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So lets say you try to charge in the assault phase and you fail the charge. Are you still able to do the 2d6 movement in the assault phase ?

No .

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
So lets say you try to charge in the assault phase and you fail the charge. Are you still able to do the 2d6 movement in the assault phase ?

Jet Pack rules... "A Jet Pack unit that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot or Run in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn."

So, the only two things preventing a 'thrust' move are being locked in combat (not the case here) and charging (ding ding ding). Failing a charge results in a failed charge... which is still a charge. It's safe to say that the second you declare a charge, you are considered to be charging.

Eldar Jetbikes are a little different...

"In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes, if an Eldar Jetbike elects to Turbo-boost in the Shooting phase, it can move up to 36". If they do not Turbo-boost, Eldar Jetbikes may move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase."

You'll notice that the only thing that limits the Eldar Jetbike from 'thrusting' is performing a Turbo-boost. There is no mention of charging being a restricting element. Ergo, you can presumably 'thrust' then charge OR fail a charge then 'thrust' as nothing in the rules makes them mutually exclusive as in the case of Jet Pack units.

CrownAxe is correct as relates to Jet Packs, but incorrect as relates to Eldar Jetbikes.

Ok, Thank you. I did not read the Jet pack rules, I just assumed they were worded the same as the Eldar jet bike rules. I had this issue happen earlier, and we didnt know how to play it. So we just allowed the bikes to move.

 Kriswall wrote:

Eldar Jetbikes are a little different...

"In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes, if an Eldar Jetbike elects to Turbo-boost in the Shooting phase, it can move up to 36". If they do not Turbo-boost, Eldar Jetbikes may move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase."

You'll notice that the only thing that limits the Eldar Jetbike from 'thrusting' is performing a Turbo-boost. There is no mention of charging being a restricting element. Ergo, you can presumably 'thrust' then charge OR fail a charge then 'thrust' as nothing in the rules makes them mutually exclusive as in the case of Jet Pack units.

Follow up question. How do eldar jetbikes treat difficult terrain if they thrust in the same phase that they charge?
It SEEMS like they can treat difficult terrain just like they do in the movement phase so long as they thrust first. But if they fail a charge, and then Thrust, how do they treat difficult terrain?

Bojazz wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Eldar Jetbikes are a little different...

"In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes, if an Eldar Jetbike elects to Turbo-boost in the Shooting phase, it can move up to 36". If they do not Turbo-boost, Eldar Jetbikes may move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase."

You'll notice that the only thing that limits the Eldar Jetbike from 'thrusting' is performing a Turbo-boost. There is no mention of charging being a restricting element. Ergo, you can presumably 'thrust' then charge OR fail a charge then 'thrust' as nothing in the rules makes them mutually exclusive as in the case of Jet Pack units.

Follow up question. How do eldar jetbikes treat difficult terrain if they thrust in the same phase that they charge?
It SEEMS like they can treat difficult terrain just like they do in the movement phase so long as they thrust first. But if they fail a charge, and then Thrust, how do they treat difficult terrain?

Presumably they treat it how they'd normally treat difficult terrain when moving...

"Jetbikes can move over all other models and terrain freely. However, if a moving Jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test. Jetbikes cannot end their move over other models or impassable terrain, except that they can end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is actually possible to place the models on top of it. If they do so, they treat the impassable terrain as dangerous terrain."

It's kind of a stupid rule. They treat difficult terrain the same whenever they move.

To be honest, I believe the intent was that Eldar Jetbikes could Charge OR 'Thrust', but not both. That's how we normally play it. We normally treat them the same way we treat Jet Pack models.

 Kriswall wrote:

You'll notice that the only thing that limits the Eldar Jetbike from 'thrusting' is performing a Turbo-boost. There is no mention of charging being a restricting element. Ergo, you can presumably 'thrust' then charge OR fail a charge then 'thrust' as nothing in the rules makes them mutually exclusive as in the case of Jet Pack units.

Thrust then charge you say. This just in Eldar bikes best assault units in the game, and capable of 24"assaults. Reavers and Shining spears are now twice as good. I can't imagine that this is intended though. Still it would be kind of fun to fail a charge and then thrust move behind a wall for protection, or to make preposterously large charges.

this is legit? i can't find squat that says or would even imply it doesn't work (aside from that it seems beardy in the extreme).

 gigasnail wrote:
this is legit? i can't find squat that says or would even imply it doesn't work (aside from that it seems beardy in the extreme).

Rules seem to permit it. I don't know anyone who actually allows it in game though, so don't expect your opponent to be cooperative if you try it.

i don't play eldar, but play against them pretty frequently. friend of mine that does play them saw this earlier and asked me wtf. my first response was 'no, lol' then i read it and groaned.

It clearly says "up to 2d6 in the assault phase" so cannot move more than 2d6 in total during the assault phase.

I cant see why they cant do it after failing a charge though

 jokerkd wrote:
It clearly says "up to 2d6 in the assault phase" so cannot move more than 2d6 in total during the assault phase.

I cant see why they cant do it after failing a charge though

I feel like that interpretation leads to some very unusual results. Like if you roll your jump first got a 12 then only moved 8 would you still be able to assualt 4 inches? If you rolled more than 4 inches on your assualt would you only be allowed to move the 4 inches? If that is the case then a person can know their charge distance before commiting to the charge. Roll the jump move, if it is good enough to get into assualt then move one inch away from the unit you plan to assualt. Then declare a charge, you can only charge as far as you rolled on the jump, but you already know you have atleast one inch of movement left and you cannot fail a one inch charge. If the jump move wasn't enough to get into the charge then you would just use the movement to go somewhere else.

Is there any similar circumstances where one type of movement disallows another becuase you move "up to x in that phase"?

Lets say some eldar bikes make the jump move and land next to a vehicle. The vehicle then explodes killing enough bikes to force a leadership test, which they fail. Would the bikes not be allowed to run away because they cannot move more than the 2d6 in the assualt phase? What if they had only used a portion of their jump move, would they be able to run away but only the remaining portion of their jump roll?

 coblen wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
It clearly says "up to 2d6 in the assault phase" so cannot move more than 2d6 in total during the assault phase.

I cant see why they cant do it after failing a charge though

I feel like that interpretation leads to some very unusual results. Like if you roll your jump first got a 12 then only moved 8 would you still be able to assualt 4 inches? If you rolled more than 4 inches on your assualt would you only be allowed to move the 4 inches? If that is the case then a person can know their charge distance before commiting to the charge. Roll the jump move, if it is good enough to get into assualt then move one inch away from the unit you plan to assualt. Then declare a charge, you can only charge as far as you rolled on the jump, but you already know you have atleast one inch of movement left and you cannot fail a one inch charge. If the jump move wasn't enough to get into the charge then you would just use the movement to go somewhere else.

Is there any similar circumstances where one type of movement disallows another becuase you move "up to x in that phase"?

Lets say some eldar bikes make the jump move and land next to a vehicle. The vehicle then explodes killing enough bikes to force a leadership test, which they fail. Would the bikes not be allowed to run away because they cannot move more than the 2d6 in the assualt phase? What if they had only used a portion of their jump move, would they be able to run away but only the remaining portion of their jump roll?

Lol......yep.

Obviously as a TO i would insist on one or the other but RAW opens up a whole heap of shenanigans. (Just not 12" thrust, then 12" charge)

The interpretation of "up to 2d6 in the assault phase" limiting further movement doesn't sit well with me. How are other movements worded? I don't have my book, but does regular movement, or running, or turbo boosting, or jet pack infantry jump moves also say "up to x in the y phase." If so would you say it limits their ability to run if something causes them to fail moral?

Does any other part of the sentence mention the assault phase. It could be that the "up to 2d6 in the assault phase" is saying you can do it in the assault phase, not limiting how much you can move in the assault phase.

If they choose to charge, they cannot also choose to thrust. Its one or the other.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
If they choose to charge, they cannot also choose to thrust. Its one or the other.

Not what the rules say...

"If they do not Turbo-boost, Eldar Jetbikes may move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase.""

You'll note that there is nothing saying that if they charge that they can't do the 2D6" move. Compare this to the similar Jet Pack Infantry rules that tell us the 2D6" move can only be done in an Assault phase where they unit doesn't charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Realistically speaking, the rules allow for the following scenarios with an Eldar Jetbike unit.

1. Declare charge, fail charge roll, perform 'thrust' move
2. Perform 'thrust move', declare charge
3. Declare charge, succeed, win combat, consolidate, perform 'thrust' move

HIWPI - one or the other. Seems likely that's what they intended given the similar Jet Pack rules.

Pay close attention to this part of the rule:


"When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase."



So when they thrust move they cannot charge. Note that while this sentence is not explicitly stating they cannot charge in and of itself, it is referencing the fact that charging is a move during the assault phase but they only suffer the difficult terrain checks if they are thrust moving.


This is intoning that they can do either one or the other. If they could do both, they would have worded it a lot differently.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Pay close attention to this part of the rule:


"When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase."



So when they thrust move they cannot charge. Note that while this sentence is not explicitly stating they cannot charge in and of itself, it is referencing the fact that charging is a move during the assault phase but they only suffer the difficult terrain checks if they are thrust moving.


This is intoning that they can do either one or the other. If they could do both, they would have worded it a lot differently.

Authorial intent can be pretty easy to flip the other way.

You could just as easily say that this line admits the possibility that both can be done. This is when they move but do not charge, if they move and do charge they don't treat difficult terrain the same as in the movement phase. The author has clearly shown a scenario in which both moving and assaulting in the same turn have been considered. They never say that you cannot charge and jump move. if you could not do both they would have worded it a lot differently.