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confoo22 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
So Eldar are given permission to use Malefic powers by the rulebook... and nothing in the codex removes that permission.

The sentence under Psyker for the unit entry that says "(Unit Name) generates powers from Daemonology (Sanctic)" coupled with the sentence " a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him," from the BRB is what removes that permission. The codex lists out what disciplines are known to the Eldar and it specifies that they can only draw powers from Sanctic. It really doesn't matter what the rulebook says about generating Malefic powers because the codex, which overrides the BRB, is explicitly telling you which subset of Daemonology powers you are generating from, therefore it excludes the subset you are not given permission to generate from.

Incorrect.

BRB - "Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline."

The new Codex: Eldar does not state otherwise. Stating otherwise would involve "cannot generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline" or something similar. Being told I can use Daemonology (Sanctic) isn't the same as being told I can't use Daemonology (Malefic).

If you were correct, no psyker in the game would be able to use Daemonology (Malefic) unless it was specifically listed in their unit entry. What about Tigurius? His unit entry states that he "generates his powers from the Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy disciplines." Clearly, the BRB adds Daemonology to that list. I'm curious to know your stance on this.

Does Tigurius have access to Daemonology (Malefic)? If so, why doesn't the Eldar psyker? It's an identical issue.

 Kriswall wrote:
BRB - "Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline."

The new Codex: Eldar does not state otherwise. Stating otherwise would involve "cannot generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline" or something similar. Being told I can use Daemonology (Sanctic) isn't the same as being told I can't use Daemonology (Malefic).

If you were correct, no psyker in the game would be able to use Daemonology (Malefic) unless it was specifically listed in their unit entry. What about Tigurius? His unit entry states that he "generates his powers from the Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy disciplines." Clearly, the BRB adds Daemonology to that list. I'm curious to know your stance on this.

Does Tigurius have access to Daemonology (Malefic)? If so, why doesn't the Eldar psyker? It's an identical issue.

It's not identical in the least. Space Marine FAQ has an amendment that specifically allows any model with the psyker special rule to generate from Daemonology discipline. It also does not break it down by specific subset, it simply says Daemonology, therefore he's allowed to generate from either subset. All 6th edition codexes except for Tyranids received amendments in their FAQs saying that they may do so.

Also, you're being told otherwise because there's already a rule in the BRB stating that a unit can only generate powers from disciplines that they know. Their unit entry lists disciplines that they know and specifies that it's Daemonlogy (Sanctic).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To break it down even further, the "unless otherwise stated" statement in that rule simply says that all psykers can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline. However, that wording does not apply to the specific subsets (i.e., it does not say "unless otherwise stated all psykers can generate from either Malefic or Sanctic"). Because of that, the unit entry doesn't have to specifically state that you can't use Malefic in order to deny you permission. You're already fulfilling the requirement that the psyker is generating from Daemonology, but you are specified that it's only the sanctic portion of the discipline.

confoo22 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
BRB - "Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline."

The new Codex: Eldar does not state otherwise. Stating otherwise would involve "cannot generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline" or something similar. Being told I can use Daemonology (Sanctic) isn't the same as being told I can't use Daemonology (Malefic).

If you were correct, no psyker in the game would be able to use Daemonology (Malefic) unless it was specifically listed in their unit entry. What about Tigurius? His unit entry states that he "generates his powers from the Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy disciplines." Clearly, the BRB adds Daemonology to that list. I'm curious to know your stance on this.

Does Tigurius have access to Daemonology (Malefic)? If so, why doesn't the Eldar psyker? It's an identical issue.

It's not identical in the least. Space Marine FAQ has an amendment that specifically allows any model with the psyker special rule to generate from Daemonology discipline. It also does not break it down by specific subset, it simply says Daemonology, therefore he's allowed to generate from either subset. All 6th edition codexes except for Tyranids received amendments in their FAQs saying that they may do so.

Also, you're being told otherwise because there's already a rule in the BRB stating that a unit can only generate powers from disciplines that they know. Their unit entry lists disciplines that they know and specifies that it's Daemonlogy (Sanctic).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To break it down even further, the "unless otherwise stated" statement in that rule simply says that all psykers can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline. However, that wording does not apply to the specific subsets (i.e., it does not say "unless otherwise stated all psykers can generate from either Malefic or Sanctic"). Because of that, the unit entry doesn't have to specifically state that you can't use Malefic in order to deny you permission. You're already fulfilling the requirement that the psyker is generating from Daemonology, but you are specified that it's only the sanctic portion of the discipline.

I was unaware of the Space Marine FAQ. I retract the statement. Fortunately, the example was simply an example and doesn't change my point.

Since you seem like the expert here, please provide page and paragraph from the new Eldar Codex specifically and unambiguously telling me that Eldar psykers CAN'T use Daemonology (Malefic) and thus overriding the permission granted in the BRB. Thanks. I eagerly await your citation.

Man, 5 pages later and its the same exact argument word for word.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Man, 5 pages later and its the same exact argument word for word.

What's your point? This is the way MOST arguments work when two parties interpret a statement differently. The issue has yet to be resolved and so it continues. Failure to respond is frequently seen as passive agreement, so these things tend to go on and on until a mod locks the thread with a standard "work it our with your opponent" disclaimer.

The core rulebook says you can do A unless told otherwise. The new codex sort of implies you can't do A, but doesn't actually say it. One side of the debate is perfectly willing to accept an implied restriction. The other side isn't willing to accept an implied restriction. This is a permissive rule set, so implied restriction generally aren't accepted in most circumstances. I'm honestly not sure why some people want to accept one here.

This thread is ridiculous wishful thinking. How is it five pages long?!

What is the point of listing what you're allowed to use if you are going to use what's not there anyway? You might as well have all your Eldar psychers using pyromancy or biomancy and riding in Space Marine Land Raiders as a dedicated transport.

Things that aren't listed aren't an option. Also notice that malefic was present in the previous book and now is not present. Typo? Nope. Removed on purpose.

We have a good codex. We don't need ridiculous, unfluffy daemon summoning abilities.

Cite your evidence for the missing out of malefic as a typo and not a deliberate removal.

 Kriswall wrote:
Since you seem like the expert here, please provide page and paragraph from the new Eldar Codex specifically and unambiguously telling me that Eldar psykers CAN'T use Daemonology (Malefic) and thus overriding the permission granted in the BRB. Thanks. I eagerly await your citation.

A. There's no need to get snotty about it.

B. C'mon man, get serious here. If the game had to literally write a sentence for every little thing that you cannot do then the rules would be much more complex and longer than it needs to be. An understanding of how the rules interact should be enough to tell you everything you need to know in this situation. Your request is a red herring and you know it.

C. I've already demonstrated why, through a combination of the RAW in both the BRB and the Codex, you do not have permission to generate Malefic powers. So the onus is actually on you to cite a rule the overrides that and does actually gives you permission. And before you present the same argument, I've also told you why the Malefic portion is excluded while still allowing the psyker to generate Daemonology powers. So please cite the rule that gives a psyker permission to generate a power from a discipline that he does not know, in this case Daemonology (Malefic).

And let me put this back up here since you glossed over it in your last response: the "unless otherwise stated" part that rule simply says that all psykers can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline. However, that wording does not apply to the specific subsets (i.e., it does not say "unless otherwise stated all psykers can generate from either Malefic or Sanctic"). Because of that, the unit entry doesn't have to specifically state that you can't use Malefic in order to deny you permission. You're already fulfilling the requirement that the psyker is generating from Daemonology, but you are specified that it's only the sanctic portion of the discipline.

Confoo22- You haven't provided any rules that prohibit using Malefic. You would need to cite a specific rule banning the Eldar from Malefic. Just because the book doesn't mention them being able to, is not a rule that outlaws it. We have a special rule in the rulebook allowing any psyker (out side of Nids) access.

Now GW probably means for the Eldar to not have access to Deamon summoning. That's a RAI fight though. What we have here is a 2 sets of books telling us what we can use and no rule prohibiting a rule out of the main rulebook. The Eldar can continue to summon deamons until we are given a rule otherwise.

The Rulebook gives Access to Damenolgy which gives you access to both sides of it. Just because in the codex it lists Santic doesn't exclude the Rulebook opening up Demonilgy and picking Malefic

Thimn wrote:
Confoo22- You haven't provided any rules that prohibit using Malefic. You would need to cite a specific rule banning the Eldar from Malefic. Just because the book doesn't mention them being able to, is not a rule that outlaws it. We have a special rule in the rulebook allowing any psyker (out side of Nids) access.

I feel like you didn't actually read what I posted. Again, that rule does not apply to specific subsets of Daemonology. It allows all psykers to generate from Daemonology, which Eldar do, they just don't generate from Malefic powers because their unit entry states that they know Daemonology (Sanctic). So, again, the onus is on you to cite a rule that overrides both the BRB rule AND the codex unit entry in order to allow Eldar to generate powers from a discipline they don't actually know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thimn wrote:
The Rulebook gives Access to Damenolgy which gives you access to both sides of it. Just because in the codex it lists Santic doesn't exclude the Rulebook opening up Demonilgy and picking Malefic

Except that the Malefic portion of the rule doesn't include the "unless otherwise stated" part that your entire argument hinges on. Therefore, the specification of Daemonology (Sanctic) overrides the use of Malefic powers.

confoo22 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Since you seem like the expert here, please provide page and paragraph from the new Eldar Codex specifically and unambiguously telling me that Eldar psykers CAN'T use Daemonology (Malefic) and thus overriding the permission granted in the BRB. Thanks. I eagerly await your citation.

A. There's no need to get snotty about it.

B. C'mon man, get serious here. If the game had to literally write a sentence for every little thing that you cannot do then the rules would be much more complex and longer than it needs to be. An understanding of how the rules interact should be enough to tell you everything you need to know in this situation. Your request is a red herring and you know it.

C. I've already demonstrated why, through a combination of the RAW in both the BRB and the Codex, you do not have permission to generate Malefic powers. So the onus is actually on you to cite a rule the overrides that and does actually gives you permission. And before you present the same argument, I've also told you why the Malefic portion is excluded while still allowing the psyker to generate Daemonology powers. So please cite the rule that gives a psyker permission to generate a power from a discipline that he does not know, in this case Daemonology (Malefic).

And let me put this back up here since you glossed over it in your last response: the "unless otherwise stated" part that rule simply says that all psykers can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline. However, that wording does not apply to the specific subsets (i.e., it does not say "unless otherwise stated all psykers can generate from either Malefic or Sanctic"). Because of that, the unit entry doesn't have to specifically state that you can't use Malefic in order to deny you permission. You're already fulfilling the requirement that the psyker is generating from Daemonology, but you are specified that it's only the sanctic portion of the discipline.

A. I wasn't being snotty.

B. I'm not asking for every little thing you can't do. You're telling me I can't do something. The core rules specifically and unambiguously tell me I can. I'm simply asking what wording you see in the new Codex that says I can't. The request most certainly isn't a red herring. This is the core of the debate. The core rules say I can do something. If you tell me I can't, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for a rules citation. Is there a reason you won't provide one limiting access to Malefic?

C. You have done no such thing. The core rules tell me I can use Malefic Daemonology. I would argue that as this is a permissive rule set and I have clear and explicit permission from the core rules, the onus is on you to find wording granting a clear and unambiguous restriction. My can is clear. Your can't has yet to be quoted.

I appreciate what you're getting at in the last paragraph, but there is not support for that in the rules. The core rules tell me, in effect, that I can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline unless stated otherwise. The rules go on to say that "each time a psyker generates a power from the Daemonology discipline, he can choose to generate it from either the Sanctic or Malefic set of powers." The Eldar codex tells me that Eldar psykers can generate powers from the Daemonology (Sanctic) discipline... which is not a thing. The discipline is called Daemonology. For the sake of argument, I'll grant that Daemonology (Sanctic) refers to the Sanctic set of powers. Telling me that an Eldar psyker has access to the Sanctic set of powers is interesting, but ultimately redundant. The core rules have already told me that.

What we don't have is any wording anywhere in the codex telling me that Eldar psykers can't generate a power from the Malefic set of powers. Sure, it's sort of implied... maybe... BUT it's not actually written down anywhere. If you want to ban the Malefic set of powers, that's fine. Feel free to do so, but please understand that it will be a house rule. From a RaW standpoint, the core rules allow it and Eldar Codex doesn't disallow it.

 Kriswall wrote:
What we don't have is any wording anywhere in the codex telling me that Eldar psykers can't generate a power from the Malefic set of powers. Sure, it's sort of implied... maybe... BUT it's not actually written down anywhere. If you want to ban the Malefic set of powers, that's fine. Feel free to do so, but please understand that it will be a house rule. From a RaW standpoint, the core rules allow it and Eldar Codex doesn't disallow it.

I disagree and almost anyone else who understands how the ruleset interacts and works within itself will as well. I've shown how RAW actually denies you permission, but in the end I can't convince you of something that it's pretty obvious you don't want to be convinced about so I'm just going let it lie instead of typing the same thing over and over. What you need to understand, though, is that if you're entire argument in the face of evidence against boils down to "Show me the rule that says I can't," then it's pretty weak tea, and don't expect TOs to FAQ it because they will almost definitely not consider it a "house rule."

confoo22 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
What we don't have is any wording anywhere in the codex telling me that Eldar psykers can't generate a power from the Malefic set of powers. Sure, it's sort of implied... maybe... BUT it's not actually written down anywhere. If you want to ban the Malefic set of powers, that's fine. Feel free to do so, but please understand that it will be a house rule. From a RaW standpoint, the core rules allow it and Eldar Codex doesn't disallow it.

I disagree and almost anyone else who understands how the ruleset interacts and works within itself will as well. I've shown how RAW actually denies you permission, but in the end I can't convince you of something that it's pretty obvious you don't want to be convinced about so I'm just going let it lie instead of typing the same thing over and over. What you need to understand, though, is that if you're entire argument in the face of evidence against boils down to "Show me the rule that says I can't," then it's pretty weak tea, and don't expect TOs to FAQ it because they will almost definitely not consider it a "house rule."

First of all, I'm not interested in what TOs are going to do. Every decision a TO makes is a house rule for that particular tourney. I'm only interested in what the rules actually say. This is a RaW discussion, not a tournament FAQ discussion.

Secondly, you have yet to post a single quotation saying I can't choose powers from the Malefic set of Daemonology powers. I've posted quotations saying I can. Telling me I can't do something that the core rules tell me I can and then refusing to post a citation is also "pretty weak tea".

Lastly, and since you are fairly well spoken and can type in full sentences (this is a genuine complement in a forum environment), I'll assume you recognize that this is not one of those "show me the rule that says I can't" situations we see so often in a rules forum. I'm not saying "I can give my Rhino 47x Lascannons. Show me the rule that says I can't!" What I'm saying is "The core rules tell me I can. Unless you can show me a rule saying I can't, I will obey the core rules and assume I still can."

All I'm asking for is for you to provide actual rules quotes to back up your assertion that Eldar psykers are restricted from generating Malefic powers. I have read the new Codex from cover to cover and am unable to find any wording mentioning Malefic powers and telling me I can't generate powers from them.

confoo22 wrote:
The sentence under Psyker for the unit entry that says "(Unit Name) generates powers from Daemonology (Sanctic)" coupled with the sentence " a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him," from the BRB is what removes that permission.

It really, really doesn't.

If you have a rule that gives you permission to do something, another rule that also gives you permission to do a slightly different version of that thing doesn't remove the original permission.

If I say 'You have permission to go to the mall' and then the next day say 'You have permission to go to Toys 'r' Us', you can still go to the mall. You're not restricted to that one shop just because I issued a separate statement.

Removal of the initial permission requires a statement that specifically states that permission is revoked.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
This thread is ridiculous wishful thinking. How is it five pages long?!

Probably because it's not 'wishful thinking' but is actually a discussion of a perceived issue with the rules.

What is the point of listing what you're allowed to use if you are going to use what's not there anyway? .

That's not what's happening here.

Confoo22- You asked me to post a rule that gives access to Demonology,

From the Rulebook- " Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline. The Daemonology discipline has not one, but two different sets of powers, one labelled ‘Sanctic’ and one labelled ‘Malefic’. Each time a Psyker generates a power from the Daemonology discipline he can choose to generate it from either the Sanctic or Malefic set of powers. For the purposes of Psychic Focus, the Sanctic and Malefic sets of powers are different psychic disciplines."

Please enlighten me where anywhere in the Eldar codex it states Eldar are unable to choose Malefic. The above rule clearly gives any psyker (outside of Nids) access to Daemonology. It even goes on to state since you have access to Daemonology you can choose which side of it you want. The Eldar book saying I can take Santic, while redundant doesn't exclude me from Malefic. Are you now able to cite where it says I am unable to choose Malefic?

Thimn wrote:
Confoo22- You asked me to post a rule that gives access to Demonology,

From the Rulebook- " Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline. The Daemonology discipline has not one, but two different sets of powers, one labelled ‘Sanctic’ and one labelled ‘Malefic’. Each time a Psyker generates a power from the Daemonology discipline he can choose to generate it from either the Sanctic or Malefic set of powers. For the purposes of Psychic Focus, the Sanctic and Malefic sets of powers are different psychic disciplines."

Please enlighten me where anywhere in the Eldar codex it states Eldar are unable to choose Malefic. The above rule clearly gives any psyker (outside of Nids) access to Daemonology. It even goes on to state since you have access to Daemonology you can choose which side of it you want. The Eldar book saying I can take Santic, while redundant doesn't exclude me from Malefic. Are you now able to cite where it says I am unable to choose Malefic?

They listed daemonology (Santic) for a reason. Hence they can only use daemonology (Sanctic) and not daemonology (malefic). Why else would they put one and not the other?

notredameguy10 wrote:

Thimn wrote:
Confoo22- You asked me to post a rule that gives access to Demonology,

From the Rulebook- " Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline. The Daemonology discipline has not one, but two different sets of powers, one labelled ‘Sanctic’ and one labelled ‘Malefic’. Each time a Psyker generates a power from the Daemonology discipline he can choose to generate it from either the Sanctic or Malefic set of powers. For the purposes of Psychic Focus, the Sanctic and Malefic sets of powers are different psychic disciplines."

Please enlighten me where anywhere in the Eldar codex it states Eldar are unable to choose Malefic. The above rule clearly gives any psyker (outside of Nids) access to Daemonology. It even goes on to state since you have access to Daemonology you can choose which side of it you want. The Eldar book saying I can take Santic, while redundant doesn't exclude me from Malefic. Are you now able to cite where it says I am unable to choose Malefic?

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]. They listed daemonology (Santic) for a reason. Hence they can only use daemonology (Sanctic) and not daemonology (malefic). Why else would they put one and not the other?

That's the point. They wrote their (probably) intended rules wrong. This whole thread is really just an attempt to point that out. Blame GW, not the person who found the flaw in the rules.

That is all implied . So we know RAI is clear.
RAW however, is fething stupid.

It gives us
permission to roll on runes (codex)
permission to roll on daemonology (rulebook)
permission to roll on daemonology sanctic (codex) [also redundant]

All 3 are allowed, and you may choose which to roll on.
If you roll on "daemonology" it states you may roll on malefic or sanctic.
so RAW permission is still there, it's just stupid as hell

Glad GW could rush this new Eldar codex out in barely two years and not even bother to make sure it caught all of the interactions with the main rulebook; I guess "Editor" sounds too much like "Playtester". Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering to say anything looking at what wondrous things have come from this new Eldar book, so I'll just say good job GW!

No major tournament is going to allow Eldar to summon Daemons.

So if your small local town FLGS allows it, good for them. If you do it in pickup games, go for it. The paradigm in any community that even slightly takes "The big guys" opinion on anything will not be seeing summoning amongst Eldar.

Essentially supporting the idea that they still can is just actively working against moving the community forward.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
No major tournament is going to allow Eldar to summon Daemons.

So if your small local town FLGS allows it, good for them. If you do it in pickup games, go for it. The paradigm in any community that even slightly takes "The big guys" opinion on anything will not be seeing summoning amongst Eldar.

Essentially supporting the idea that they still can is just actively working against moving the community forward.

I'm not arguing one way other another for this topic. I just think it would have taken someone only a few minutes to reference the psychic section in the rulebook, look at the minor changes they came up with for this codex re-hash, and say "Okay, just want to make sure we don't leave in any possible ambiguities whatsoever. Because we care about the rules being good and to help make enjoyment straightforward." And then bam, you could make this wording consistent across all fething books. I mean seriously, I put in my forethought into composing emails than this consideration would have taken.

It just makes me think of that video in the 40k Discussions sections showing the interview with the author of this new Eldar codex.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646960.page

Oh yeah, I totally agree. GW rules writing is bad and this is an oversight I would have most definitely have seen if I was a GW writer.

RAW, I think the argument most definitely supports Eldar being able to summon Daemons. The main argument against it is that before the FAQ explicitly allowed it, and that FAQ no longer exists. The other is that the absence of Daemonology counts as the book saying that they cannot. Both of these are flawed for various reasons.


As much as I champion RAW for solving table to table arguments, this is a paradigm thing. There is a chance it can be one of those rules that exists in the background andf changes from region to region (Like that one rule where psykers count as units if they are within units and powers can be repeated). However, most players that I know say they cannot.

It seems like the whole purpose of this thread is for Eldar players (whom already have the most broken codex in the game) to try and get more broken.

 Harukae wrote:
It seems like the whole purpose of this thread is for Eldar players (whom already have the most broken codex in the game) to try and get more broken.

This thread was dead for like a week before another poster dragged it back up to make a similarly inane and entirelty unhelpful comment.

For goodness' sake, let the thread die, man.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Harukae wrote:
It seems like the whole purpose of this thread is for Eldar players (whom already have the most broken codex in the game) to try and get more broken.

This thread was dead for like a week before another poster dragged it back up to make a similarly inane and entirelty unhelpful comment.

For goodness' sake, let the thread die, man.

I'm just pointing out that Eldar now have the strongest codex, and yet there will be people that will argue RAW for Malefic psychic powers even though they have the strongest army in the game now. People already have problems with the idea of playing Eldar (most of the players at a shop I play at have traded off or sold whatever armies they had for 40K) and will refuse to play any Eldar player that tries to argue that they can summon daemons because of RAW.

My argument is more on the subject matter of how people will act and how unhealthy the game will become when people do exactly this. So you are not wrong Mr. Shine, my comment was incorrect as to how to address the topic, and as I don't follow the forums regular I may see something later than yourself.

I think you will find that those arguing for RAW readings here are not those defending the codex. They are pointing out how horribly written it is.

 Harukae wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Harukae wrote:
It seems like the whole purpose of this thread is for Eldar players (whom already have the most broken codex in the game) to try and get more broken.

This thread was dead for like a week before another poster dragged it back up to make a similarly inane and entirelty unhelpful comment.

For goodness' sake, let the thread die, man.

I'm just pointing out that Eldar now have the strongest codex, and yet there will be people that will argue RAW for Malefic psychic powers even though they have the strongest army in the game now. People already have problems with the idea of playing Eldar (most of the players at a shop I play at have traded off or sold whatever armies they had for 40K) and will refuse to play any Eldar player that tries to argue that they can summon daemons because of RAW.

My argument is more on the subject matter of how people will act and how unhealthy the game will become when people do exactly this. So you are not wrong Mr. Shine, my comment was incorrect as to how to address the topic, and as I don't follow the forums regular I may see something later than yourself.

Disclaimer... I'm not an Eldar player.

Dude, I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't care less about how powerful a codex is when I'm trying to work out a rules issue. I'm just trying to work out how the rules interact. You sound like you don't actually care what RaW says. You sound like you're arguing that everyone should remain willfully ignorant and not bother to interpret the rules. If you're not interested in what the rules actually have to say, why are you posting in a rules forum? Genuinely curious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, refusing to play Eldar because RaW says they can summon Daemons is no different from refusing to play Tau because they have lots of shooting attacks.

Sort of comes across as a tantrum. I see it as a challenge.

 Harukae wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Harukae wrote:
It seems like the whole purpose of this thread is for Eldar players (whom already have the most broken codex in the game) to try and get more broken.

This thread was dead for like a week before another poster dragged it back up to make a similarly inane and entirelty unhelpful comment.

For goodness' sake, let the thread die, man.

I'm just pointing out that Eldar now have the strongest codex, and yet there will be people that will argue RAW for Malefic psychic powers even though they have the strongest army in the game now. People already have problems with the idea of playing Eldar (most of the players at a shop I play at have traded off or sold whatever armies they had for 40K) and will refuse to play any Eldar player that tries to argue that they can summon daemons because of RAW.

My argument is more on the subject matter of how people will act and how unhealthy the game will become when people do exactly this. So you are not wrong Mr. Shine, my comment was incorrect as to how to address the topic, and as I don't follow the forums regular I may see something later than yourself.

And yet your comment was (as was the comment I referred to) doing nothing to further or even relevantly contribute to the rules discussion, which is what this subforum and this thread are meant to be concerned with.

There's far too much commentary in this thread and others seeking clarification/thoughts/answers to Eldar Craftworlds rules questions that's irrelevant and completely unhelpful.

Can we please try and let this die?