase pours money into something that the fanbase doesnt want or won't buy because they don't like change, than they will lose money.

And nobody is asking GW to pour lots of money into a risky marketing move. Unless you think that "SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS RUIN EVERYTHING" are GW's entire market and will ragequit if there are female guardsmen wearing sensible armor?

Money is why they exist, not social justice and equality.

And writing off 50% of the population as "not our market" is a bad way to make money.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Biggest problem is the release schedule. Instead of giving everyone a full update all at once release campaign books with updates and new units for multiple armies in them, ends up making smaller and more frequent changes to everyone instead of big changes all at once and if you screw up one book you don't make the audience wait years for a whole new book to play the army again.

Every single other problem is rooted in the release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities.

Prove to me it's a biologically driven and not something that gets culturally pushed on people during their formative years.

Prove to me its not? Society is the way it is because of our nature. Men are drawn to war as it plays upon their protector drive and natural expendibility instinct, save the women and children first didn't come from nowhere.

I could also bring up I believe it was habro's "gender neutral playhouse" where they predicted all children would play with it in the same manner. They didn't. The boys and girls acted the way you would expect with the girls playing house and the boys attmpting to catapult one of the nonattched sections off the roof.

That sounds like a god awful experiment with so many variables that no conclusion could be drawn from it.
Those kids could have already been exposed to cultural stereotypes that influenced their behavior, for example.
This is why most scientists disdain psychology.

@ Peregrine, did you have the same user name on Portent?

Akiasura wrote:
@ Peregrine, did you have the same user name on Portent?

Nope. Never even heard of it.

Do the opposite of everything shown in the hilarious Flashgitz "Inside GW" parody video.

This thread was more fun when people were posting what their dreams would be, rather than slating other people for being unrealistic :/

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Biggest problem is the release schedule. Instead of giving everyone a full update all at once release campaign books with updates and new units for multiple armies in them, ends up making smaller and more frequent changes to everyone instead of big changes all at once and if you screw up one book you don't make the audience wait years for a whole new book to play the army again.

Every single other problem is rooted in the release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities.

Prove to me it's a biologically driven and not something that gets culturally pushed on people during their formative years.

Prove to me its not? Society is the way it is because of our nature. Men are drawn to war as it plays upon their protector drive and natural expendibility instinct, save the women and children first didn't come from nowhere.

I could also bring up I believe it was habro's "gender neutral playhouse" where they predicted all children would play with it in the same manner. They didn't. The boys and girls acted the way you would expect with the girls playing house and the boys attmpting to catapult one of the nonattched sections off the roof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

Remind me again of how long ago the 1950s were and how much culture has changed since then?

People liking things that would have been considered inappropirate for their genders decades ago is happening literally all the time now. Teenage girls flock to watch the latest marvel movie in droves while grown ass men are playing with my little pony toys.

Sorry, I'm not buying your fedorahtastic BIOTRUTHS nonsense.

I am not buying any of your cultural marxism either, its a two way street.

I also don't own a trilby, fedora or the like, just an ushanka, my brother wears a fedora, whilst playing minecraft and explaining gamergate over voicechat to his friends.

To redirect the conversation Lionel's attempt to appeal to girls is not the first time this has happened. If a niche company that survives on a devoted fanbase pours money into something that the fanbase doesnt want or won't buy because they don't like change, than they will lose money. Money is why they exist, not social justice and equality.

Your refusal to engage my points that bronies are a thing and that "masculine" things like superhero movies now have huge female fanbases demonstrates the weakness of your position and will be taken as a concession that you have no arguments against them. And unironically using the term "cultural marxism" and "gamergate" (it's really just about journalistic integrity!) is where you have lost all credibility you didn't destroy by your avoidance of engaging me properly.

The human mind is incredibly malleable to outside influence. Someone born in China with nothing but Han Chinese in their family tree for three thousand years; if taken to America and raised with Anglo-Saxon Protestant cultural norms, will essentially be completely indistinguishable from an ethnic Anglo-Saxon with a long family history of membership in the Anglican church in mannerism and beliefs.

The various cultures of the world were formed by geographic and social, not biological conditions. The infintisemally tiny genetic differences between a Germanic white person from Scandinavia and a Han Chinese from Beijing do not in any way explain the huge differences in culture (especially because very little of the genetic differences affect mentality in anyway). Not unless you want to contort your argument into pretzel shapes by bringing up long dead (and long discredited) 19th century racist talking points.

And riddle me this: Why are your values, beliefs, and opinions so very irreconciliably different with that of a 17th century Burgher from the Holy Roman Empire; when genetically speaking, essentially nothing has changed?

 Kain wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Biggest problem is the release schedule. Instead of giving everyone a full update all at once release campaign books with updates and new units for multiple armies in them, ends up making smaller and more frequent changes to everyone instead of big changes all at once and if you screw up one book you don't make the audience wait years for a whole new book to play the army again.

Every single other problem is rooted in the release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities.

Prove to me it's a biologically driven and not something that gets culturally pushed on people during their formative years.

Prove to me its not? Society is the way it is because of our nature. Men are drawn to war as it plays upon their protector drive and natural expendibility instinct, save the women and children first didn't come from nowhere.

I could also bring up I believe it was habro's "gender neutral playhouse" where they predicted all children would play with it in the same manner. They didn't. The boys and girls acted the way you would expect with the girls playing house and the boys attmpting to catapult one of the nonattched sections off the roof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

Remind me again of how long ago the 1950s were and how much culture has changed since then?

People liking things that would have been considered inappropirate for their genders decades ago is happening literally all the time now. Teenage girls flock to watch the latest marvel movie in droves while grown ass men are playing with my little pony toys.

Sorry, I'm not buying your fedorahtastic BIOTRUTHS nonsense.

I am not buying any of your cultural marxism either, its a two way street.

I also don't own a trilby, fedora or the like, just an ushanka, my brother wears a fedora, whilst playing minecraft and explaining gamergate over voicechat to his friends.

To redirect the conversation Lionel's attempt to appeal to girls is not the first time this has happened. If a niche company that survives on a devoted fanbase pours money into something that the fanbase doesnt want or won't buy because they don't like change, than they will lose money. Money is why they exist, not social justice and equality.

Your refusal to engage my points that bronies are a thing and that "masculine" things like superhero movies now have huge female fanbases demonstrates the weakness of your position and will be taken as a concession that you have no arguments against them. And unironically using the term "cultural marxism" and "gamergate" (it's really just about journalistic integrity!) is where you have lost all credibility you didn't destroy by your avoidance of engaging me properly.

The human mind is incredibly malleable to outside influence. Someone born in China with nothing but Han Chinese in their family tree for three thousand years; if taken to America and raised with Anglo-Saxon Protestant cultural norms, will essentially be completely indistinguishable from an ethnic Anglo-Saxon with a long family history of membership in the Anglican church in mannerism and beliefs.

The various cultures of the world were formed by geographic and social, not biological conditions. The infintisemally tiny genetic differences between a Germanic white person from Scandinavia and a Han Chinese from Beijing do not in any way explain the huge differences in culture (especially because very little of the genetic differences affect mentality in anyway). Not unless you want to contort your argument into pretzel shapes by bringing up long dead (and long discredited) 19th century racist talking points.

And riddle me this: Why are your values, beliefs, and opinions so very irreconciliably different with that of a 17th century Burgher from the Holy Roman Empire; when genetically speaking, essentially nothing has changed?

I do actually have values and opinions that extrodinairily resemble those of a burgher in the Holy Roman empire, you are simply assuming am your average misogynistic fedora wearer . I am also talking in a broad sense, China and Europe had a lot similar in the way they were structured, and the area a culture grows up in tends to influence it as well. You are assuming that I believe that all culture is inherently genetic, which it is not, that is one of the deciding factors however, and to deny the fact that humans are governed by our hormones and genetics is ludicrous. Denying this leads dangerously closer to mind body dualism which is looked as far down upon as creationism in an intellectual setting.

I addressed your point on ""bronies"" when I addressed regression to the mean, despite the fact that they exist they are far from the majority and therefore are a statistical outlier, this can be attributed to a variety of factors, I didn't address it becease i was weak but rather didn't want to waste time i should be using to work repeating myself.

Further fuel to the fire would attract mods. i am sorry I challenged your viewpoints and convictions. I am now reverting back to my complacent brainwashed state that wishes for social justice. Now back to our regularly scheduled bash GW thread. I would recommend, despite your inclinations, that you do not reply as i have no wish to either continue the issue or bring in further separation from the topic at hand.

Please ignore this and continue to bash GW as always. Thank you.

I would do exactly what is being done now. And i would retire shortly before it became apparent that things are going south. And i would laugh my way to the bank.

tom kirby /respect

 Kain wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:


And riddle me this: Why are your values, beliefs, and opinions so very irreconciliably different with that of a 17th century Burgher from the Holy Roman Empire; when genetically speaking, essentially nothing has changed?

Or that further fuel to the fire would attract mods. i am sorry I challenged your viewpoints and convictions. I am now reverting back to my complacent brainwashed state that wishes for social justice. Now back to our regularly scheduled bash GW thread.

Tipping intensifies

Edited by Manchu.

Please do not attach images not related to war gaming to Dakka Dakka. Thanks!

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Biggest problem is the release schedule. Instead of giving everyone a full update all at once release campaign books with updates and new units for multiple armies in them, ends up making smaller and more frequent changes to everyone instead of big changes all at once and if you screw up one book you don't make the audience wait years for a whole new book to play the army again.

Every single other problem is rooted in the release schedule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities.

Prove to me it's a biologically driven and not something that gets culturally pushed on people during their formative years.

Prove to me its not? Society is the way it is because of our nature. Men are drawn to war as it plays upon their protector drive and natural expendibility instinct, save the women and children first didn't come from nowhere.

I could also bring up I believe it was habro's "gender neutral playhouse" where they predicted all children would play with it in the same manner. They didn't. The boys and girls acted the way you would expect with the girls playing house and the boys attmpting to catapult one of the nonattched sections off the roof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Finally; flatly reject the idea that this is a boy's only hobby and embrace female fans. Add more female characters (and ones who matter at that) where appropriate and for armies like the various Eldar, Inquisition, Guard etc; produce female models.

There is a story I would like to share:
There once was a company that did work in a specialist hobby, not unlike GW. They were called Lionel and they made trains. In fact they made the best trains, many still agree they did. However Lionel tried something in the fifties, they tried to make a line aimed at young girls. This did not work. It just seems that due to the biological laws of sexual dimorphism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism. It seems *gasp* our different biological drives and tendencies combined with regression towards the mean (just because you can name an exception does not invalidate the regression towards the mean) means the sexes tend to like different activities. Lionel lost a lot of capital on that line. GW would as well. It was part of the reason Lionel went under, it was the beginning of the end of a great american company.
GW wont do this as they would most likely understand that, they understand this and understand some of the mistakes made before them.

Remind me again of how long ago the 1950s were and how much culture has changed since then?

People liking things that would have been considered inappropirate for their genders decades ago is happening literally all the time now. Teenage girls flock to watch the latest marvel movie in droves while grown ass men are playing with my little pony toys.

Sorry, I'm not buying your fedorahtastic BIOTRUTHS nonsense.

I am not buying any of your cultural marxism either, its a two way street.

I also don't own a trilby, fedora or the like, just an ushanka, my brother wears a fedora, whilst playing minecraft and explaining gamergate over voicechat to his friends.

To redirect the conversation Lionel's attempt to appeal to girls is not the first time this has happened. If a niche company that survives on a devoted fanbase pours money into something that the fanbase doesnt want or won't buy because they don't like change, than they will lose money. Money is why they exist, not social justice and equality.

Your refusal to engage my points that bronies are a thing and that "masculine" things like superhero movies now have huge female fanbases demonstrates the weakness of your position and will be taken as a concession that you have no arguments against them. And unironically using the term "cultural marxism" and "gamergate" (it's really just about journalistic integrity!) is where you have lost all credibility you didn't destroy by your avoidance of engaging me properly.

The human mind is incredibly malleable to outside influence. Someone born in China with nothing but Han Chinese in their family tree for three thousand years; if taken to America and raised with Anglo-Saxon Protestant cultural norms, will essentially be completely indistinguishable from an ethnic Anglo-Saxon with a long family history of membership in the Anglican church in mannerism and beliefs.

The various cultures of the world were formed by geographic and social, not biological conditions. The infintisemally tiny genetic differences between a Germanic white person from Scandinavia and a Han Chinese from Beijing do not in any way explain the huge differences in culture (especially because very little of the genetic differences affect mentality in anyway). Not unless you want to contort your argument into pretzel shapes by bringing up long dead (and long discredited) 19th century racist talking points.

And riddle me this: Why are your values, beliefs, and opinions so very irreconciliably different with that of a 17th century Burgher from the Holy Roman Empire; when genetically speaking, essentially nothing has changed?

I do actually have values and opinions that extrodinairily resemble those of a burgher in the Holy Roman empire, you are simply assuming am your average misogynistic fedora wearer . I am also talking in a broad sense, China and Europe had a lot similar in the way they were structured, and the area a culture grows up in tends to influence it as well. You are assuming that I believe that all culture is inherently genetic, which it is not, that is one of the deciding factors however, and to deny the fact that humans are governed by our hormones and genetics is ludicrous. Denying this leads dangerously closer to mind body dualism which is looked as far down upon as creationism in an intellectual setting.

I addressed your point on ""bronies"" when I addressed regression to the mean, despite the fact that they exist they are far from the majority and therefore are a statistical outlier, this can be attributed to a variety of factors, I didn't address it becease i was weak but rather didn't want to waste time i should be using to work repeating myself.

Further fuel to the fire would attract mods. i am sorry I challenged your viewpoints and convictions. I am now reverting back to my complacent brainwashed state that wishes for social justice. Now back to our regularly scheduled bash GW thread. I would recommend, despite your inclinations, that you do not reply as i have no wish to either continue the issue or bring in further separation from the topic at hand.

Please ignore this and continue to bash GW as always. Thank you.

Thank you for conceding your defeat in the argument and demonstrating your ignorance of thirty years war era Germany unless you're entirely in favor of killing Protestants for challenging the Papacy and are broadly approving of killing Pagans if they refuse to convert and enslaving them if they do.

/pol/ was right (stopped taking this seriously one post ago)

I don't know how to run a business, but there are some things I would like to aim for.
1. Standardized and tested point building system. I don't feel as if you get what you pay for in points for models. I also think this is a shared feeling.
2. Cut back the black library. I love books, everyone loves books, and the 40k universe is diverse and incredible. That being said, there are too many authors. I want to aim for a smaller group of professional authors who can all collaborate on fluff to avoid contradiction.
3. Aim for smaller scale games as a standard. I like the feel of an apocalypse size model supported by footslogging infantry with a flashlight and massive brazen balls, but it makes it very hard to use fair rules and the money sunk into one army at the moment is ridiculous.
4. Diversity of characters in fluff and models. As hard as it is to believe, the future probably has more diversity than 99% white British men with a small group of women and even less people of colour. Not a financial move, this is just a matter of decency.
5. Have a small volunteer program of people who love GW games and equip them with all the resources to understand the fluff and rules for free of a certain game. In return, they become the official call centre for people who want to settle a debate or are unclear on a rule.
6. Actually give discounts on all those so called "bundles" you can get online. Right now buying a bundle costs the same as buying the models individually to the cent. If the reclamation legion bundle comes with everything it says it does, it costs the same as buying the boxes individually, but you don't even get the scarabs so it's actually a worse deal. (I have not gotten this bundle, so correct me if this is not true, but the description does leave out scarabs.)

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
(stopped taking this seriously one post ago)

I see, so you admit that you're guilty of non-constructive picture spamming (violating the "no non-wargaming attachments" rule in the process). Though it's kind of amusing to watch you run off and hide behind "I'm not taking this seriously anymore" when your attempt at a serious argument fails so badly. Bonus points for adding in a little "SJW SUCK" bit at the end just to confirm what kind of person you are.