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he achieved more then Horus and any other Primarch

in the words of Abaddon, a student of Horus that admired him so much

"Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy within his grasp and he let it slip away." - Abaddon


and its funny..that Abaddon not only has a greater legacy then Horus or any of the other primarchs, but he could 1 v1 beat the crap of any of them in a fight (that's current abaddon vs. pre-heresy primarchs)

Uh, no. Abaddon is not on the level of most of the Primarchs, and at best could possibly have taken the actual Horus pre-Chaos boon and Lorgar pre-Chaos boon, as they were both pretty pathetic in terms of combat capability.

But the Lion, Curze, Magnus, Sanguinius, Leman Russ, Angron, etc would wipe Abaddon off the map, even with Chaos empowerment. He isn't even close to their level.

Besides, Horus was never martially impressive, and Horus was never supposed to win either. He was destined to fail by Chaos itself.

How about that Crythe Cluster debacle, hmm?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Uh, no. Abaddon is not on the level of most of the Primarchs, and at best could possibly have taken the actual Horus pre-Chaos boon and Lorgar pre-Chaos boon, as they were both pretty pathetic in terms of combat capability.

But the Lion, Curze, Magnus, Sanguinius, Leman Russ, Angron, etc would wipe Abaddon off the map, even with Chaos empowerment. He isn't even close to their level.

Besides, Horus was never martially impressive, and Horus was never supposed to win either. He was destined to fail by Chaos itself.

could he at least be competitive with them in a fight...

so your saying essentially pre-heresy primarch>>>chaos empowered abaddon

LightKing wrote:
he achieved more then Horus and any other Primarch

in the words of Abaddon, a student of Horus that admired him so much

"Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy within his grasp and he let it slip away." - Abaddon


and its funny..that Abaddon not only has a greater legacy then Horus or any of the other primarchs, but he could 1 v1 beat the crap of any of them in a fight (that's current abaddon vs. pre-heresy primarchs)

Chaos fueled Abbadon could beat non Chaos fueled pre heresy Primarchs? Naw probably not.

Also his Legacy sucks. Without Horus there is no Abbadon. That's like saying Hercules had more of a legacy than Zeus. Abbadon has achieved absolutely nothing. Lorgar tore a unified Imperium apart, and yes I consider it him, because it was him and his legion who started the heresy without question. Horus killed Sanguinius and confined big E to the Golden Throne. While Abbadon has done nothing but kill a handful of Cadians and few random Space Marine heroes invented solely for the purpose of giving Abbadon a hero to kill

Well to be fair Zeus' legacy was mostly with the hundreds of woman he slept with/ creating terrible monsters for the world to deal with While Hercules was more about rescuing damsels in distress and other innocents from said monsters.

LightKing wrote:


"Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy within his grasp and he let it slip away." - Abaddon

So Abaddon says something and that means it MUST be true? I think someone might just be a tad bit too mesmerized by his top-knot...

I'd like to see Abaddon tell Angron he's a scrub. It would be like a great white shark throttling a human into paste

NauticalKendall wrote:
I'd like to see Abaddon tell Angron he's a scrub. It would be like a great white shark throttling a human into paste

Your imagination is a little too dark for my tastes sir. ( scoots back nervously)

I'm sorry, anyone with a name like Failbbadon the Armless isn't as good as a primarch.

You're high Horus came way closer to conquering the IOM than all of abaddon's crusades put together. Allso the Primarch's united countless worlds under the IOM.

 chazz huggins wrote:
You're high Horus came way closer to conquering the IOM than all of abaddon's crusades put together. Allso the Primarch's united countless worlds under the IOM.

Horus never came close to conquering the Imperium- not at all. His entire campaign was a ploy by Chaos, the gods never wanted him to win.

Abaddon isn't dead yet so one can't sucessfully judge his legacy. right now? he has acheived less then Horus. but assuming you follow all the prophecy stuff as truth, Abaddon may succeed where Horus Failed

 Wyzilla wrote:

 chazz huggins wrote:
You're high Horus came way closer to conquering the IOM than all of abaddon's crusades put together. Allso the Primarch's united countless worlds under the IOM.

Horus never came close to conquering the Imperium- not at all. His entire campaign was a ploy by Chaos, the gods never wanted him to win.

But he did win over the Imperium, of a sort. He successfully altered it to a state of bitter in-fueding and stagnation that's lasted 10,000 years. I'd call that some measure of success.

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 chazz huggins wrote:
You're high Horus came way closer to conquering the IOM than all of abaddon's crusades put together. Allso the Primarch's united countless worlds under the IOM.

Horus never came close to conquering the Imperium- not at all. His entire campaign was a ploy by Chaos, the gods never wanted him to win.

But he did win over the Imperium, of a sort. He successfully altered it to a state of bitter in-fueding and stagnation that's lasted 10,000 years. I'd call that some measure of success.

Indeed, it's a HUGE legacy, even if not the one he nesscarily wanted

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 chazz huggins wrote:
You're high Horus came way closer to conquering the IOM than all of abaddon's crusades put together. Allso the Primarch's united countless worlds under the IOM.

Horus never came close to conquering the Imperium- not at all. His entire campaign was a ploy by Chaos, the gods never wanted him to win.

But he did win over the Imperium, of a sort. He successfully altered it to a state of bitter in-fueding and stagnation that's lasted 10,000 years. I'd call that some measure of success.

True, but in the grand scheme Horus was just a pawn. IMO Abaddon's better than Horus in that Abaddon understands and comprehends Chaos better than his father. He's physically inferior, but seems to be more cunning when it comes to Chaos politicking.

Doesn't he have 12 failed tries under his belt and working on his 13th? Gotta give him points for tenacity, he'd make a great Warboss.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Doesn't he have 12 failed tries under his belt and working on his 13th? Gotta give him points for tenacity, he'd make a great Warboss.

no, you gotta take into account that the idea that each Black crusade was a single differnt attempt to conquer the IoM is... untrue. rather then where wars fought for specific objectives. objectives Abbaddon met.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 chazz huggins wrote:
You're high Horus came way closer to conquering the IOM than all of abaddon's crusades put together. Allso the Primarch's united countless worlds under the IOM.

Horus never came close to conquering the Imperium- not at all. His entire campaign was a ploy by Chaos, the gods never wanted him to win.

But he did win over the Imperium, of a sort. He successfully altered it to a state of bitter in-fueding and stagnation that's lasted 10,000 years. I'd call that some measure of success.

True, but in the grand scheme Horus was just a pawn. IMO Abaddon's better than Horus in that Abaddon understands and comprehends Chaos better than his father. He's physically inferior, but seems to be more cunning when it comes to Chaos politicking.

Abaddon is no less a pawn than Horus. That line about Horus being a fool illustrates just how much Chaos has twisted Abaddon against himself IMO. Abaddon was closer to Horus than any of the Luna Wolves, he openly wept when Horus was injured on Davin and there was no hesitation do whatever it took, Imperial law be damned, to save Horus. Now, as a servant of Chaos he has nothing but contempt for Horus. Abaddon lost himself a very long time ago, and any ambitions he might believe to be his own are just delusions the Chaos Gods allow him to keep IMO.

At the moment dealing with any "certanties" when it comes to Abbadon would be a mistake, as his trilogy of books has not been finished, there will be a lot of retcons coming, the biggest of which is abbadon is actually not a bad guy, yes he may be corrupted by chaos somewhere along the line but in talon of horus it makes it pretty clear he isnt even slightly interested in chaos winning, just tearing the imperium down.

chaos is just the tool, and the fact he turned down deamondom shows that chaos doesnt quite have the influence it thinks it has over him.

Also failbaddon is a naff meme that needs to die, the only people who state it are the people who dont know or understand the fluff, he never failed in his black crusades, he got what he wanted and dropped the chaff as he left, he is a big picture bad guy, not a win every battle bad guy.

 Formosa wrote:
At the moment dealing with any "certanties" when it comes to Abbadon would be a mistake, as his trilogy of books has not been finished, there will be a lot of retcons coming, the biggest of which is abbadon is actually not a bad guy, yes he may be corrupted by chaos somewhere along the line but in talon of horus it makes it pretty clear he isnt even slightly interested in chaos winning, just tearing the imperium down.

chaos is just the tool, and the fact he turned down deamondom shows that chaos doesnt quite have the influence it thinks it has over him.

Also failbaddon is a naff meme that needs to die, the only people who state it are the people who dont know or understand the fluff, he never failed in his black crusades, he got what he wanted and dropped the chaff as he left, he is a big picture bad guy, not a win every battle bad guy.

Horus didn't care about Chaos winning either. He went against the plans of the Chaos Gods on several occasions to pursue his own plans. He also did not ascend to daemonhood either. In the end it didn't matter, he ended up achieving the goals of the Chaos Gods but not his own. Ultimately, Abaddon will be no different.

Any of the Primarchs that ascended to Deamonhood probably really don't give a rats ass right now about anyone's legacy TBF.

"What's that Abby? Sorry I can't hear you, too much Deamonette tit in my mouth!"

On a serious note, Horus was set up to fail so that Abby could have a swipe at the greater goal; which is a long term plan he has been slowly achieving through the other black crusades. I'd also aruge that Guilliman has the largest legacy, given the amount of space marine chapters are floating around up there!

Doesn't really matter if failing 12 times resulted in an undesirable meme. I'd call it well earned. His victories at best might have been beating the other chaos chapters into submission and joining him on his crusades but even that might still be credited to the chaos powers, Tzeentch most likely. Everyone always remembers you based on your last fight, Maybe this 13th crusade will set things straight and Abaddon wins. But that end game is as likely to pass as Nids eating the whole galaxy, Orks conquering the galaxy, or the Emporer snapping back to life and with a wave of his hand all of humanity is saved etc... Essentially, the day Abaddon stops being Failbaddon is the day GW has decided to bench 40k universe.

Doesn't all of GW fluff result in undesirable MEMEs?

abbadon has had 12 crusades and hasn't even touched the emporer, horus almost killed him and a primarch 1st try

 Formosa wrote:
Also failbaddon is a naff meme that needs to die, the only people who state it are the people who dont know or understand the fluff, he never failed in his black crusades, he got what he wanted and dropped the chaff as he left, he is a big picture bad guy, not a win every battle bad guy.

Hear, hear!

12 successful Black Crusades and he's now working on his ultimate one, the one those other 12 have been preparing for, the one where he actually tries to reach Terra.

People who keep saying he's failed 12 times are either are players who haven't actually read the background and just pick it up from terrible 40K memes/1d4chan or players who have read it and willfully ignorant because reasons.

We''ll stop insulting Failbaddon as soon as you stop calling us ultrasmurfs, and acknowledge our superiority as Space Marines!
But seriously your right, and technically he "won" the 13th but it was retconned and now we are perpetually stuck.

Well, Chaos won on the ground, but the Imperium won in space.

So he wasn't ever going to get to Terra, but he was going to be able to get out of the Eye of Terror...

The imperium was going to "win" the 13th crusade for obvious reasons

As it is his 12 crusades are all set up as different objectives to prepare one, grand crusade (the 13th) but it is VERY important to remember that is not how it always was
Originally, he simply had done the whole crusade against the IoM on cadia 13 times, with it being the same old song and dance.
We did not have much information on the original twelve because it was assumed they were just the same as the 13th, but obliviously didn't succeed since he had to keep retrying
He gained the nickname and horrible reputation for a good reason, and that simply being that he had poor, and one dimensional fluff
GW later retconed his past and changed the crusades up to make them have a greater purpose for being spread out, and that was all just an attempt to make him see more menacing then the Saturday morning villain he originally was
Personally, I would love to see him rise high due to having a large number of allies gathered and then stabbed in the back by someone like Huron, Erebus, or maybe even Fabius Bile

So people have reason to mock him, and changing some words in a book isn't often enough to change someones mind very quickly (and the ever slowing change of pace in the timeline isn't going to help that anytime soon)