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Iracundus wrote:

 Azaghâl wrote:
@Sir Samuel - I'm pretty sure out of the original 6 Blackstone Forresses - Abaddon has 2, Imperium has 3 and 1 is destroyed

Incorrect. The Imperium has 0, as all the remaining ones self-destructed at the end of the Gothic War, as described in the BFG rulebook. Of the 2 that Abaddon escaped with, one was rumored to be destroyed by Necrons during the 13th Black Crusade (i.e. not confirmed) while the other one bombarded Cadia then left after Eldrad was sucked into its depths and killed.

I though eldrad's death had been retconned in one of the recent eldar codex. IIRC, the 13th black crusade hasn't actually started yet in the fluff and the occurrences in that campaign have been ruled null in cannon. I could be wrong through. It isn't really relevant to our discussion.

What if there was a way using an artifact like The Pharos to back-channel and overload the synapses in the warp gestalt? If it can cut through warp storms it could probably cut through the shadow.

Something like that, some sort of artifact or relic of some sort, seems to me to be the most-likely chance, and possibly also the easiest to deploy in a Deathwatch game.

The Last Days of Ector mentions this. It's practically impossible to win without a fleet.

So I've compiled a list of resources the Inquisitor has
20 regular deathwatch guys npc
A 5 man Grey knight terminator squad
A Sisters of Battle convent
The Inquisitor himself
Platoons of pdf guys
Squads of Scions from the Inquisitors retinue
As far as vehicles go I thought the assault ram would be good for boarding the hive ship I also think drop pods can be used for boarding action (I have no proof of this I just saw another GM use them like that)
Is this enough to take out the Hive ship and any other tips on a boarding action would be nice.
Ps an ork blood axe Waaagh and a company of marines owe the Inquisitior a few favors

Drop pods can't be used for boarding actions.

You either need assault rams, boarding torpedoes, or assault boats (although in the latter case you get dropped on the outer hull and need to cut your way inside).

Taking over a ship - tyranid or not - with a couple of hundred people isn't viable, but then "taking over" a hive ship isn't possible anyway - it's a hostile living organism.

Killing it - by lobotmising it, or destroying its engines so it falls out of orbit, or setting off some sort of high-powered device by critical organs (vortex grenade[s] are good) is possible, but it's going to have to be very much a 'hit and run' strike.

Getting past defending drones and kraken patrolling around the outside of the ship can be a real trick - you might want a couple of destroyers to run escort (if you do, they're probably not coming back).

A good 'boarding a hive ship' mission actually already exists - although you'll need to tweak the difficulty level to match the power level of the party and allies. Look on Fantasy Flight's web page for a mission called Oblivion's Edge. It's a free .pdf download.

 chazz huggins wrote:
So I've compiled a list of resources the Inquisitor has
20 regular deathwatch guys npc
A 5 man Grey knight terminator squad
A Sisters of Battle convent
The Inquisitor himself
Platoons of pdf guys
Squads of Scions from the Inquisitors retinue
As far as vehicles go I thought the assault ram would be good for boarding the hive ship I also think drop pods can be used for boarding action (I have no proof of this I just saw another GM use them like that)
Is this enough to take out the Hive ship and any other tips on a boarding action would be nice.
Ps an ork blood axe Waaagh and a company of marines owe the Inquisitior a few favors

Sisters won't ally with Xenos. Ever. "Thou shalt not have truck with the Xenos" and all that sort of thing. Sisters would rather die, their purity and honor intact, than sully themselves with that heresy.
GK are not ideal against Xenos, most of their bag of tricks is centered on daemon-fighting.
Remember that Tyranids typically outnumber any force thousands to 1.
20 DW members is a lot of DW members... Killteams are normally 5 guys.

As mentioned, pods can't really be used as boarding torpedoes, though I suppose one could turn the Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge belly-facing to the Hive Ship and fire them that way... though, as Pods have basically no control systems or defenses, that's going to be a lot of dead Marines from the ones that miss and the ones that get taken out by the point-defense systems (spores and such mentioned previously) by the Hive Ship.

If you plan on fighting these bugs in space, you need Naval assets. Lots and lots of Naval assets.

In order to save a planet from Tyranids you need to exterminate every last organism, right down to the rippers. 5th Ed codex depicts a broken force of maybe a few hundred Nids, with a dozen Tyranid Warriors for synapse, replenishing and completely overriding the Ork held world of Gholora, including building ships to rejoin the fleet. You have to exterminate them all to be sure. In addition you have to do it before they start to build the big towers to assimilate the world, throw out spores to poison the world, so that even if you win the planet is uninhabitable, and before they start Terra-forming via ocean of Rippers

 Wulfmar wrote:
I don't see why toxins and biological warfare can't work.

If you kill them quick enough, their individual bodies won't have time to adapt - therefore you can keep re-using them.

Prolonged contact with them leads to resistance. Rapidly kill them and they won't have time to adapt.

I have to agree with Wulfmar here. This is why hellfire rounds work.

Hellfire rounds contain a mutagenic acid. It's toxic, yes, but it's also highly, highly corrosive. That's the real strength in a Hellfire round.

It's a simple flow chart.

Did you win the space battle, Y/N?

Y: Yay, you're saved.

N: You gonna get nommed.

In the Skitarii codex there is a section in the time line titled; 748.M41 rain of fire - it says a skitarii cohort commander 'turns the tide' by outputting the planets promethium production into a strata of the planets atmosphere which is then set alight by Onagers with nuetron lasers. the burning sky sets fire to all tyrannid reinforcements as they are 'podded down, burning as they go through the atmosphere and then setting fire to the 'nids already on the ground.

It says the tactic was recorded and sent to 'Accatran' where it was filed away and frogotten!

 SirDonlad wrote:
In the Skitarii codex there is a section in the time line titled; 748.M41 rain of fire - it says a skitarii cohort commander 'turns the tide' by outputting the planets promethium production into a strata of the planets atmosphere which is then set alight by Onagers with nuetron lasers. the burning sky sets fire to all tyrannid reinforcements as they are 'podded down, burning as they go through the atmosphere and then setting fire to the 'nids already on the ground.

It says the tactic was recorded and sent to 'Accatran' where it was filed away and frogotten!

Given that this would probably set every organic being on fire too, this tactic is only really viable for the admech and necrons. Since well; humans aren't exactly fireproof.

"Purify" it.

Preferably from orbit.

 Kain wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
In the Skitarii codex there is a section in the time line titled; 748.M41 rain of fire - it says a skitarii cohort commander 'turns the tide' by outputting the planets promethium production into a strata of the planets atmosphere which is then set alight by Onagers with nuetron lasers. the burning sky sets fire to all tyrannid reinforcements as they are 'podded down, burning as they go through the atmosphere and then setting fire to the 'nids already on the ground.

It says the tactic was recorded and sent to 'Accatran' where it was filed away and frogotten!

Given that this would probably set every organic being on fire too, this tactic is only really viable for the admech and necrons. Since well; humans aren't exactly fireproof.

Considering the temperatures of burning the atmosphere, not even the Admech and Necrons would survive that.

Yeah, setting the atmosphere on fire is the opposite of "saving the planet". I mean, that's basically "part 2" of the Life-Eater Virus, when all that hydrogen released by the rapid decomposition of organic matter finds a heat source... fwoosh.

 Psienesis wrote:
Yeah, setting the atmosphere on fire is the opposite of "saving the planet". I mean, that's basically "part 2" of the Life-Eater Virus, when all that hydrogen released by the rapid decomposition of organic matter finds a heat source... fwoosh.

Agreed. That's not "saving" a planet.

I think they overstate the power of the nids me, if only because humanity breeds like fething rats too.

Think about it, in the fluff it says some hive worlds have 300 billion people on them. I reckon If I had 6 weeks notice I would square them away with enough gak to pwn the nids, we have opposable thumbs. An elderly human can kill a lion with a firearm.

Conscript everyone between the age of 14-60 and give them 4 weeks rudimentary training. Build massive fortifications and order 200 billion las-guns and 50 billion rocket launchers.

Easy.

 mattyrm wrote:
I think they overstate the power of the nids me, if only because humanity breeds like fething rats too.

Think about it, in the fluff it says some hive worlds have 300 billion people on them. I reckon If I had 6 weeks notice I would square them away with enough gak to pwn the nids, we have opposable thumbs. An elderly human can kill a lion with a firearm.

Conscript everyone between the age of 14-60 and give them 4 weeks rudimentary training. Build massive fortifications and order 200 billion las-guns and 50 billion rocket launchers.

Easy.

Lions do not have guns. Tyranids do.
The problem is that the Nids have more troops. Far more troops. The Nids will never run out of troops as long as there is stuff to eat. 300 billion people provide a whole lot of food, especially since civillians with 4 weeks training make for horrible soldiers against an enemy such as the Nids. They will not hold the line against a monstrous Tyranid onslaught, they will drop their weapon and run like hell.
Besides, unless you just happen to be on a Forgeworld that produces them, there is no way you are going to get hundreds of billions of weapons within the next decade, let alone 6 weeks. Not to mention that the Nids cut of all communications, making them impossible to order and even if you had them small arms will do you little good against carnifexes and bio-titans. You are going to need tanks, artillery, food, water and all the other supplies neccessary for keeping a Hive World running along with a huge army in wartime.
The Nids have your planet completely cut off from the rest of the galaxy, they poison your atmosphere and feed on every little molecule of biomass they can get their claws on to produce an endless wave of monstrosities. Good luck.

 mattyrm wrote:
I think they overstate the power of the nids me, if only because humanity breeds like fething rats too.

Think about it, in the fluff it says some hive worlds have 300 billion people on them. I reckon If I had 6 weeks notice I would square them away with enough gak to pwn the nids, we have opposable thumbs. An elderly human can kill a lion with a firearm.

Conscript everyone between the age of 14-60 and give them 4 weeks rudimentary training. Build massive fortifications and order 200 billion las-guns and 50 billion rocket launchers.

Easy.

That's not enough when you consider that the Tyranids have mountains worth of biomass to throw at the enemy.

 SirDonlad wrote:
In the Skitarii codex there is a section in the time line titled; 748.M41 rain of fire - it says a skitarii cohort commander 'turns the tide' by outputting the planets promethium production into a strata of the planets atmosphere which is then set alight by Onagers with nuetron lasers. the burning sky sets fire to all tyrannid reinforcements as they are 'podded down, burning as they go through the atmosphere and then setting fire to the 'nids already on the ground.

It says the tactic was recorded and sent to 'Accatran' where it was filed away and frogotten!

I like your thinking but unlike the mechanicus I think the imperial citizens prefer having a livable planet

Well Ciaphas Cain has been saving a few planets. from what he describes basically you need to take out the fleet. Same is confirmed by the Ultramarines as they had a battleship detonating its warp-drive. Then you need to ceaselessly patrol and burn anything remotely Tyranid. So it can be done, its just extremely hard to do.

Crassus wrote:
Well Ciaphas Cain has been saving a few planets. from what he describes basically you need to take out the fleet. Same is confirmed by the Ultramarines as they had a battleship detonating its warp-drive. Then you need to ceaselessly patrol and burn anything remotely Tyranid. So it can be done, its just extremely hard to do.

Same with the last engagements of the 1st Aurelian Crusade- Ravens 3rd had to poison the fleet itself, then corner the little bastards to kill the majority of them, thus ending the infestation.

 RaptorusRex wrote:

Crassus wrote:
Well Ciaphas Cain has been saving a few planets. from what he describes basically you need to take out the fleet. Same is confirmed by the Ultramarines as they had a battleship detonating its warp-drive. Then you need to ceaselessly patrol and burn anything remotely Tyranid. So it can be done, its just extremely hard to do.

Same with the last engagements of the 1st Aurelian Crusade- Ravens 3rd had to poison the fleet itself, then corner the little bastards to kill the majority of them, thus ending the infestation.

Indeed, and the Last Chancers had one where they managed to scatter a Tyranid fleet. Which was noted as a non-ideal solution since they will be back.

Crassus wrote:
Well Ciaphas Cain has been saving a few planets. from what he describes basically you need to take out the fleet. Same is confirmed by the Ultramarines as they had a battleship detonating its warp-drive. Then you need to ceaselessly patrol and burn anything remotely Tyranid. So it can be done, its just extremely hard to do.

Really it's just like an post-Waaggghh! scenario. The planet, if saved, will try an destroy any feral orks they see, and attempt to eradicate any and all possible source of Ork infestation (since the fungus-theory is now thrown into ambiguity, what should be considered the source of infestation is anybody's guess). Similarly, the planets that survived a Tyranid Invasion (such as Macragge, which took years for the Ultramarines to supposedly annihilate the remnants of Hive Fleet Behemoth) would be under constant threat from potential Tyranid raids for perhaps forever. But as long as they survive and show the promise of fighting off the pocket resistance, the planets will be allowed to continue paying the Imperial tithe.

I imagine in time, the small stranded tyranids would be, like the Ymgarl genestealers, considered by the locals as just another deadly critter inhibiting their world. Of course, in this case, the officials would be well aware of the true nature of these creatures.

 lcmiracle wrote:

Crassus wrote:
Well Ciaphas Cain has been saving a few planets. from what he describes basically you need to take out the fleet. Same is confirmed by the Ultramarines as they had a battleship detonating its warp-drive. Then you need to ceaselessly patrol and burn anything remotely Tyranid. So it can be done, its just extremely hard to do.

Really it's just like an post-Waaggghh! scenario. The planet, if saved, will try an destroy any feral orks they see, and attempt to eradicate any and all possible source of Ork infestation (since the fungus-theory is now thrown into ambiguity, what should be considered the source of infestation is anybody's guess). Similarly, the planets that survived a Tyranid Invasion (such as Macragge, which took years for the Ultramarines to supposedly annihilate the remnants of Hive Fleet Behemoth) would be under constant threat from potential Tyranid raids for perhaps forever. But as long as they survive and show the promise of fighting off the pocket resistance, the planets will be allowed to continue paying the Imperial tithe.

I imagine in time, the small stranded tyranids would be, like the Ymgarl genestealers, considered by the locals as just another deadly critter inhibiting their world. Of course, in this case, the officials would be well aware of the true nature of these creatures.

Not all the stranded Nids would be small. Mind you the legend of Old One-eye. But you points stands. The Nids and Orks basically adapt the climate and many of the Nids can hibernate as Cain again shows, though the Orks doesn't do it to such extreme degrees.

The Ymgarl Genestealers are an unwelcome adaptation which is shunned by the Hive Mind, I don't know why and hate to fancy a guess.

And seeing the Nids as just another dangerous critter is a major mistake, they are feral outside the Hive Mind, sure, but under it. Then you better bring your brown pants.

Feral Tyranids are a threat that always must be kept in check.

There is always the risk that they spam synapse creatures and overrun the planet like happened in Beta Alphelion IV or Ghorala.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
I think they overstate the power of the nids me, if only because humanity breeds like fething rats too.

Think about it, in the fluff it says some hive worlds have 300 billion people on them. I reckon If I had 6 weeks notice I would square them away with enough gak to pwn the nids, we have opposable thumbs. An elderly human can kill a lion with a firearm.

Conscript everyone between the age of 14-60 and give them 4 weeks rudimentary training. Build massive fortifications and order 200 billion las-guns and 50 billion rocket launchers.

Easy.

Lions do not have guns. Tyranids do.
The problem is that the Nids have more troops. Far more troops. The Nids will never run out of troops as long as there is stuff to eat. 300 billion people provide a whole lot of food, especially since civillians with 4 weeks training make for horrible soldiers against an enemy such as the Nids. They will not hold the line against a monstrous Tyranid onslaught, they will drop their weapon and run like hell.
Besides, unless you just happen to be on a Forgeworld that produces them, there is no way you are going to get hundreds of billions of weapons within the next decade, let alone 6 weeks. Not to mention that the Nids cut of all communications, making them impossible to order and even if you had them small arms will do you little good against carnifexes and bio-titans. You are going to need tanks, artillery, food, water and all the other supplies neccessary for keeping a Hive World running along with a huge army in wartime.
The Nids have your planet completely cut off from the rest of the galaxy, they poison your atmosphere and feed on every little molecule of biomass they can get their claws on to produce an endless wave of monstrosities. Good luck.

Not to mention they can rapidly adapt to enemy tactics, species and weaponry at a genetic level, literally poisoning the very air with spores and digesting you lungs first. Become completely invulnerable to your laser pointer lasguns (as they did against the Tau, whrre Gorgon was able to adapt near immunity to that version of Pulse Ammo to the basic gaunts and Warriors).

Stop them in space is is the most effective, kill everything, patrol for years to hunt down every last bug,ship or scrap of hull.

Complete and total destruction.

Once on land it's a awful lot harder.

Crassus wrote:
Well Ciaphas Cain has been saving a few planets. from what he describes basically you need to take out the fleet. Same is confirmed by the Ultramarines as they had a battleship detonating its warp-drive. Then you need to ceaselessly patrol and burn anything remotely Tyranid. So it can be done, its just extremely hard to do.

Sadly, not everyone can afford the expensive plot armor Commisar Cain has. Though to be fair he did discover some nice bits info on the nids, and he does do pretty good in combat and it's not like he goes waltzing with carnifexes at every corner.

2BlackJack1 wrote:

Crassus wrote:
Well Ciaphas Cain has been saving a few planets. from what he describes basically you need to take out the fleet. Same is confirmed by the Ultramarines as they had a battleship detonating its warp-drive. Then you need to ceaselessly patrol and burn anything remotely Tyranid. So it can be done, its just extremely hard to do.

Sadly, not everyone can afford the expensive plot armor Commisar Cain has. Though to be fair he did discover some nice bits info on the nids, and he does do pretty good in combat and it's not like he goes waltzing with carnifexes at every corner.

Colonel Schaeffer does that with his plasma pistol.

And Cain has gone up against ver bad stuff to come out alive, utter badass, or Marty Stu. I go by the former though.

The point is, that you can win against the Nids, but it would be really difficult.