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So i have though of the new leaf blower. The idea is to take the following army in a cad and attempt to get scout to ensure range on turn 1. If going second or not getting scout then the list could still work but i would have to go a turn without the d cannons.

Farseer jetbike + stones

4 shuriken cannon bikes
4 shuriken cannon bikes
4 shuriken cannon bikes
4 shuriken cannon bikes
4 shuriken cannon bikes
4 shuriken cannon bikes

3 x vauls wrath battery with heavy d cannons and warlock
3 x vauls wrath battery with heavy d cannons and warlock
3 x vauls wrath battery with heavy d cannons and warlock

1 wraithknight with d cannons

Assassin detachment:
Culexus assassin

This still leaves me 37 points to play with. The warlocks can use their primaris to give the battery's shrouding. 2+ cover saves. The assassin is a combat threat and has the ability to nullify invisibility on death stars


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So there are 9 barrage blast and 2 punches all strength d per turn. In addition there are stomps if needed in assault which are also strength d. The assassin is going to keep invisibility from getting to me. The biggest threat is flyer heavy armies but any skyfire nexus on the board should help with that.

D cannons are a little too short ranged. A lot of lists could just out range your Cannons or ignore them completely depending on terrain setup and objective placement.

I think Eldrad automatically comes with the scout warlord trait. Since you're heavily depending on that to get your D-cannons in range, I would recommend you fit him in by dropping the Farseer and a couple bikes.

What is stomping? Or Punching with the D?

Why 4 Jetbikes/ Unit? One casualty is still a LD check. Wouldn't 5s and 3s be more efficient?
Why Shuriken Cannons? Scatter Lasers are better vs almost every target profile and have superior range.

partninja wrote:D cannons are a little too short ranged. A lot of lists could just out range your Cannons or ignore them completely depending on terrain setup and objective placement.

They are barrage and that is what the scout is for. Im not to worried moving and running in one turn.

Zimko wrote:I think Eldrad automatically comes with the scout warlord trait. Since you're heavily depending on that to get your D-cannons in range, I would recommend you fit him in by dropping the Farseer and a couple bikes.

Thanks for the suggestion. What is his exact warlord trait? Im at work so i dont have the book atm.

Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:What is stomping? Or Punching with the D?

Gargantuan creatures now have stomp like imperial knights. I could also tske the sword on the wraithknight as well to have St D attacks as well.

Zagman wrote:Why 4 Jetbikes/ Unit? One casualty is still a LD check. Wouldn't 5s and 3s be more efficient?
Why Shuriken Cannons? Scatter Lasers are better vs almost every target profile and have superior range.

scatter laser is only better when you face 4+ save or geq models. Shuriken cannons thanks to bladestorm are actually better against meq and teq. The shorter range is manageable with the speed of the bikes.



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Also a unit of 4 jetbikes can always rally. Even if down to one bike.

Uhh, did you leave the Knight out of this list or something?

Also, I'm pretty sure you can't run with artillery, even Eldar ones though I have to check the rules. I also don't think you can move and shoot them.

You can get in range with the cannons on bikes, but even with eldar jetbike moves, it's not difficult for enemy rapid fire weapons to get into single tap range of you. In a general list, scatter lasers are generally best.

 Tomb King wrote:

partninja wrote:D cannons are a little too short ranged. A lot of lists could just out range your Cannons or ignore them completely depending on terrain setup and objective placement.

They are barrage and that is what the scout is for. Im not to worried moving and running in one turn.

Zimko wrote:I think Eldrad automatically comes with the scout warlord trait. Since you're heavily depending on that to get your D-cannons in range, I would recommend you fit him in by dropping the Farseer and a couple bikes.

Thanks for the suggestion. What is his exact warlord trait? Im at work so i dont have the book atm.

Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:What is stomping? Or Punching with the D?

Gargantuan creatures now have stomp like imperial knights. I could also tske the sword on the wraithknight as well to have St D attacks as well.

Zagman wrote:Why 4 Jetbikes/ Unit? One casualty is still a LD check. Wouldn't 5s and 3s be more efficient?
Why Shuriken Cannons? Scatter Lasers are better vs almost every target profile and have superior range.

scatter laser is only better when you face 4+ save or geq models. Shuriken cannons thanks to bladestorm are actually better against meq and teq. The shorter range is manageable with the speed of the bikes.



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Also a unit of 4 jetbikes can always rally. Even if down to one bike.

You forgot to list your Wraithknight.


Shuriken is only is better against 3+AS if there isn't a Cover Save or Invulnerable save, a 5+ or 4+ shifts it in favor of the Scatter Laser. TEQ is one of the few profiles where the Shurken is better, unless that 2+ AS claims a 3++ or 3+ cover save. With 4++ or 4+ Cover the Shurken is only marginally better.

Shuriken is also better against mc's as most wounds will require they take cover if its available. Not everything sticks in cover all day. The top armies right now are the assaulty armies with some super friends. The d cannons could whipe out those units with ease. They can kill knights. They can kill lord of wars. Green tide might give me fits but i could snipe the nobs with barrage and then charge with the wraithknight to lock them up.

 Tomb King wrote:

Zimko wrote:I think Eldrad automatically comes with the scout warlord trait. Since you're heavily depending on that to get your D-cannons in range, I would recommend you fit him in by dropping the Farseer and a couple bikes.

Thanks for the suggestion. What is his exact warlord trait? Im at work so i dont have the book atm.

It's called "An Eye on Distant Events". It gives d3 units the Scout special rule before deployment. Eldrad has the warlord trait by default.

As someone said earlier, you won't be able to run with artillery, and thus won't have the advantage of battlefocus either. However, since they're barrage, only 1 of the 3 cannons needs to be in range, and since a unit of 3 cannons has 9 models (10 with a warlock), you can spread them out to cover more area. Add a scout move to that and you can cover all of midfield on turn 1 plus some of your opponent's deployment zone.

The biggest weakness to this tactic is that your artillery is extremely vulnerable. The D-cannon artillery is very much a glass-cannon but I suppose that's what you want.

It is the general consensus that Scatter lasers are better, however I do think shuricannons have merit. Maybe you should mix it up. Have half your units with Scatters that stay in your deployment or go up a flank to take side armour shots, and the other half of your units with shuricannons that advance up and shoot at TEQs & MCs.

Also master ambusher which grants d3 units infiltrate will be better then scout. Might stick with the farseer and take the risk. Though eldrad being a lvl 4 bad ass is nice for the runes of fate.
I might take another look at shuriken cannons. Though being ap5 also makes them better then scatter lasers against geq. Forgot that little titbit. Cover is an issue regardless but taking cover is better then taking a normal save on meq and teq.

 Tomb King wrote:
Also master ambusher which grants d3 units infiltrate will be better then scout. Might stick with the farseer and take the risk. Though eldrad being a lvl 4 bad ass is nice for the runes of fate.
I might take another look at shuriken cannons. Though being ap5 also makes them better then scatter lasers against geq. Forgot that little titbit. Cover is an issue regardless but taking cover is better then taking a normal save on meq and teq.

You do have ample D blasts and a Wraithknight for the targets that the Shurken Cannons are better against. I truly believe the Scatter Lasers synergize better with the rest of the army and are only beneficial. Also, with a relative weakenss to flyers and FMCs the additional shots are definitely not a bad thing... more so against flyers not FMCs.

Edit: And Master of Ambush is absolutely brutal. Only problem is not getting first turn or the Warlord Trait you need. At least Eldrad with guaranteed Scout would be more reliable, albeit less spectacularily good.

Also, what would you look at for NOVA, as GC/SH LoW are out, so no Wraithknight. How would you fill the holes it leaves, or would you scratch the basic premise of the army?

 Zagman wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Also master ambusher which grants d3 units infiltrate will be better then scout. Might stick with the farseer and take the risk. Though eldrad being a lvl 4 bad ass is nice for the runes of fate.
I might take another look at shuriken cannons. Though being ap5 also makes them better then scatter lasers against geq. Forgot that little titbit. Cover is an issue regardless but taking cover is better then taking a normal save on meq and teq.

You do have ample D blasts and a Wraithknight for the targets that the Shurken Cannons are better against. I truly believe the Scatter Lasers synergize better with the rest of the army and are only beneficial. Also, with a relative weakenss to flyers and FMCs the additional shots are definitely not a bad thing... more so against flyers not FMCs.

Edit: And Master of Ambush is absolutely brutal. Only problem is not getting first turn or the Warlord Trait you need. At least Eldrad with guaranteed Scout would be more reliable, albeit less spectacularily good.

Also, what would you look at for NOVA, as GC/SH LoW are out, so no Wraithknight. How would you fill the holes it leaves, or would you scratch the basic premise of the army?

I dont think the wraithknight makes or breaks this list. He is nice to have but I could replace him with harlequins for assault or wraithguard for the D solo shots.

I would not take too much stock in AP5 vs AP6. If you are forcing saves on a unit that only has a 5+, more shots will still be better. Plus, cover is a thing.

The only true advantage that shuricannons have over scatters is Bladestorm. However, this makes the bike really want to hit specific targets. Scatterlasers are a better all around unit.

I think a 2:1 ratio is good. For every 2 Scatterbike units, you have 1 Shuricannon unit.

It is common knowledge that scatter lasers are better in almost every situation. That is including the bladestorm chance.

This list isnt that great, you didnt break eldar, let alone 40k.

chadbrochill17 wrote:
It is common knowledge that scatter lasers are better in almost every situation. That is including the bladestorm chance.

This list isnt that great, you didnt break eldar, let alone 40k.

The bikes are mobile obsec with good shooting... the strength of the list is the 9 barrage St: D shots a turn. I am leaning more towards the bladestorm option as the formation for bikes only works for shuriken weapons. It keeps my options open. I am not sure how many games you got at the GT level recently but pretty much every game saw a TEQ against me. With the exclusion of the game against Adlance + lynx. The only real argument that I am considering is the range difference. People dismiss AP2 to often.

@Galef

IMHO the best counter for eldar right now is AM or GEQ hordes.

Its a good list, could be a bit more refined to slightly more optimized, but quite good

The D-Barrage weapons with T7 and 3+ ArSv are definetely very spammable and can do major carnage.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Its a good list, could be a bit more refined to slightly more optimized, but quite good

The D-Barrage weapons with T7 and 3+ ArSv are definetely very spammable and can do major carnage.

If they are infiltrated or scouted into terrain then they can get a 2+ cover save from the warlocks primaris power. Just think of your current GT army and ask could it handle a turn or two of shooting from the above list.

chadbrochill17 wrote:
It is common knowledge that scatter lasers are better in almost every situation. That is including the bladestorm chance.

How is it possible, if mathhammer shows that scatterlasers are only slightly better against vehicles, and against any infantry or MC cannons are strictly better? Range is not that crucial on such mobile unit as ejb.

 Tomb King wrote:
Just think of your current GT army and ask could it handle a turn or two of shooting from the above list.

Against most armies, I agree. But be wary of Nids and Deamons. Most Nids lists have enough shooting to kill all your bikes and Daemon rush lists can be in your deployment line on turn 1, ready to charge anything on turn 2.

Agreed, this list is good bUt not broken.

 Arbiter wrote:
Agreed, this list is good bUt not broken.

Each turn up to 4 units can be deleted with no saves of any kind. Regardless of unit type or how many hp's. Things could move out of range and stay there but board control is important. Flying means your not scoring. The assassin can counter invisible units. An assaulty army has to survive a round of shooting and a tarpitting wraithknight and/or an culexus assassin.

Daemons can do it. Or at least I have done it vs 48 Fire Warriors supported by 2 Riptides and markerlights up the wazoo. Not saying most games were easy, but once even a fraction of my hound-rush list got into CC (guaranteed turn 2 charges, even if you deploy on your back table edge btw), the Fire warriors folded.

The artillery are even weaker in CC than Fire Warriors (since you hit and wound vs the crew, not the guns) and their overwatch is virtually non-existent compared to the Fire Warriors. It is hard to get that many hits on a unit of Flesh hounds since their bases are so big, and you have less shots with the bikes since you have shuricannons instead of Scatters (hint that is another plug for Scatters, they are much better against Daemons)

Against most other armies, your list is very hard to beat, but you can only claim the list is broken if it doesn't have a counter. I can speak from experience that a decent Hound-rush/Summoning/Flying Circus daemon list can counter this well enough.

Oh, and Belakor has Eternal warrior and a Fleshbane/Armourbane sword. Belakor is the only model in all of 40k that consistently kills Imperial Knights in CC, a WK will be easier to kill for him.

 Galef wrote:
Daemons can do it. Or at least I have done it vs 48 Fire Warriors supported by 2 Riptides and markerlights up the wazoo. Not saying most games were easy, but once even a fraction of my hound-rush list got into CC (guaranteed turn 2 charges, even if you deploy on your back table edge btw), the Fire warriors folded.

The artillery are even weaker in CC than Fire Warriors (since you hit and wound vs the crew, not the guns) and their overwatch is virtually non-existent compared to the Fire Warriors. It is hard to get that many hits on a unit of Flesh hounds since their bases are so big, and you have less shots with the bikes since you have shuricannons instead of Scatters (hint that is another plug for Scatters, they are much better against Daemons)

Against most other armies, your list is very hard to beat, but you can only claim the list is broken if it doesn't have a counter. I can speak from experience that a decent Hound-rush/Summoning/Flying Circus daemon list can counter this well enough.

Oh, and Belakor has Eternal warrior and a Fleshbane/Armourbane sword. Belakor is the only model in all of 40k that consistently kills Imperial Knights in CC, a WK will be easier to kill for him.

And how many Hounds do you believe would be left? You have to hold through at least one turn of shooting. That is 9 barrage D blasts. Even the Shuribikes average dealing 27 wounds, Scatter Bikes deal 35 Wounds. Then there is a Wraithknight to contend with which can hold and eliminate a unit of hounds itself.

And if this list goes first you have two turns of shooting to survive. And it puts out vastly more firepower than the aforementioned Tau list.

That being said Belekor is a potential problem.

36 Fleshhounds is 72 wounds. Are you calculating those wounds after their Invul/cover saves? What about with Grimiore?

Even against 2 turns of Tau shooting and 1 round of their crazy good overwatch, I still consistently managed to get 1/3 of my hound into CC (which is all you need).

This Eldar list is the closest to a "leaf blower" list that you can get. Other shooting heavy list will lose against it. Lists that incorporate some shooting & some CC will lose. But a very fast list that doesn't rely on armour saves can beat it. Maybe not in every game, but in enough to give the Eldar a headache.

Drop Pod lists will also be a problem since they can get the jump on you. However, you don't see ALL Drop Pod list of Hound-rush list in tounaments. That alone make this Eldar list more powerful

 Galef wrote:
36 Fleshhounds is 72 wounds. Are you calculating those wounds after their Invul/cover saves? What about with Grimiore?

Even against 2 turns of Tau shooting and 1 round of their crazy good overwatch, I still consistently managed to get 1/3 of my hound into CC (which is all you need).

This Eldar list is the closest to a "leaf blower" list that you can get. Other shooting heavy list will lose against it. Lists that incorporate some shooting & some CC will lose. But a very fast list that doesn't rely on armour saves can beat it. Maybe not in every game, but in enough to give the Eldar a headache.

Drop Pod lists will also be a problem since they can get the jump on you. However, you don't see ALL Drop Pod list of Hound-rush list in tounaments. That alone make this Eldar list more powerful

Those were after Invuln Saves. Geimiore is not a sure thing, and does not work if Eldar goes first.

9 Blasts, assume each hits 2 Hounds, more likely many will hit three as spreading out too much slows down the rush.
18 hits, 3 removed Hounds from 6s, 12 more hits with 4 1wound hits, 8 2-3wounds, 3 1/3 more dead hounds.

One round from the D blasts removes 6 1/3 Hounds, likely more.
ShuriBikes remove 13 1/2 Hounds, Scattbikes would remove 17 1/2
Wraithknight removes 1.

So 20-21+ of the 36 Hounds in one turn of shooting that cannot be avoided. Obviously the Wraighknight will also charge the third and ideally Grimiored Hound Unit tarpitting it and effectively halting the Hound Rush.

Hound Rush is not a dependable counter to this list, especially if Eldar go first. The Hounds can barely handle one round of shooting, let alone two of them.

I can only speak from experience. That many Fire Warriors and Riptides should have killed the Hounds as well, but I consistently massacred that list. There is a lot that can happen with dice, especially when its Night Fight and Mathhammer only goes so far.

There are also other things in the list like SoulGrinders (which will admittedly die to this Eldar list), plenty of Horrors & Daemonettes.

Come to think of it, Plague Drones would do a number on against this list too. None of your stuff ignore cover (except the '6' on the D table). I have a friend who plays nothing but Nurgle stuff, and lots of Drones. They are fast and always have a 3+ or 2+ cover save.

My point is to be aware of the counter to this list. You may never see it played, but if you know it exist, you will be better prepared. Many of my victories with my Daemons should not have happened, but did because the opponent wasn't expecting it

 Tomb King wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
Agreed, this list is good bUt not broken.

Each turn up to 4 units can be deleted with no saves of any kind. Regardless of unit type or how many hp's. Things could move out of range and stay there but board control is important. Flying means your not scoring. The assassin can counter invisible units. An assaulty army has to survive a round of shooting and a tarpitting wraithknight and/or an culexus assassin.

Well...not really. While yes barrage will ignore terrain cover saves cover saves from say jinking will still work along with Invul saves. Unless you roll a 6 on the str D table.

partninja wrote:
D cannons are a little too short ranged. A lot of lists could just out range your Cannons or ignore them completely depending on terrain setup and objective placement.

That's not actually true, the optimum placement is as far forward as possible in set up then move the a full movement plus a run (they get 6" run if he is windrider host) and forgo shooting on turn one you are now all but mid board. You will take casualties and create huge attention but they are a huge wound pool.