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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 16:46:37
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/04/27/professor-fails-his-entire-class-and-his-university-intervenes?utm_source=slate&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=partner
There ain't no punishment like collective punishment.
Failing the Entire Class
April 27, 2015
By
Scott Jaschik
Irwin Horwitz had had enough. His students, he thought, weren't performing well academically and they were being disruptive, rude and dishonest. So he sent the students in his strategic management class an email:
"Since teaching this course, I have caught and seen cheating, been told to 'chill out,' 'get out of my space,' 'go back and teach,' [been] called a 'fething moron' to my face, [had] one student cheat by signing in for another, one student not showing up but claiming they did, listened to many hurtful and untrue rumors about myself and others, been caught between fights between students…."
Horwitz said he would fail every single student. "None of you, in my opinion, given the behavior in this class, deserve to pass, or graduate to become an Aggie, as you do not in any way embody the honor that the university holds graduates should have within their personal character. It is thus for these reasons why I am officially walking away from this course. I am frankly and completely disgusted. You all lack the honor and maturity to live up to the standards that Texas A&M holds, and the competence and/or desire to do the quality work necessary to pass the course just on a grade level…. I will no longer be teaching the course, and all are being awarded a failing grade."
The same day Horwitz sent a similar email to the senior administrators of the university telling them what he had done, and predicting (correctly) that students would protest and claim he was being unfair. The students are "your problem now," Horwitz wrote.
The university has said that Horwitz's failing grades will not stand.
A spokesman for the university said via email that "all accusations made by the professor about the students' behavior in class are also being investigated and disciplinary action will be taken" against students found to have behaved inappropriately. The spokesman said that one cheating allegation referenced by Horwitz has already been investigated and that a student committee cleared the student of cheating.
However, the spokesman said that the across-the-board F grades, which were based on Horwitz's views of students' academic performance and behavior, will all be re-evaluated. "No student who passes the class academically will be failed. That is the only right thing to do," he said.
In an interview, Horwitz said that the class was his worst in 20 years of college-level teaching. The professor, who is new to Galveston, relocated (to a non-tenure-track position) because his wife holds an academic job in Houston, and they have had to work hard to find jobs in the same area. He stressed that the students' failings were academic as well as behavioral. Most, he said, couldn't do a "break-even analysis" in which students were asked to consider a product and its production costs per unit, and determine the production levels needed to reach a profit.
In most of his career, he said, he has rarely awarded grades of F except for academic dishonesty. He said he has never failed an entire class before, but felt he had no choice after trying to control the class and complaining to administrators at the university.
Students have complained that they need this class to graduate, and Horwitz said that based on the academic and behavioral issues in class, they do not deserve to graduate with degrees in business fields (the majors for which the course is designed and required).
Response to his actions has been intense. Horwitz said that he has received (and he shared) emails that were quite critical and mocked him, and others that praised him for taking a stand.
Asked if the decision to fail every one of the 30-plus enrollees was fair to every student, Horwitz said that "a few" students had not engaged in misbehavior, and he said that those students were also the best academic performers. Horwitz said he offered to the university that he would continue to teach just those students, but was told that wasn't possible, so he felt he had no choice but to fail everyone and leave the course.
Faculty Rights
Horwitz said he believes his academic freedom has been violated in this case, because the university is changing the grades he has assigned.
Henry Reichman, chair of American Association of University Professors' Committee on Academic Freedom and Tenure and a professor emeritus of history at California State University at East Bay, said that faculty members generally do have the right to assign grades, but there are some extreme circumstances where this may be limited. He said, for example, that if a college found that a professor was failing students for clearly inappropriate reasons, the institution would be correct to intervene.
Reichman stressed that he didn't know the facts at play in the Galveston case. But one principle that is important, he said, is that a panel of professors should be sorting out the situation and making any final determinations.
It should be the right of a professor to grade on behavioral issues and not strictly academic ones, whether that means failing a student who engages in academic misconduct or taking off points for people who miss class or turn in work late. So he said he was troubled by the university saying that none of the behavioral issues could be legitimate reasons for failing a student. But Reichman said faculty members should always be clear about such policies. He also said he was bothered by any collective punishment in which a student is failed for the actions of other students.
When Students Misbehave and Professors Walk
When faculty members take action because students have crossed lines (frequently involving technology), the conduct of everyone is debated. In some of the most talked-about cases, collective punishment was an issue.
In 2010, two professors who taught an introductory engineering course in chemistry at Ryerson University in Canada jointly adopted a policy in which they vowed to make tests more difficult, to encourage students to pay attention. And the professors said that after three warnings about disruptions such as cell phone discussions and movies playing on laptops, the professors would walk out of class -- and students would have to learn the rest of that day's material themselves. The professors abandoned the policy amid much debate.
In 2008, a philosophy professor at Syracuse University sparked a controversy with his policy of leaving class immediately, without covering material that would have been discussed, if he caught a student texting or reading the newspaper.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0007/06/13 17:32:10
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I actually agree with the first teacher there... It is sad that the administration, despite his reasoning, has said his failing grades wouldn't stand...
So, what the administration is now saying is that it is completely OK to cheat in an academic environment!? the Rudeness thing, ehh.. that's whatever, not everyone has a wonderful Leave it to Beaver upbringing... he should man up about that... But I do take great offense to people who cheat on tests or cheat by having someone else do work for them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 19:51:08
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Ensis Ferrae wrote:I actually agree with the first teacher there... It is sad that the administration, despite his reasoning, has said his failing grades wouldn't stand...
So, what the administration is now saying is that it is completely OK to cheat in an academic environment!? the Rudeness thing, ehh.. that's whatever, not everyone has a wonderful Leave it to Beaver upbringing... he should man up about that... But I do take great offense to people who cheat on tests or cheat by having someone else do work for them
The students who cheated should be failed, but there were several he admitted "did not cheat and performed well academically and behaviorally". Its not fair to punish all for the actions of the majority.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 19:59:09
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Asked if the decision to fail every one of the 30-plus enrollees was fair to every student, Horwitz said that "a few" students had not engaged in misbehavior, and he said that those students were also the best academic performers. Horwitz said he offered to the university that he would continue to teach just those students, but was told that wasn't possible, so he felt he had no choice but to fail everyone and leave the course.
at this point he looses all my sympathy.
If he wanted to make a point and walk away (leaving everybody without grades, and leaving the administration to sort things out) it would be sad but understandable,
but failing anybody who was academically (and behaviourally) passing/able to pass is inexcusable
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 20:16:20
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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You can't fail everyone because only a portion are doing bad stuff. Its YOUR job to grade everyone individually. Grade everyone according to their work. My guess is it wasn't even a majority of the class, just a fairly large chunk.
This is also why I loath teachers who have graders do grading. Unless its a multiple choice, T/F, or a simple short answer question, someone who isn't the appointed professor isn't qualified to do the grading.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 20:21:05
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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jreilly89 wrote:
The students who cheated should be failed, but there were several he admitted "did not cheat and performed well academically and behaviorally". Its not fair to punish all for the actions of the majority.
I originally saw this story on another site, and according to that article, those who had performed honorably and were passing, were going to pass. So I guess ultimately the gesture was "feth it! I'm outta here... I ain't teachin no more this [semester, quarter, trimester, etc] and your grades are what they are"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 20:25:56
Subject: Re:YOU ALL FAIL!
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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It should be the right of a professor to grade on behavioral issues and not strictly academic ones, whether that means failing a student who engages in academic misconduct or taking off points for people who miss class or turn in work late.
Wait, what? I get failing a student for academic misconduct, and taking off points for late work, but general behavior issues are matters for the administration.
Grey Templar wrote:
This is also why I loath teachers who have graders do grading. Unless its a multiple choice, T/F, or a simple short answer question, someone who isn't the appointed professor isn't qualified to do the grading.
I'm smarter than 2 of the 3 professors I assisted, and was a more attentive grader too. Lots of times it is better to have a TA or proctor grading, than a professor who is focused on publishing.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/01 20:34:56
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 20:41:24
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Fixture of Dakka
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Grey Templar wrote:
This is also why I loath teachers who have graders do grading. Unless its a multiple choice, T/F, or a simple short answer question, someone who isn't the appointed professor isn't qualified to do the grading.
You do know a ton of Adjunct Professors have zero credentials for actual teaching or teaching degrees... And a lot of professors are awful teachers, Great scientists and researchers, awful teachers. They are simply "Subject Matter Experts."
It is not uncommon to have people with no more than a 4 year bachelor being an adjunct professor teaching 100 level classes.
So I would argue a lot of professors are not qualified to do the grading or even the teaching if one assumes you need special skills to actually teach (which is why we have higher standards for teachers and specialized degrees)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 20:42:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 21:15:25
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Adjunct Professors.... the slave labor of academia!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 22:15:09
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Stubborn Hammerer
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This isn't about the students, not really.
It's about a teacher who is running away from a (presumably unreasonably) tough class and taking his ball with him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 22:45:23
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Scrabb wrote:This isn't about the students, not really.
It's about a teacher who is running away from a (presumably unreasonably) tough class and taking his ball with him.
Sounds like the seniors won't back him up. I've seen it at schools and colleges. Pupils slack off work or just cut corners and their work is abysmal or actually in breach of rules such as copying and similar. Ideally you'd just kick them off the course but those running the school/college won't have it because bums on seats means money. Instead they just blame the staff for not getting good enough results, even though they disempower them from doing anything to prune out those wasting everyone's time.
That sounds more like what's going on here. He's in the wrong trying to fail everyone, because that impacts good students. But I can easily see a situation where he's been told he has to get good grades from students and that if they're cheating and bunking off lessons, it's his fault for not motivating them, rather than supporting him in taking disciplinary action or removing them from the course.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 23:10:13
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ensis Ferrae wrote:So, what the administration is now saying is that it is completely OK to cheat in an academic environment!?
From my experience, kinda.
I am a part-time lecturer at a state university and my first quarter teaching I encountered multiple plagiarizers (copying wholesale from blogs  instructors have Google too, kids!) and my department chair basically shrugged his shoulders when I came to him with evidence of the cheating. Basically, I was told that due to the type of assignment that was plagiarized, which was essentially low value graded take home responses to the class readings, that I should let the issue slide and simply issue a warning as well as give no credit for the copied assignment. Had the plagiarized work been a major essay, or a test, well, sure, something could be done, but as it stood at the time reporting the plagiarizers would have been a lot effort for little payoff. I tried arguing that if a student would plagiarize a low value assignment in a freshmen level course they would probably do the same thing for higher value assignments in other courses, but my chair just shrugged.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 02:01:37
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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nkelsch wrote: Grey Templar wrote:
This is also why I loath teachers who have graders do grading. Unless its a multiple choice, T/F, or a simple short answer question, someone who isn't the appointed professor isn't qualified to do the grading.
You do know a ton of Adjunct Professors have zero credentials for actual teaching or teaching degrees... And a lot of professors are awful teachers, Great scientists and researchers, awful teachers. They are simply "Subject Matter Experts."
It is not uncommon to have people with no more than a 4 year bachelor being an adjunct professor teaching 100 level classes.
So I would argue a lot of professors are not qualified to do the grading or even the teaching if one assumes you need special skills to actually teach (which is why we have higher standards for teachers and specialized degrees)
Maybe, but they're still the professor. That means they are the ones who should be grading the class.
Even a subject matter expert is more qualified to teach than anyone else. usually they're actually more qualified than someone who has an actual teaching degree because they have actual experience.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/02 02:02:05
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 02:44:50
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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You don't need a degree in education to be a professor, and the vast majority of professors, with the exception of professors of education, don't have education degrees.
There is nothing wrong with TAs grading. A lot of TAs are instructors as well and are perfectly capable of both teaching and grading, especially for undergraduate classes. It's not like they are on thesis or dissertation panels, and like dogma said, a lot of the time the TA can focus a lot more of their time and energy on grading fairly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 02:51:19
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Hordini wrote:You don't need a degree in education to be a professor, and the vast majority of professors, with the exception of professors of education, don't have education degrees.
There is nothing wrong with TAs grading. A lot of TAs are instructors as well and are perfectly capable of both teaching and grading, especially for undergraduate classes. It's not like they are on thesis or dissertation panels, and like dogma said, a lot of the time the TA can focus a lot more of their time and energy on grading fairly.
Grading, yes. I wouldn't go so far as teaching. Maybe fill in or study sessions, but I've had some god-awful TAs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 03:34:13
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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jreilly89 wrote: Hordini wrote:You don't need a degree in education to be a professor, and the vast majority of professors, with the exception of professors of education, don't have education degrees.
There is nothing wrong with TAs grading. A lot of TAs are instructors as well and are perfectly capable of both teaching and grading, especially for undergraduate classes. It's not like they are on thesis or dissertation panels, and like dogma said, a lot of the time the TA can focus a lot more of their time and energy on grading fairly.
Grading, yes. I wouldn't go so far as teaching. Maybe fill in or study sessions, but I've had some god-awful TAs.
Some are better than others, sure, but a lot of schools have graduate TAs in some departments serve as instructors of first and second year courses.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 04:16:25
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Hordini wrote: jreilly89 wrote: Hordini wrote:You don't need a degree in education to be a professor, and the vast majority of professors, with the exception of professors of education, don't have education degrees.
There is nothing wrong with TAs grading. A lot of TAs are instructors as well and are perfectly capable of both teaching and grading, especially for undergraduate classes. It's not like they are on thesis or dissertation panels, and like dogma said, a lot of the time the TA can focus a lot more of their time and energy on grading fairly.
Grading, yes. I wouldn't go so far as teaching. Maybe fill in or study sessions, but I've had some god-awful TAs.
Some are better than others, sure, but a lot of schools have graduate TAs in some departments serve as instructors of first and second year courses.
The only ones I've had so far were Rhetoric and Writing and then as instructors for Lab Classes, so my opinion is a bit skewed lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 04:34:33
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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I must be really lucky. In my twelve years of teaching, I can only remember one student being a complete tool in class and all I had to do was open up the floor to the rest of the class and ask them what they thought about the situation. They let him have it so hard verbally that I actually had to come to his defense. Never had a problem with that student after that. To me it largely seems a matter of knowing how to earn respect and if that fails, a bit of psychology can go a long way.
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Help me, Rhonda. HA! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 04:41:44
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Gordon Shumway wrote:I must be really lucky. In my twelve years of teaching, I can only remember one student being a complete tool in class and all I had to do was open up the floor to the rest of the class and ask them what they thought about the situation. They let him have it so hard verbally that I actually had to come to his defense. Never had a problem with that student after that. To me it largely seems a matter of knowing how to earn respect and if that fails, a bit of psychology can go a long way.
That doesn't really seem the right way to go either. http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20150415/inwood/teacher-fired-for-having-kids-write-why-they-hated-classmate-on-blackboard
I think the best way to handle a problem student is 1 on 1 or to go to the administration.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 05:17:39
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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jreilly89 wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote:I must be really lucky. In my twelve years of teaching, I can only remember one student being a complete tool in class and all I had to do was open up the floor to the rest of the class and ask them what they thought about the situation. They let him have it so hard verbally that I actually had to come to his defense. Never had a problem with that student after that. To me it largely seems a matter of knowing how to earn respect and if that fails, a bit of psychology can go a long way.
That doesn't really seem the right way to go either. http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20150415/inwood/teacher-fired-for-having-kids-write-why-they-hated-classmate-on-blackboard
I think the best way to handle a problem student is 1 on 1 or to go to the administration.
That wasn't my intent at all, nor the way it played out. I let the student have his say and then asked the rest of the class what they thought. They then jumped on him. I intervened after I saw where the conversation was heading. I do agree though about handling the situation 1 on 1 in most cases. I talked to the student later outside of class and we actually had a laugh over the situation. He became one of my best students that semester.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/02 05:26:11
Help me, Rhonda. HA! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 07:47:41
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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Not only should you not fail everyone for the conduct of some, or even most, but to send an email like that to the students telling them? He needs to grow up a little to. You can't write an email like that as a professionl anything. He should have had the guts to sit down and tell the disruptive students one by one "stop this or you will fail/are off the course" not throw his toys out of the pram like that. If that does not work I am sure there are processes in place to deal with disruptive/failing students.
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insaniak wrote:Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 07:53:23
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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I think that when a teacher can not controll his class, this is not only failure of students, but also of the teacher.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:I tried arguing that if a student would plagiarize a low value assignment in a freshmen level course they would probably do the same thing for higher value assignments in other courses
To be honest, to me that seems like locking up someone who steals breadcrumbs because stealing breadcrumbs means he will likely steal more valueable stuff in the future. That is not how justice works. Punishment should correspond to the committed crime, not to any possible future crimes.
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 08:20:10
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Iron_Captain wrote:I think that when a teacher can not controll his class, this is not only failure of students, but also of the teacher.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:I tried arguing that if a student would plagiarize a low value assignment in a freshmen level course they would probably do the same thing for higher value assignments in other courses
To be honest, to me that seems like locking up someone who steals breadcrumbs because stealing breadcrumbs means he will likely steal more valueable stuff in the future. That is not how justice works. Punishment should correspond to the committed crime, not to any possible future crimes.
Plagiarism is a serious business. Most universities now use software to analyse submitted work and detect plagiarism and flag it to the lecturer/university. The three universities I have studied at all devoted a significant amount of time to informing students about plagiarism and the penalties for engaging in it.
And plagiarism is plagiarism. Regardless of whether it is in a short low value essay, or a major research paper going for publication. By jumping on people for the small stuff, you hopefully dissuade then from the big stuff, where it really matters and can ruin multiple reputations and potentially cost millions or even billions in revenue...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/02 08:20:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 08:52:40
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Stubborn Hammerer
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@Howard,
you bring up a good point I hadn't even considered. If that is true.. Ouch. shouldn't his letter have been addressed to the faculty in that event? As they would be the actual problem at that point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 09:31:16
Subject: YOU ALL FAIL!
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Iron_Captain wrote:I think that when a teacher can not controll his class, this is not only failure of students, but also of the teacher.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:I tried arguing that if a student would plagiarize a low value assignment in a freshmen level course they would probably do the same thing for higher value assignments in other courses
To be honest, to me that seems like locking up someone who steals breadcrumbs because stealing breadcrumbs means he will likely steal more valueable stuff in the future. That is not how justice works. Punishment should correspond to the committed crime, not to any possible future crimes.
A teacher who isn't backed up by senior staff has no power. If they can't enforce punishments and sanctions they really have little power, if you can't do anything that carries any consequences, like kicking them off the course, there's very little that can be done. Instead you get told to just 'make it work' and get those grades however. And then you ask why teachers end up fudging marks to get students through
I'd put money on this being the case rather than a guy teaching for 20 years suddenly deciding to make stuff up to fail all his students.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 23:29:23
Subject: Re:YOU ALL FAIL!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Money on the line. They're all going to pass
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