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I've been playing orks for quite some time. And as much as i love the codex, there are some ballance problems within the book. For example, i do love walkers but we all know how mediocre-at-best they are. Just can't bring a walker for a footslogging army - and it should be the exact place they'd shine. Also, i'm not quite happy with how flashgitz and snikrot kommandoes perform. I often run min squad of kommandoes with rokkits but it's just not exactly what i depict they should do on the field. And a large squad with snikrot is pretty meh. Relics are interesting but the current restrictions of one per character almost always exclude such cool stuff like Dead Shiny Shoota. And there's an obvious problem of dominating DLS cause it's simply too good to pass by.
Besides, some special rules are not thought out well enough imo.
So, here is a list of changes i'd apply to Codex: Orks to make our lists even more variable and internal ballance even better! WARNING! There might be a large number of changes

Mob rule:


Wargear, Equipment, Vehicle Equipment, Gifts


LOW


HQ:


Troops:


Elites:


Heavy Support


Fast Attack


Other stuff coming soon. Make me know what you think about the changes?

Other thought, coming from Dawn of War II :

A unit of Tankbustas may upgrade their Rokkit Launchas for Rokkit Barrages at 2 pts/model. To declare a Rokkit Barrage, select a single Ork model as the firing point. The attack is Range 24, S8/AP3, Heavy X/Blast/Barrage, where X is the number of Tankbustas in the unit divided by 3. (For example, in a unit of 10 Tankbustas, the attack is Heavy 3/Blast/Barrage). This prevents shooting normally for the turn.

Giving Kommando Nobz special wargear would rock too.

Back in Codx: Armageddon, the Kult of Speed got a lot of toys too. I wonder what it would be like to have AV 12 one-shot forcefields for your vehicles as a revival of the old forcefield idea. Or Megablastas having Blast again...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like the Grabbin' Klaw rule by the way! Other than 10-pt Burnaboyz (I disagree with a fair bit of the Eldarification of 4th Orks), most stuff seems alright.

I would probably make the Chukka a S3 AP6 large blast though, and allow Buggies/Dreads to take them

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Other thought, coming from Dawn of War II :

A unit of Tankbustas may upgrade their Rokkit Launchas for Rokkit Barrages at 2 pts/model. To declare a Rokkit Barrage, select a single Ork model as the firing point. The attack is Range 24, S8/AP3, Heavy X/Blast/Barrage, where X is the number of Tankbustas in the unit divided by 3. (For example, in a unit of 10 Tankbustas, the attack is Heavy 3/Blast/Barrage). This prevents shooting normally for the turn.

Giving Kommando Nobz special wargear would rock too.

Back in Codx: Armageddon, the Kult of Speed got a lot of toys too. I wonder what it would be like to have AV 12 one-shot forcefields for your vehicles as a revival of the old forcefield idea. Or Megablastas having Blast again...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like the Grabbin' Klaw rule by the way! Other than 10-pt Burnaboyz (I disagree with a fair bit of the Eldarification of 4th Orks), most stuff seems alright.

I would probably make the Chukka a S3 AP6 large blast though, and allow Buggies/Dreads to take them

What do you think is the correct price for burnaboyz without ap3? - changed to 12 ppm for now. And what do you think about nobz and flashgitz? What about Snikrot and Badrukk?

I missed the fact that you made the Burna a regular flamethrower and removed the cutting torch. It was one of the few things unique about them alas.

I'm not sure how to go about working on Burnas tbh. I remember in 3rd that the Power Weapon mode had the early version of Armourbane so you could also slice open vehicles. I feel Burnas should be 20 pts, 4+ armor which increases to 3+ vs Flame-based attacks (Flamers/Pyromancy/etc). Their tactical niche is sort of "ehh" otherwise.

80 pts is far more reasonable for the Kaptin. Still not a great sell (Moar Meganobz) but you won't be laughed off the battle.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I missed the fact that you made the Burna a regular flamethrower and removed the cutting torch. It was one of the few things unique about them alas.

I'm not sure how to go about working on Burnas tbh. I remember in 3rd that the Power Weapon mode had the early version of Armourbane so you could also slice open vehicles. I feel Burnas should be 20 pts, 4+ armor which increases to 3+ vs Flame-based attacks (Flamers/Pyromancy/etc). Their tactical niche is sort of "ehh" otherwise.

80 pts is far more reasonable for the Kaptin. Still not a great sell (Moar Meganobz) but you won't be laughed off the battle.

I've given him preferred enemy. And i'd tweak the formation with him and 2 squads of Gitz. The master crafted bonus is a pain to roll off. I think, the formation should allow them to reroll an ap dice. And that's it. Allready made them more expensive, but more durable with 'eavy armor. Besides, the - roll ap before choosing a target is what they've always needed to become more viable.

I really like most of the changes you made, especially regarding the differentiation between Painbosses and Painboyz.

There are however, a few quibbles I have regarding some of the other changes. Why the increase from 13 ppm for tankbustas to 16? I felt that 13 was the sweet spot given that rokkit launchas are only a 5 point upgrade now (meaning with a boy statline it would be 11 now) and I think 2 points per man for tank hunter seems about appropriate. While we no longer have to deal with the old version of Glory Hogs, they are still fragile dakka-platforms. Perhaps maybe 14 ppm at most? Or if you want it to be 16 it would be fitting for them to be included with 'eavy armour base to represent them attaching tank armour to their bodies as trophies.

Also, with regards to the Killchoppa, I feel like it would be a viable choice if it was just AP3 base and kept the previous normal rending and insta-kill rules. This way we get a weapon that can strike at initiative and still ignore the armour of the plethora of 3+ save foes we face against while still having potential utility against 2+ save foes. It certainly gives it a better niche weapon suited for zoomy platforms like a biker warboss.

My thoughts:

First and foremost, make mob rule affect fear tests as well as pinning/morale.

Then make it count wounds, not models, which might make it actually useful for squads like nobz and deffkoptas.

Lastly, make it count wounds involved in the same close combat, so that multiple trukk boy squads can bolster each other's mob rule results. This would make assaulting trukk mobs actually useful, instead of a bunch of separate units that will break and run when they inevitably lose combat and fail morale.

Why nerf burnas? I say give them what their fluff says they have and add (S3/4) armorbane to it in melee. Or you can go the screamer route and make it armorbane, AP2, but 1 attack.

I'd love to see painboys treated like meks are now in some way. It would be great to not have to waste a HQ slot on giving one squad FNP. That being said, all other armies thus far have gotten a similar treatment (like the blood angel chalice bearer), so I don't expect to see it happen.

Some cool stuff so far, but I'm going to just be waiting for some fun with the walkers

I'd love to see something similar to "the end is nigh" rule for Flagallents in Warhammer Fantasy Empire.

Remove 1-3 orks to give Hatred for the round.

Yep, a lot of stuff can be done to mob rule. Especially with fear and alike. I know, it's annoying that orkses are currently the only army that's really affected by fear but i don't want to totally invalidate this rule. Maybe just give +1 ld for fear tests if there's at least one model with 'ere we go? I'd not want to make it more complicated than it is now - counting of all involved models and such cause they're still separate squads with separate nob bosses.

Tankbustas - i feel they're too good for 13 pts. Tankhunter meltabombs are not a joke. Rokkits are great too. Their only problem is their fragility but that's solved pretty easilly - especially with FW. Besides, i've made bomb squigs straight s8 ap3 ignore cover - can target anything. That's a huge improvement! What do you think about it?

On the second thought about a painboss, i think i'll lower his cost to 65 with one mandatory grot orderly. Just don't want to make footsloggas less viable compared to buffed up mech guyz with ramshakkle. What do you think about Ramshakkle to most our vehicles anywayz?

Burnas...that can be interesting to give them armorbane back. However, with current tankbustas and meltabombs, i feel the role will get confused. Or we'll simply get too much mellee anti-armor all around. PK, meltabombs, saws and now armorbane flamers. I do like the idea of making them able to perform a 1 attack ap2 strike. But without armorbane. Even though it contradicts fluff a bit, but we should think about our enemies too!
There's a widespread idea of burna boyz getting able to use a torrent version of their flamers. But to not make it OTT, it should be a lower str torrent flamer. Like s2 ap6 Gets Hot! to make it more situational and risky than a normal one but useful nonetheless. On the other hand, we allready have tons of anti-infantry.
Can stick to str5 ap2, unwieldy, 1 attack but not prevent the flamer shots. This way, with a cost of 13-15 ppm they will be somewhat fine.

I'm not sure about ap3 choppa. But i guess, ID and rending on a 5-6 would be too powerful. What others think about an ap3 killchoppa that rends and id on a 6? Would it need a price increase?

Added Walker skwadrons, Grotsnik and changed nobs a bit. I do want to see footslogging nobz from time to time. Think that Cybork nobz can be this footslogging version.

I am not a fan of the price and HP change on the orkanauts. The 5 HPs make them feel like more than just a walker landraider. With this in mind they need a price reduction as they are with 5 HPs as they still blow up too often to ap 1 and 2. As a squadron they would have more survivability and the 1 less HP wouldn't matter so much but that would be if you took the squadron.

On their own they need that 5th HP in addition to a little extra customizability.

The rampage upgrade would be cool for the gorkanaut but depending on your squad size might just be overkill or useless. For example how often would a full size squadron (10 models) get the special rule. Their shooting phase alone would take most units under 10 models. If you ran it as 1 Gork 1 dread and 2-3 kans then this rule would be a huge benefit and almost wipe whatever they hit.

I want to know what kind of changes you would make to the orkanauts if the squadron rule wasn't taken into account?

I'd make it a superheavy akin to knights and increase it's price. Or make it plain cheaper. Cause currently, the only real place the walkers can do something is dreadmob. And even than, they're too fragile and slow. Kanz and Naughts are overpriced. There's a problem with huge expensive vehicles. They blow up or get immobilized. Lots of stuff plain ignores their armor. Vehicle damage table becomes more problematic the more your vehicle costs.

If a melta blows up a buggie - no big deal. If it blows up a deff dread - well, it's what melta's designed for after all. But when it blows up an almost 300 pt vehicle (morkanaught with a KFF, for example), you start questioning yourself if your huge expensive vehicle is really worth the points if it gets blown up every now and than by stuff that costs WAY less than it.

What do you think about walkers? How would you change them, if you would ofc.

Definitely price reduction on the orkanauts. and this has been brought up so many times already but they really should have the invincible behemoth special rule...without being a superheavy though. this would protect them from easy explosions and getting immobilized. An immobile ork walker is just as bad as a destroyed one. Even having 6 guns doesn't make up for the immobilized result as we hit on 5's. Kans are too pricey as well. Yes they made the upgrades cheaper but they nerfed the klaw so bad that they came out worse.

With the gorkanaut maybe have some formation to buff WS or an upgrade somehow. A Banner buff similar to the Morkanauts KFF that gives units within X +1 WS. I play against daemons alot and the bloodthirster ruins my day with WS 10. It seems i can't ever hit on 5's.

@koooaei

The Bomb Squig change was a nice touch. I'll admit that the buff with meltabombs rather than armourbane krak grenades should come with a cost increase, but if they are in the 16 point range, being more expensive than a marine, I feel they should really come with 'eavy armour base, if only so they can survive against explodes! results from their ride being blown up.

Also regarding Grotsnik, I felt his points cost was already too high from where he originally started and I consider it to be still too prohibitive even if he gets rage, given that he lost rampage in return. For him to remain at his points cost I feel he should either let one Ork infantry unit of your choice get cybork bodies for free or give him back his old ability to give out CB to any Ork infantry model in the army for 5 points a pop.

With regards to the Mork/Gorkanauts, I have to agree with mhalko1 and say that giving them Invincible Behemoth or buffing their main guns a bit would go a long way to making them viable compared to the plethora of MC's out in the meta nowadays. Making the KMK on the Morkanaut a large blast or having the Gorkanaut's gun become twin-linked or rending would make it so they were less of a glorified Mek Gun-esque platform on a slow walker body.

Any ideas of what you would do with Boss Zagstruk? Personally I'd place him into the Fast-Attack slot like Snikrot is in the elite slot and make it so he didn't take a FOC slot so long as you take a unit of stormboyz. Then change it so his Vulcha Klaws are a permanent pair of Power Klaws that gives him a S8 AP2 HoW which does D3 hits rather than 1 when using his jump pack move for an assault. Bring him back up to Ld9 and the old rule he had regarding summary execution and he'd provide a solid core for the very vulnerable stormboyz units. This would bring his cost back up to his old price in the 4th ed. dex but its well worth it given that the pretty much has no utility as an HQ choice in the dex short of providing the Bellowing Tyrant Warlord trait which you can just get through Warboss Grukk.

For the love of good don't change DLS, its the best thing in the ork codex, and why the mad dok nerfs he is the best IC in the game as he is.

Well, i just wanted to incorporate the naught into a walker squadron. Anywayz, how much do you think it would cost for an invincible behemoth naught? Don't you like Rampage for the squadron idea?

As for tankbustas, well, they do punch way above their point cost currently. Like lobbas (will cover them lately). That comes from my gaming experience. Tankbustas are simply good al around as an offensive unit. They can shoot tankhunter rokkits, they can obliterate pretty much any vehicle or mc in mellee with melta bombs, they have a free VP if they destroy a tank first - and it's generally not so hard to acomplish. I'm sure that they ARE undercosted currently. I hink that free hammers and much better bomb squigs can easilly justify their new price.
So, a squad of 10 with 3 bomb squigs would cost 175 pts now. Up from 145 of their codex incarnation. Not a huge difference. Besides, squigs are now way better. I think the price tag of 16 ppm is right for them. Now 16 ppm codex burnas are nowhere near right.

BTW, what do you think about Burnas and Nobz with proposed changes now?

Grotsnik - well, first of all, his rampage ability was only useful on small elite units (that imo don't need it allready - nobz, meganobz). The price tag is considered too high by most ork players comparing him to a regular painboss. Even though, i do belive that he's costed somewhat right due to being an extra invaluable pk, unique fearless which we can get only with a BBP from another detachment, and almost-boss statline.
As for now, take into consideration that he got: 3 oilers, Rage over Rampage - means 1 more s9 ap2 attack, 5++ over useless 6+++. He opens up a slotless painboy. It's actually quite some buff and not a nerf. And regular painbosses went up 15 pts. I'm starting to think that 160 is actually a bit too low

Zagstruk will be fast attack akin to Snikrot and Badrukk. Regarding his changes, i think there are a few ways. Either return his ability to DS + Charge - but withthe return of the old WAAAGH! it'd be an almost guaranteed charge the turn they arrive if they don't mishap which is too good even if he'd cost around 100 pt. I'd make him actually buff his squad somehow.
Currently i run stormboyz in almost every list cause they're good with footsloggas. I run a squad of ~10 with pk, bp nob and they pay off most of the time. But they are effective only due to their small squad (for ork standards). I can hide behind terrain or a truck and threaten the enemy with an enormous charge reach on WAAAGH!
I've run a special formation with Zaggy and it was quite underwhelming. Yes, they deepstrike and are pretty fast. But they're a bunch of 9 pt boyz! And HOW is pretty much useless for them if you want to play more conservatively and not drop at your enemy's squad ready to charge with what remains - if anything does really.
I think that he could give straight buffs for his squad. Like +d6 movement. Or some USR. Could make them able to use JP both in movement and in assault like ravenguard CT. Don't know yet. Summary execution can be fine too.

And the change to DLS is exactly cause it IS the best artifact. In fact, it's so good, it surpasses everything else. It needs some toning down.

Love the changes to flash gitz. I miss having heavy armor on them.

I feel if eldar do it on a 2+ we could get ramshackle on a 4+ this 6+, or even your suggested 5+, is a huge Nerf from what we had.

I like painboys being like meks, but mad doc was cool how he was.

Overall I like your vision. Fair, but stronger. Not like this the new fanboy wet dreams for eldar from gw.

@koooaie

I think the changes to Nobz are appropriate, the upgrade options almost feel like an interesting twist on the doctrines that oomie veterans which is a nice touch. Personally it's always been the lack of CC weapon variety that has been my issue with Ork CC units since its typically just a toss-up between PK or BC. Perhaps include a rokkit pack option for 3-4ppm? Ever since DoW2 Retribution's Storm Nobz upgrade option I've been fascinated with the idea of super-speedy jump-pack nobz. It would give a less resilient but speedy alternative to the much more expensive Biker Nobz for lower point games.

Burna Boyz are in a weird position. As Orks we don't exactly lack for anti-infantry but at the same time the majority of our anti-infantry comes in the form of mass dakka or piles of CC attacks. They provide a very niche role (similar to Burna-Bommers) of eliminating light to medium infantry dug into cover that either has some form of cover-boosting gear (camo cloaks, etc.) or has defensive grenades and higher initiative that can neuter our attempts to overwhelm them in CC. I agree with you not gaining armourbane on their attacks since it confuses their role too much, but I do think that they should have a combined flamer option like others have mentioned that increases in strength depending on how many burnas are in the unit. Personally, I would make it so that they could combine their flamer templates to create this:

Range: Template S: X+4 AP: 4 , Special Rules: Torrent, Assault X

X is the number of every 5 burna boyz in the unit that is firing as part of this shooting attack. If the entire unit chooses to fire this way they may not overwatch the following turn.

This way it maxes out at S7 which requires both a heft points investment in a full burna boy squad which pretty much requires a transport of some kind (non-dedicated if you want 3 shots of S7 AP4 torrent). And I capped it at AP4 since there's no reason for it to become the new baleflamer.

Regarding Grotsnik, I agree that his Rampage rule was fairly limited given the composition of most Ork armies but regardless of how limited its utility was it still was something he brought to the table as a potential force multiplier. The slot he unlocks for an extra Painboy, while certainly nice, doesn't change the fact that you still have to pay for the extra Painboy and Painbosses are much cheaper for that option. As an extra PK and Fearless provider he's not bad, but at 160 points you could easily have both Warboss and a Painboss, and the Warboss brings arguably more utility with the inclusion of the WAAAGH! rule and S10 PK attacks rather than S8-9. To justify his current points cost IMO, either allow his Rage special rule to pass on to the rest of his unit or provide the CB option to other units as I've previously mentioned. Also, while grot orderlies are nice, I don't see them as that big of a bonus, at least not one close enough to overlook the fact that he costs 160 points.

Actually, if mad doc, while alive, made it so all fnp rolls were at a+1 it would be amazing! And make him well worth his points.

Or grot orderlies could do that for each pain boy... Maybe they cost 15-20 pts each and change that pain boys fnp 4+?

With regards to the invincible behemoth on morkanaut and gorkanaut I believe it should be incorporated at 0-5 points. Those walkers are severely overcosted for their use and effectiveness. 310 for a fully upgraded morkanaut that blows up on 1 lucky melta shot (this has happen way too many times to me for it to be argued). So factor in the current need for a price reduction and add IB it should come back to about the same. The wraith knight is 300 as a gargantuan with 6 wounds and possible D weaponry. IB would help and against them in particular anything but a 6 they have a chance of surviving.

Now on to Zagstruk. This might upset people a bit but I fully believe Zagstruk isn't meant to be taken in normal games of 40k. I'm sorry but it's true. However his use triples in a game with a planetstrike mission. Take his formation with 3 full squads. They all deepstrike and only scatter 1 d6. because of this planetstrike also let's you charge when you arrive from deepstrike if you can. If they come in on a turn you intend to waagh! Then they can run 2d6 and then charge another 2d6. 3 units of 30 boys doing this can wipe 3 units on the turn they come in. Unfortunately the way he is currently he isn't too helpful in a regular mission. :/

Move Lootas back into Elite, give them access to Git Findaz

Have Orkimedes start work on some kind of S9+ weapon with whatever AP (i don't care) and make it cheap enough to equip some kind of unit with it. how about giving Gretchin squads access to basic artillery, not mek gunz, but the old ones like Zzap and Kannon and Lobbaz? Make taking a gretchin squad worth it besides as a Tax.

To be honest, i think that Grotsnik is allready worth his points for a full 30-strong squad even in regular games of 1500+ where you go for 2-d detachment. He feels a bit overpriced, yes. But making him cost cheaper is not really a good idea cause he'd otherwise be an auto-include instead of a painboss that i've allready made more expensive!
I think that within the context of the new changes, he is good even for 160 pts. Want to go cheap fnp without other bonuses? Fine - pay 65 pts for a painboss. Want fearless, extra PK and more durable Character in there? Here you go, Mr. Grotsnik with his 6(!) s9 ap2 ws5 attacks on the charge with t5, 3 wounds, 4+ 5++ and a bunch of grot orderlies. His 160 price tag is actually a steal.

4+ fnp or better? Would it be fun for our opponent to face another decurion in face of orks?

Stormnobz are an interesting idea. But wouldn't they compete with regular stormboyz and trucknobz? Don't think that 3-4 pt for rokkit packs is fair for 16 pt nobz as it's allready a 3 pt upgrade for regular boyz.

BTW, what do you think about nob wrekkaz and cybork nobz?

About lootas. I don't think that lootas belong to elites at all. They used to when the were not an AC platform. Back in the day, they used to actually loot some stuff and use it - like plasma guns, bolters and even sniper rifles. Now they simply don't match fluff. Or at least they don't match their name.
Won't lie - i'm not a fan of lootas and even since 5-th i've tried to play without them, even though they were considered close to mandatory in every ork list. That's only because of this contradiction. Current lootas are not lootas. They're deffgunnaz. That's it. If i'm gona change lootas - they'd be renamed to be deffgunnaz. OR they could get access to more weapons. Like devastators. Yep, why not simply give them access to heavy bolters, AC, Rokkit launchers and lazcannons. What do you think? It might be a problem from a modelling perspective, however.

Anyone else really hate mob rule? Its not just that you lose Orks, thats not the problem - its the fact that you roll so many dice for an effect that is either extremely minor or extremely major, leading to a lot of tedium and a lot of swingy results.

Say a unit takes 25% casualties from shooting. You roll 2d6 and fail leadership. You roll 1d6 on the chart, and then re-roll it because you got something crappy. Then you roll 1d6, and then that many d6's wounding on 4+. Then you roll 6+ saves and then often a 5+ FNP.

Thats far too many dice! And the result is either a loss of a negligible amount of boyz or the entire unit is completely fethed.

What about something like this - if they fail a morale test, they take wounds equal to the amount the failed the test by, and then pass the test?

It changes it from "lol randum gak happens every turn" to "Orks are still fearless but beat themselves up to get it", and it takes way less dice - roll 2d6, take armour and FNP, test is passed. You could even give the hits AP6 (like choppas) so that in boyz mobs you don't bother with that roll, but MegaNobz etc still get the benefit as they should

Edit:

Regarding deff dreads, haven't used them in 7th but last edition, even against relatively nice armies they just die en route to the target, and when they get there, they swing at I2 and die before they get to attack! The skorchas were by far the best asset on the deff dread, and thats just sad.

It would take far too many sweeping rule changes to 'fix' melee walkers as a whole, so perhaps just make them tougher and cheaper - the 5++ rolling scrap pile rule from DM and a steep points decrease would be a good start. Then maybe up their attacks and make the CCW add ons *way* cheaper, and finally allow them in squads and as a slot which is not filled with all our best gak - ie like the dread mob troop options. They'd be a bit like boyz then - most die on the way, but the few that actually get there do so much damage.

Like honestly, if they were 60pts, 1-5 per unit and troops w/ a big mek would people still be complaining that they suck? Only one has to make it to earn back the points and I think thats the mentality the Ork codex should live by!

I've had similar thoughts about lootas not being lootas.

I think that deffguns should be added to mek guns as a 5pt upgrade over the kannon.

What is currently lootas would be 9pts/model, and would come with kannons instead of deffguns. They can then replace them with any upgrade for the mek guns, other than lobbas and trakor kannons, for the normal prices.

The actual, fluffy, lootas would be 35pts for a mob of 5 boys. They can then take up to 10 more for 6pts/model. They can take any upgrade a normal boys mob can, except that they get meks instead of a nob. When they kill a unit in close combat they can steal D3 weapons from them (the unit can, not D3 weapons each).

Good ideas. Personally I think Killa Kanz should be 30 points at most. And all you need to do to the nauts is change their unit type to Super Heavy Walker, Assault Vehicle.

And Stompa needs some love too.

Imagine the house keeping issues with "Lootas" when they can steal D3 weapons though. Wait did they have a lascannon and 3 flamers or did they have just hte 3 flamers or.... It would become a pain in the butt, and as far as WYSIWYG it would completely throw it off.

True.

Maybe just let them take items from the melee and ranged weapon lists from other armies.

Eh, there's a problem with kanz, dreads, naughts and squadron rules. As i get it right, the pens are resolved against the closest vehicle all at once! So, it means that if we have a squadron of 1 kan and 1 naught, a bunch of s6 shots resolved against a kan can penetrate a naught. Or am i wrong?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Imagine the house keeping issues with "Lootas" when they can steal D3 weapons though. Wait did they have a lascannon and 3 flamers or did they have just hte 3 flamers or.... It would become a pain in the butt, and as far as WYSIWYG it would completely throw it off.

what if instead of a variety of looted weapons, they get d3 "kustomized skrap" tokens that they can use to upgrade their stock weapon +1S -1AP. Each model may only have a max of 2 tokens.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Imagine the house keeping issues with "Lootas" when they can steal D3 weapons though. Wait did they have a lascannon and 3 flamers or did they have just hte 3 flamers or.... It would become a pain in the butt, and as far as WYSIWYG it would completely throw it off.

Been toying with clan rules that could work here. Bad Moonz and Deathskullz share a "shiny gubbins" chart. Bad Moons buy rolls on the chart at the start of the game, Deathskullz get them whenever a unit dies within 6" or if they interact with a wrecked vehicle or some such.

Still working on the actual contents of the chart but the basic idea is small buffs to guns and armour

 koooaei wrote:
Eh, there's a problem with kanz, dreads, naughts and squadron rules. As i get it right, the pens are resolved against the closest vehicle all at once! So, it means that if we have a squadron of 1 kan and 1 naught, a bunch of s6 shots resolved against a kan can penetrate a naught. Or am i wrong?

If thats true I absolutely refuse to play it that way