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They're a melee-centric evil army. Expect some kind of "beat yourselves up when fail leadership / away from a greater daemon" rule.

It'd be rather nice and fluffy if creatures of the Warp weren't harmed by the Warp simply for accessing the Warp...ie why is Fateweaver just as vulnerable to Perils of the Warp as a noob-level IG psyker? Daemons should at the very least have some mitigating factor for Perils if not a complete immunity

lustigjh wrote:
It'd be rather nice and fluffy if creatures of the Warp weren't harmed by the Warp simply for accessing the Warp...ie why is Fateweaver just as vulnerable to Perils of the Warp as a noob-level IG psyker? Daemons should at the very least have some mitigating factor for Perils if not a complete immunity

Because Tzeentch is out to get him.

And no, we don't deserve Perils immunity simply because it would be far too powerful... plus, the Gods are fickle by nature and can turn on their servents, or simply do things that seem completely contradictory to mortal comprehension.
Tzeentch for example is well known for setting his legions up for failure as the outcomes all inevitably are part of some unfathomable greater scheme.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

So you kinda forgot about the screamerstar combo? the 2++ rerollable with fateweaver and someone with grimoir?

Yes. Yes, I did. It's not a combo I've run. Any others you can think of ?

 adamsouza wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

So you kinda forgot about the screamerstar combo? the 2++ rerollable with fateweaver and someone with grimoir?

Yes. Yes, I did. It's not a combo I've run. Any others you can think of ?

None, pretty much most major daemon gamebreakers involved tzeentch, fateweaver, and grimoire pretty much.

I mean I wouldn't mind a new CD codex, but right now I'm just wishing they'd update all the chaos ones now, namely CSM first.

Chaos Marines probably need some love more than Daemons do, but at this point I'm convinced both will likely get new codexes. I just like Daemons more, so that's what I chose to talk about.

That, and you probably can't go a week on Dakka without someone spelling out what they think Chaos Marines need. Chaos Daemons seem like they will just get some minor tweaking, and some formations that people will ineviatably argue are OP.

 adamsouza wrote:
Chaos Marines probably need some love more than Daemons do, but at this point I'm convinced both will likely get new codexes. I just like Daemons more, so that's what I chose to talk about.

That, and you probably can't go a week on Dakka without someone spelling out what they think Chaos Marines need. Chaos Daemons seem like they will just get some minor tweaking, and some formations that people will ineviatably argue are OP.

Pretty much, Daemons only need a few minor changes here and there with nothing drastic, With GW's thoughts though who the knows where it's gonna go.

 adamsouza wrote:
Chaos Marines probably need some love more than Daemons do, but at this point I'm convinced both will likely get new codexes. I just like Daemons more, so that's what I chose to talk about.

That, and you probably can't go a week on Dakka without someone spelling out what they think Chaos Marines need. Chaos Daemons seem like they will just get some minor tweaking, and some formations that people will ineviatably argue are OP.

Not to sidetrack too much, but what CSM's really need are just more unit wargear options and an overhaul of their model line on top of a couple rules tweaks... It's sad for example when to build a viable Havoc Squad, you have to go and buy FW packs just to get a functional unit!


What I'm most excited for however is finally getting 3 levels of Greater Daemons for each God.
This is something I've hinted at in the past, that Greaters should be given 3 levels in a similar manner to Heralds and their Loci abilities. I'm over the moon to see that GW had the same idea!

It's a great way to add an extra layer of character to these guys, without going overboard on the Gifts options or special rules.

I hadn't heard anything about that. Are you getting that from the Bloodthirster having mulitple versions, or another source ?

lustigjh wrote:
It'd be rather nice and fluffy if creatures of the Warp weren't harmed by the Warp simply for accessing the Warp...ie why is Fateweaver just as vulnerable to Perils of the Warp as a noob-level IG psyker? Daemons should at the very least have some mitigating factor for Perils if not a complete immunity

Yeah that has never sat right with me either.

Also, Daemons should be masters of deepstriking since it is their primary method of entry into the universe and they have been doing it for millennia.... Deepstriking off of icons just seems limited when other armies can deepstrike in complete safety.

I get the perils of the warp from a stricltly game balance angle, fluffwise meh.

Between Banners and Cursed Earth Scatter from deepstrike has never really been an issue for me.

I don't really see either of those changing in the next book. They'd be a buff they didn't really need or ask for.

I'd really like to see Tzeentch Daemons have their powers be a little more reliable. If you're going to dump all your points into warp charges its nice to have some synergies other than just having more warp charges. Rerolls, maybe only a 2 or 3 instead of a 4 required to manifest a charge depending on what upgrades you buy, a +X modifier to the perils table (as the higher the result, the better)

Remove random gifts.

Remove the warp storm table.

Remove the requirement of taking a god-specific power for the psychers.

No 2++ rerollables.

 kronk wrote:
Remove random gifts.

And replace them with what? All of the things in the Gift tables, but each with a specific points cost? I'd be OK with that. Because right now I'm more than willing to pay 20 points for just a chance at FNP 4+ on a Daemon Prince.

 kronk wrote:
Remove the warp storm table.

I don't hate the Warp Storm table, but that's largely due to my use of Fateweaver.

 kronk wrote:

Remove the requirement of taking a god-specific power for the psychers.

There is no requirement to take a god-specific power. You automatically get the Primaris, but you aren't required to roll on the table for CD Psykers.

 kronk wrote:
No 2++ rerollables.

I can kind of see your point here, but given what else is out there, it's not that out of line. You'd have to remove the 're-roll 1s' ability from Tzeentch Daemons and replace it with something or drop the prices of Tzeentch daemons.

 adamsouza wrote:
I hadn't heard anything about that. Are you getting that from the Bloodthirster having mulitple versions, or another source ?

H&H have both said that all 4 Greater Daemons are finished, with each kit containing multiple builds. Plus the lasted batch of rumors on the Tzeentch Daemonkin book has hinted at 3 different LoC types.

And yeah, if the 'Thirster got the 3-in-1 treatment, it would be completely stupid - even by GW standards to suddenly shaft the other three Gods and go with only 1 variant + a SC for just Tzeentch & Nurgle. (as we're still missing N'kari for a named KoS...)

 undertow wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Remove random gifts.

And replace them with what? All of the things in the Gift tables, but each with a specific points cost? I'd be OK with that. Because right now I'm more than willing to pay 20 points for just a chance at FNP 4+ on a Daemon Prince.

Make the crappy ones cost 5 and go up from there. Buy what you want!

"I am the commander of a legion of Daemons. A Prince of Darkness spat from hell itself! Tremble in fear as I slay you and all of your kin with my...Spell Breaker? But Mom! I wanted Corrosive Breath!"

 kronk wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Remove random gifts.

And replace them with what? All of the things in the Gift tables, but each with a specific points cost? I'd be OK with that. Because right now I'm more than willing to pay 20 points for just a chance at FNP 4+ on a Daemon Prince.

Make the crappy ones cost 5 and go up from there. Buy what you want!

"I am the commander of a legion of Daemons. A Prince of Darkness spat from hell itself! Tremble in fear as I slay you and all of your kin with my...Spell Breaker? But Mom! I wanted Corrosive Breath!"

Or:
The Demon Prince opened his carefully wrapped gift. "Warp-Forged armor? Really, I already have one of those. And no effing receipt either so I can't return it."

Tzeentch Deamons could do with a reroll to hit with Psy shooting powers.

Or simply that they are immune to Perils of the Warp when they roll a Psy power.

The way around they had in 5th was that they din't had any Psy powers, they just had "wargear" that gave them a profil to use that had the same effects has a Bolt of Change etc.

But then it screwed over armies that had Psy protections, while they still where using raw Warp Power to use their ranged attacks.

But at no moment the Devs said "okay simply give Deamons immunity to Perils" and be done with it.

They like the whoe re-rolling ones thing. I wouldn't be suprised if they applied it to harnessing the warp rolls as well, at least for Tzeentch, of as a formation bonus