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epronovost wrote:
While Ogryn Bonehead (their leader) are relativelly intelligent (about has smart has a teen), most Ogryn are indeed very stupid. If they were smart (and more coordonated), they would overshadow Space Marines rather easily. They are far larger, stronger and even slightly more resilient than Space Marines. If they were smart, they would basically be uglier better Marines with worst gear. I find their appeal in their relative stupidity. They are big naive, gentle giant that can tear an ork nob appart with their bare hands. It's legitimate thrope.

Hodor.

 Deadshot wrote:

epronovost wrote:
While Ogryn Bonehead (their leader) are relativelly intelligent (about has smart has a teen), most Ogryn are indeed very stupid. If they were smart (and more coordonated), they would overshadow Space Marines rather easily. They are far larger, stronger and even slightly more resilient than Space Marines. If they were smart, they would basically be uglier better Marines with worst gear. I find their appeal in their relative stupidity. They are big naive, gentle giant that can tear an ork nob appart with their bare hands. It's legitimate thrope.

Hodor.

Wow I almost forgot that reference. HODOR!

I still need to get me some ogryns for my IG, I think it is now mandatory that I make one that looks like Hodor.

And now I wonder, what other memorable characters from various franchises, books, film. TV, etc could be made into ogryn minis?

Hodor.

aw_man wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

epronovost wrote:
While Ogryn Bonehead (their leader) are relativelly intelligent (about has smart has a teen), most Ogryn are indeed very stupid. If they were smart (and more coordonated), they would overshadow Space Marines rather easily. They are far larger, stronger and even slightly more resilient than Space Marines. If they were smart, they would basically be uglier better Marines with worst gear. I find their appeal in their relative stupidity. They are big naive, gentle giant that can tear an ork nob appart with their bare hands. It's legitimate thrope.

Hodor.

Wow I almost forgot that reference. HODOR!

I still need to get me some ogryns for my IG, I think it is now mandatory that I make one that looks like Hodor.

And now I wonder, what other memorable characters from various franchises, books, film. TV, etc could be made into ogryn minis?

Hodor.

There are plenty of characters who fit the bill. You could make one like Lenny from "Of Mice and Men," complete with pet rabbits.

 Deadshot wrote:

aw_man wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

epronovost wrote:
While Ogryn Bonehead (their leader) are relativelly intelligent (about has smart has a teen), most Ogryn are indeed very stupid. If they were smart (and more coordonated), they would overshadow Space Marines rather easily. They are far larger, stronger and even slightly more resilient than Space Marines. If they were smart, they would basically be uglier better Marines with worst gear. I find their appeal in their relative stupidity. They are big naive, gentle giant that can tear an ork nob appart with their bare hands. It's legitimate thrope.

Hodor.

Wow I almost forgot that reference. HODOR!

I still need to get me some ogryns for my IG, I think it is now mandatory that I make one that looks like Hodor.

And now I wonder, what other memorable characters from various franchises, books, film. TV, etc could be made into ogryn minis?

Hodor.

There are plenty of characters who fit the bill. You could make one like Lenny from "Of Mice and Men," complete with pet rabbits.

Man its been awhile since I read that book. But yeah that is a good one, though now the thought of those rabbits makes me sad. Thats why I plea for ideas, because my head is blank of GOOD memorable characters from other genres that would make unique ogryn.

Also, I like how Lennie is another example of the stereotype that obviously influenced Ogryns; a big 'gentle' brute who was essentially mentally disabled, and didn't know his own strength. Totally an Ogryn.

Another gentle giant, though not unintelligent was Andre the Giant.

Andre was cool but anything but gentle, especially when drunk. Add stupidity and you would have a good Ogryn. Of course Andre was awesome and must he rest in peace.

I use Mad Robot's miniatures - I see them as having the mental faculties of your stereotypical redneck, sure they can aim guns, drive vehicles, build things and even read and write, on the other hand nobody in their right mind would let them near alcohol, vehicles, explosives or positions of power.

It kind of shows how desperate the Guard are for recruits, but imagine the look the face of anyone(thing) that gets killed while hearing the words "Get im Bubba!!!"

 Melissia wrote:
The "superior reflexes" is just hypnotraining, which the Inquisition also gives to normal humans. Nothing to stop them from giving it to an Ogryn.

Given that Astartes manage reaction speeds orders of magnitude beyond the mortal human limit, I suspect it is more than just the hypno-indoctrination.

Intelligent Ogryns in PA would be pretty funny, though. They would have zero difficulty maneuvring since everything is so damn oversized (Tau buildings fit battlesuits, Ork buildings fit huge Warbosses, Tyranid ships fit Warriors, and so on and so forth). They'd still be extremely clumsy because they are so obscenely bulky, even for their height, and because they have no black carapace. But they would be nice living walls.

nareik wrote:Oh, that reminds me, they tend to have severe claustrophobia issues too. Kinda odd for a bunch of cave dwellers..

I hadn't come across this until I tried to character generate with FFG's Only War RPG, and yes:

BUT IT DARK IN DERE!
Despite their fearsome and fearless nature, Ogryns are extremely claustrophobic. They will not enter caves, basements, ruins, infantry fighting vehicles like the Chimera, or even smaller than average buildings, of their own free will. Officers and Commissars can order them into such places, but suffer a –10 penalty to any Command Skill Tests to do so, and Ogryns suffer a –10 to all Skill Tests when so confined.

I'm grateful my players didn't want to roll one up because being a Mordian regiment, every single character is lumbered with: Hivebound: Mordians seldom endure the horrors of the open sky or suffer the indignities of the great outdoors. Whilst outside of an enclosed or artificial environment (such as a hive city, starship or similar), they suffer a –10 penalty to all Survival Tests due to their continued unfamiliarity with such places.
I imagine a Mordian Ogryn just stands half in and out of a doorway sobbing to himself and wondering what to do.

aw_man wrote:
I feel like it should spawn a new/separate thing.

Maybe an Ogryn with an an augmented brain, or possibly a transplanted one.

Or at the very least, I would think the Biologis would have tried breeding Ogryn with modified genes to spawn larger, more powerful brains.

I actually think that would be a cool addition, or should exist:

Psyker, super-intelligent Ogryns, in power armor.

I feel like that would be like a more progressive path towards a Space Marine. Minus the big lab-made organs list.

I would think a super Ogryn, with alot of the intelligence-related downsides eliminated, would be superior to a regular Space Marine.

The canon states that Bone 'Eads have augmetics in their brains to improve their memory and intelligence. These are visible on the models as well. As for the gene-tampering, I have to agree with what many said, Aside from the obvious fact that it's heresy(!), it makes no sense in this universe. Taking the more "progressive" path to something is the last thing the Imperium would do. I also don't think an intelligent Ogryn is superior to a Space Marine in every way.To put it in fluff perspective, they lack the dexterity and reflexes of Space Marines, to say nothing of the redundant organs and various implants. After all, Astartes are functionally immortal; I don't think one has ever died of old age. You couldn't say the same for these super-Ogryns, and I'd wager they may even have a shorter lifespan. Space Marines are given the best training because they never retire, therefore giving the best possible return on that investment. Also, there's a good reason why the Emperor chose implantation of enhanced organs over creation of an entirely new species. The human genome is extremely complex and full of bizarre relationships and junk data. The aforementioned tampering is guaranteed to have a variety of unintended results, and even if it fit the universe or would be permitted in the Imperium, it would be easier to start from scratch than to use the already debased genes of the Ogryns.

Smarter Ogryns in large numbers may also be less controllable; it would be interesting to see if this resulted in a scenario like the Krogan Rebellions of Mass Effect.

Adding an extra thought into the 'intelligent ogryn vs space marine' debate; don't space marines possess much enhanced healing capabilities?

Although less likely to suffer an injury I imagine an ogryn is less likely to fully recover from that injury as a spacemarine could.

The real reason is that they are fantasy ogres, which are dumb.

EXTREMELY dumb, if the fluff on Nork is taken literally. Like a bit more than gorillas.

I'm guessing a space marine ogryn would not work out, like the geneseed and other implants will probably be rejected by the ogryn's body, and I would be curious to see which chapter would let an ogryn into their ranks.

Well the Ultramarines once had Eldars in their ranks. So why not?

The keyword there is 'once had'.

In the same vein, once in a time where a half eldar Space Marine Librarian was a thing, so was female Space Marines and skin tight power armors for inquisitors. It's very probable that implantation of geneseed on an ogryn is impossible and even not desirable because of the extrem stupidity of ogryns. The last thing you want is a monster with the strength, resistence, training and equipment to destroy an entire company worth of guardsmen with the intelligence and maturity of a child. Maybe Chaos Space Marines Corpse Master like Fabious Bile modified the geneseed to fit on all kinds of humans, mutants and other. So it wound't be a far fetch to have Chaos Ogryns with geneseeds. It's the kind of mad scientist stuff I would expect from them.

Well the are Loyal because they are extremely religious and believe every order they get is coming directly from the God-Emperor down the chain of command.