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Very unique, quirky little game popped up today! You may have seen it advertised on BoW for a little while and today it finally launched!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/611224377/home-raiders

It's a skirmish game with the premise that your models are little creatures (actual size!) that have invaded your house through portals to get up to mischief! This means you play the game anywhere you want in your home (or outside, I guess!) and the "terrain" is all the random junk you have littered on your tables, shelves and countertops!

Pics!

I think this is a great idea. Models are ok and plenty of scope for more cool stuff.

Very cool concept, looks like it could be a lot of fun and a great intro wargame for kids since it plays on the imagination and uses different parts of the house.

Excellent concept, seems obvious when you see it, and yet no one has really thought of it.

Some extras now available!



New faction unlocked!



Booster up next!



Another faction soon!

 SkaerKrow wrote:
Excellent concept, seems obvious when you see it, and yet no one has really thought of it.

The portal thing is a new twist on it, but Fairy Meat was a similar idea of a '1:1 scale' wargame to play anywhere.

 insaniak wrote:

 SkaerKrow wrote:
Excellent concept, seems obvious when you see it, and yet no one has really thought of it.

The portal thing is a new twist on it, but Fairy Meat was a similar idea of a '1:1 scale' wargame to play anywhere.

Fairy Meat is one of the most known 1:1 scale wargames, but the theme did't help it at all, this has a lot of potential.

Sculpts are a mixed bag for me, wish there were more gems than average models in there, still a great idea with a logical background to support it.

Zynvaded had the same gimmick, IIRC.

Coming from Vesper, of Carnivale helps too.

 SkaerKrow wrote:
Excellent concept, seems obvious when you see it, and yet no one has really thought of it.

Lol. Yes, it has been 'thought of' one way or another many, many times.

That does not mean this is a bad idea, and I love the execution so far. If the game rules are as kid-friendly as has been represented, then even better.

This product, at this time, is (dare I say) rather well timed. It hits the 80s-90s nostalgia of gamers who are now grown and have kids. It is tailored to appeal directly to that demographic (of which I am a part) with 'wargaming' quality metal miniatures of relatively simple and robust design. Ergo, it is a great intro product for young gamers. The setting is clever, but light hearted. There's no blood and gore, for example.

Ironically, I recently picked up a copy of Fairy Meat to play with my 4 year old.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Sculpts are a mixed bag for me, wish there were more gems than average models in there, still a great idea with a logical background to support it.

Agreed.

That said, I like that the designs are simple and robust. They will stand a lot of knocking around, require no assembly, and should paint up reasonably well with little fingers at the brush.

Thus far, I think Vesper has done a decent job within those philosophical limitations.

This is extremely clever! If my son was younger I'd be all over it.

My concern is pricing, Lords of Dust looked cool but the KS price alone, without sculpts, is eye watering IMO as are some of the figure add on price. Nice idea but value wise as a product it's not great outside of the box set.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
My concern is pricing, Lords of Dust looked cool but the KS price alone, without sculpts, is eye watering IMO as are some of the figure add on price. Nice idea but value wise as a product it's not great outside of the box set.

~$8/model (regular retail price) is pretty reasonable. It is a touch steep for a game that requires units of models, as opposed to singles, but the units are small. If you needed 6 models for a unit, instead of 3, it would be a little pricey in terms of cost to play. If that were the case, I'd be looking for something closer to $5/model.

But for the number of models you will have on the table, $8/model is a decent price. It is certainly less than either Infinity or Freebooter's Fate, for example. For $8 though, I'd want top notch mode quality.

Now that I have watched the gameplay video, I'm a little less jazzed about the product. I'm going to back the campaign and probably get a set of all of the unlocked factions, but the game has some elements that I think are a little too/unnecessarily complex.

personally, I'm not a giant fan of multiple dice types. Add to that the color-coded abilities that you need a separate reference to keep track of and now the game is getting a little complex. Throw in using a tape measure and variable weapon ranges...now I'm not so sure I can play with my young kids without simplifying the rules. There's also lots of dice to roll, in my opinion. 1 white, 2 red, 3 black just seems a little needlessly complex, in my opinion.

I've played games that use a similar variable die type mechanic, and it definitely adds a little layer of complexity that, combined with everything else in the rules, makes me a little hesitant.

Has there been any mention of how big the models actually are? I think the models here are closer to 54mm tall, judging by the random stuff in the backgrounds, but it'd be nice to know for sure.

 Goremaul wrote:
Has there been any mention of how big the models actually are? I think the models here are closer to 54mm tall, judging by the random stuff in the backgrounds, but it'd be nice to know for sure.

About 30mm. You can tell by watching the gameplay video.

For me the problem is simple. I find the box set a reasonable price at $126 for everything you need to play the game (gems, wound markers, rules), 2 base factions + 2 add-on characters per faction (KS unlocks). Now say you hate lilly (me) and instead would love to go Penguins and Gremlins...You are looking at $172 for the same amount of minis as in the starter, but nothing else. No rule book, no gems, no wound marker, no dice. All of which isn't even available as an add-on. So with two factions and the dice (all you can do atm) you are looking at $184 for about 23 models + 1 set of dice.

Compare that to WWX, a company I thought was crazy overpriced (still think they are at retail) and for $165 you get 54 high quality plastic models + hard cover rules + plastic template set + character cards and a novel for the heck of it.....I like the concept and if they allowed a pick your faction (equivalent to the $126 one with add-ons) starter set for say $150 I would be on board and feel that this is reasonable. For now though I am on the fence trying to decide if I will just wait and maybe pick it up retail or not. Who knows, maybe the value will get there for me, but $172 for 20-22 figures and a set of dice is not there for KS value, maybe retail.

Edit: also, I like the concept, it looks fun and I may get into it for real, but it would be initially a purchase for my daughter and I to tinker with, maybe that's why I am less forgiving on the price. But I do think it would be fine at the $150 for everything deal I mention above.

other edits: Edit: counted the exact number of models and updates prices.

Rhinosaur09 wrote:
For me the problem is simple. I find the box set a reasonable price at $126 for everything you need to play the game (gems, wound markers, rules), 2 base factions + 2 add-on characters per faction (KS unlocks). Now say you hate lilly (me) and instead would love to go Penguins and Gremlins...You are looking at $172 for the same amount of minis as in the starter, but nothing else. No rule book, no gems, no wound marker, no dice. All of which isn't even available as an add-on. So with two factions and the dice (all you can do atm) you are looking at $184 for about 23 models + 1 set of dice.

Compare that to WWX, a company I thought was crazy overpriced (still think they are at retail) and for $165 you get 54 high quality plastic models + hard cover rules + plastic template set + character cards and a novel for the heck of it.....I like the concept and if they allowed a pick your faction (equivalent to the $126 one with add-ons) starter set for say $150 I would be on board and feel that this is reasonable. For now though I am on the fence trying to decide if I will just wait and maybe pick it up retail or not. Who knows, maybe the value will get there for me, but $172 for 20-22 figures and a set of dice is not there for KS value, maybe retail.

Edit: also, I like the concept, it looks fun and I may get into it for real, but it would be initially a purchase for my daughter and I to tinker with, maybe that's why I am less forgiving on the price. But I do think it would be fine at the $150 for everything deal I mention above.

other edits: Edit: counted the exact number of models and updates prices.

Where are you getting these prices? I'm looking at a $70 pledge for everything you need to play the game. If you got two units, leader, and another model from the Lords of Dust, that would be another $60 in add-ons. That's $110 (+ ~20 shipping). That's 3 factions, each with two 3 model units plus a leader, another model, and a bonus miniature. And the total with shipping is only $130.

If you want everything from two factions, sure it would be more I suppose. These aren't plastic models. They are metal, right? $8/model is a little spendy, but the KS prices are about $6/model. For a fantasy game, you are going to be hard pressed to find models much cheaper than that at full retail. ~$5/model is pretty bog standard for metal miniatures unless you are dealing with mass battle historicals.

Don't forget free worldwide shipping if you spend £80 or more.

I had no idea how much I wanted Egypquins until I saw them...

Lords of Dust booster unlocked!



Also Fair Folk faction unlocked!



Fair Folk booster up next!

Hey Weebie I got my prices right from the KS. I will state again in case you missed it, I have no issue with the starter box price. I have issue with the price disparity of trying to pick two factions and have a comparable final product at a reasonable price. This KS does not allow for this. Lets break it down so it may be easier to see. Keep in mind the KS is not in dollars, but in British pounds.

Option 1:

Starter Set which includes 14 figures (Gremlins and Lilly), their gems, damage markers, rulebook, a set of dice and 1 free figure for getting the box. Total: 45 pounds.
Add to this the unlocked add-ons for the box set factions. Total: 36 pounds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Price: 81 pounds, which is $125.08 at the current exchange rate ( I posted $126 on my post). This is the total price for everything you need to play the game as well as 2 complete factions (unless more figures are unlocked). This is a total of 23 figures. I do not find this a bad deal and is pretty on par with things like Infinity.

My problem is if you do not want the box set because you do not like a faction in it (lilly I hate you!). If a person wanted two factions (one of which is still the Gremlins) and was trying to make the content comparable to what comes inside the box set option above, this is what happens:

Option 2: Pick 2

Gremlins: 59 Pounds for one of each figure currently unlocked (RAF pilot no longer free). This will be 10 or 11 figures, unsure if the climbers are one or will be forged as two.

Penguins: 52 Pounds for one of each figure currently unlocked (Cleo is free). This is for 11 figures.

Dice: 8 pounds

Everything else in the box set: No option to buy atm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: 119 pounds, which is $183.77 at the current exchange rate for a two faction set, if you do not want the starter box. This does not include everything in the $126 starter box, has 1 less figure, and requires more purchasing to get everything you need.

Both options result in free shipping. The KS discount price is actually about $7.79 per model in the pick 2 factions option and $5.47 a model in the box set option above, if you assume everything else included in the set is free. I feel a fair price for the pick two option would be around $150 and should include all the stuff you need to play the game. You are getting the same or less figures and paying a reasonable premium just to pick a faction. In this case it would bring the cost per figure down to $6.80 if we assume all other needed materials are free.

I compared to WWX because its an equally small company that works in high quality plastics (which I think is more expensive). Comparatively, $165 got a backer 54 high quality plastic models + hard cover rules + plastic template set + character cards and a novel for the heck of it. Which is about $3.05 a figure if you assume everything else was free. I also compared to WWX because it is a game I will not buy retail because of the high prices, but will on sale or in a KS. Sure WWX did receive more money, but a lot of that was simple because the better deal during KS and I think you would see the same effect if this KS was handled that way. This game for me does not have the value yet and is too expensive. I hope that changes or I hope they offer a pick 2 faction offer that is reasonable and comparable. That's just me though. I am very excited about the concept however and I will stay in till the end and decide then. I am in no rush to jump ship lol.

weeble1000 wrote:

Rhinosaur09 wrote:
For me the problem is simple. I find the box set a reasonable price at $126 for everything you need to play the game (gems, wound markers, rules), 2 base factions + 2 add-on characters per faction (KS unlocks). Now say you hate lilly (me) and instead would love to go Penguins and Gremlins...You are looking at $172 for the same amount of minis as in the starter, but nothing else. No rule book, no gems, no wound marker, no dice. All of which isn't even available as an add-on. So with two factions and the dice (all you can do atm) you are looking at $184 for about 23 models + 1 set of dice.

Compare that to WWX, a company I thought was crazy overpriced (still think they are at retail) and for $165 you get 54 high quality plastic models + hard cover rules + plastic template set + character cards and a novel for the heck of it.....I like the concept and if they allowed a pick your faction (equivalent to the $126 one with add-ons) starter set for say $150 I would be on board and feel that this is reasonable. For now though I am on the fence trying to decide if I will just wait and maybe pick it up retail or not. Who knows, maybe the value will get there for me, but $172 for 20-22 figures and a set of dice is not there for KS value, maybe retail.

Edit: also, I like the concept, it looks fun and I may get into it for real, but it would be initially a purchase for my daughter and I to tinker with, maybe that's why I am less forgiving on the price. But I do think it would be fine at the $150 for everything deal I mention above.

other edits: Edit: counted the exact number of models and updates prices.

Where are you getting these prices? I'm looking at a $70 pledge for everything you need to play the game. If you got two units, leader, and another model from the Lords of Dust, that would be another $60 in add-ons. That's $110 (+ ~20 shipping). That's 3 factions, each with two 3 model units plus a leader, another model, and a bonus miniature. And the total with shipping is only $130.

If you want everything from two factions, sure it would be more I suppose. These aren't plastic models. They are metal, right? $8/model is a little spendy, but the KS prices are about $6/model. For a fantasy game, you are going to be hard pressed to find models much cheaper than that at full retail. ~$5/model is pretty bog standard for metal miniatures unless you are dealing with mass battle historicals.

Ah, I see what you mean now.

The problem, as you see it, is that there is no option to get the gameplay materials with factions other than those that come in the starter set.

Well, depending on Vesper's supply chain, that might be an issue they cannot easily change.

If, for example, Vesper was receiving the boxes and gameplay materials separately and packing in house, then they could deliberately 'mis-pack' a backer's starter box with alternate miniatures.

But Vesper might be having the starter boxes packed/wrapped/palletized by a third party, in which case you couldn't easily create alternate starter boxes.

That said, what are those materials aside from the special dice and the rulebook? Those are all you really need in terms of the game materials. It might go a long way if Vesper can offer a set of dice as an optional add-on, and at least publish the rules as a PDF (preferably a free download).

They do have a $10 add anything in the inner space section pledge and Dice are included there as an add-on (included in my $$ totals), so I think they are packing themselves, at least to some extent. As for what is missing. I think all that is missing now (I believe they said character gems, the ones pulled to see turn order, will be included with models) that a 2 faction (not starter box) purchaser is unable to purchase is a printed rulebook and wound markers and a reasonable price. If the wound markers and a printed rulebook were included with 2 factions at a premium price of $150, I think it would be a fair all inclusive price of $6.80 a miniature. As it is now, it is still 183.77 ($7.79) a miniature without a printed rulebook or damage markers. I just think a roughly $34 premium cost of picking your own 2 factions is a little steep as is, especially since there is no printed rules or damage markers included. Even if they were included, I don't think I can get behind almost $8 each for metal minis. I hope the deal gets sweetened because I love the concept and there is currently not much difference between KS and final retail prices. Its sad, because I have been waiting for this for months and I think if the deal for picking 2 factions was better, this could really take off. There are more than a few asking for the option.

Well, $8/model is pretty middle of the road in terms of pricing metal wargaming models, even in a Kickstarter. Take a look at Wolsung, for example.

Comparing the cost of another model range isn't exactly apropos, and if you don't see the value here, that's perfectly reasonable.

That said, the starter box is a comparatively great value, considering that you are getting 15 models for 70 bucks, which is less than $5/model, not including the rulebook, dice, and other gameplay materials.

You want the value of the starter box with a pick and choose set of models, it seems. That might not be economically feasible, as $4/model needs to have a lot of volume behind it to be economically viable.

I am not sure how you can say I want the pick 2 option at a starter box price. I clearly say I do not. My pick 2 option has the minis at a price of $6.80 per miniature which is I feel much more than the current $5.47 per miniature of the box + both unlocked minis per boxed faction and way more fair than the current $7.79 a mini + not receiving everything you need to play the game of the current pick 2 option. As for the price being middle of the road, that's fine (although you have also said that $5 is pretty much standard before), but I still think its too high. I will stay with my plastics in that case and just sub in models. Also Wolsung is not a real good comparison considering all the freebies, 2 hard cover and much bigger rulebooks and so on. You also need to consider the game system and how many models are required. I do not think these games compare well, but thats me.

Rhinosaur09 wrote:
I am not sure how you can say I want the pick 2 option at a starter box price. I clearly say I do not. My pick 2 option has the minis at a price of $6.80 per miniature which is I feel much more than the current $5.47 per miniature of the box + both unlocked minis per boxed faction and way more fair than the current $7.79 a mini + not receiving everything you need to play the game of the current pick 2 option. As for the price being middle of the road, that's fine (although you have also said that $5 is pretty much standard before), but I still think its too high. I will stay with my plastics in that case and just sub in models. Also Wolsung is not a real good comparison considering all the freebies, 2 hard cover and much bigger rulebooks and so on. You also need to consider the game system and how many models are required. I do not think these games compare well, but thats me.

We are quibbling over details, really. You don't think the value is good. That's the broad point.

That said, the value is substantially there, with the principle exception that you can't get a rulebook with the models you want without buying other, cheaper models along with the rules and gameplay materials. That's a fair enough point for sure.

Although I do find it odd that when the issue you have is primarily related to accessing the rules along with the models that you would want at an overall 'fair' price, your proposed solution is to use alternate models. In that case, you're still left without the rules, the dice, the cards, etc. and you don't have the models that you, presumably, were interested in for their visual aesthetic. At the end of the day, are you just looking for a game to play? If so, then all you really want are the rules, yes?

As far as Wolsung goes, it is a pretty darn good comparison in terms of the model count and production material, if not the structure of the Kickstarter. In Home Raiders, it looks like you are going to be putting around 10 models on the table. That's very similar to Wolsung. It is similar to Freebooter's Fate and Infinity as well.

That's because these are all skirmish games in a similar 'scale' (which I use loosely to refer to the general size/bulk of the models). They play with a small enough number of models on the table to provide individual attention to each model within the game rules. The difference between all three of those games and Home Raiders is that the Home Raiders models are cheaper than the models for all three of these other games.

$5/model is a very common price band for metal fantasy miniatures. Infinity models are going to run you closer to $10-15. Several skirmish games with metal models fall somewhere around $10/model. Lots of Reaper singles clock in north of $5, south of $8. Boutique singles tend to be closer to $8/model, e.g. Red Box Games.

At $8/model you can have about 10 models for $100. If the game requires about 10 models per player that's about right in terms of cost to play, hence why the models tend to fall around that price range. If you need more like 15-20 models to play, $8/model is a little stiff in terms of cost-to-play. Not surprising, then, that you find another 'band' of $5/model pricing with games that tend to require closer to 15-20 models per player. $5/model gets you 20 models for $100. Two squads of 5 models, specialists, leaders, and a bulky model, like a monster or a small vehicle.

Historicals tend to be cheaper because customers often buy lots of models for rank and file troops. At ~$2/model you can get 50 models for $100. But plastic manufacturing tends to become feasible at those volumes. And just to be fair, since you mentioned WWEX, the one-click army bundles retail for $265. Regardless of what the Kickstarter pricing may have been, that's about on par with the retail price of Home Raiders, and the average per model retail price is about double Home Raiders.

At the end of the day, I think it is perfectly fair to say that Home Raiders is priced, as I mentioned, pretty middle-of-the-road in terms of the market. You get a comparatively steep discount with the starter set, and the Kickstarter pricing puts the models more on par with the $5/model price band. It is what it is, you know, and I can't really fault Vesper for its pricing. To do so would effectively be saying that a huge swatch of the market is over-priced. If you compare Kickstarter to Kickstarter, well then you may have more room to quibble, but that's why Kickstarter is the ing Devil.

First, sorry for the sub model confusion, that's my fault and that sentence should have been clear. I guess that's what happens when your juggling a little one and trying to type lol. The gist I was trying to say is that at the $7.79 per model when buying two factions without everything (not just rules, but also damage tokens), I might as well get the base starter and just sub the figures out that I dislike (lilly) and use plastics I already have to make the game more visually appealing. This is a silly game, I am sure I can figure a story out and it would mean getting the models at $5.47 each. But I would also need to figure out what to do with those faction cards heh.

As for model count, we have no idea how many models home raiders intends you to field. All that has been said is that there is around 550 (give or take 30) points in the box and it was not elaborated on if that was both factions combined or if each faction was that many points. It was also said that games up to 1,500 points are still playable, but I assume that would be the max for most people. So I have no way of comparing actual needs to Wulsong, Infinity, Mercs, Malifaux or what....No real point of reference yet and comparing the two KS is hard because the components and whole KS set up is so different imho. One example of differences that price would need to account for is that in this game we are getting a 10 page rule pamphlet found in most easy board games. The other games price had to account for two much bigger hardcover rule books.

Also, I do not know where you buy your infinity models, but please stop lol. I can get them for under $6 each depending on which models very easily via Miniature Market or The War Store. As far as WWX...I said very clearly I would never buy it retail because of its high price and was comparing the KS price of pick 2 armies ($3.05 per mini with everything you need) to the KS Home Raiders price (7.79 per model with no rules or damage tokens). When comparing the two KS of two new and small companies (one using higher priced plastics) I was showing the huge difference in price per model. Also yes, WWX made more money, but its because their deals during KS. I used that example as well because of how much I hate WWX none KS or sale prices.

That said, I have repeatedly said their box set + 2 unlocked models for box faction is a very fair $126 or $5.47 per model. I do not agree that the per model price is as fair and find it a little high personally. Especially when you consider that buying the starter box, completing both factions in it (with what's unlocked) and then completing an entire 3rd faction is only $17 more expensive than picking your own two factions with not everything included. That's an over $60 fee for picking two factions separately. They could work with that.

You also keep stating a $5 per model price, but even that is not accurate and is low balling it. I did the math, did the currency conversion and what I am comparing are the correct numbers. I also have never faulted Versper-on for their price. Its their game, they can do what they want. I just feel that the pick two faction option could be a little more friendly. As for the market being over priced, who knows...there is always someone that will find worth in anything and pay it. That said, you quote higher prices for your quotes like Infinity (only one checked other than WWX) and lower prices for Home Raiders then is reality, which I find funny. But we disagree and that is fine. I will leave this here because I feel like we are just chasing our own tails now lol.

Rhinosaur09 wrote:
As for model count, we have no idea how many models home raiders intends you to field. All that has been said is that there is around 550 (give or take 30) points in the box and it was not elaborated on if that was both factions combined or if each faction was that many points. It was also said that games up to 1,500 points are still playable, but I assume that would be the max for most people.

You could always just look at the free downloadable stat cards they link to on the project's main page and use the powers of basic maths to determine that the starter comes with 580 points per side

They said you can play up to 1500 without much hassle. I expect 700-750 to be the magic number.

Edit - Added Orkmoticon to reflect jovial nature. Sorry to offend!

Oh that's cute.

misunderstanding and could not figure out how to delete