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Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

Normally, I'll admit, I am not a huge Historical Gamer. I've played Flames of War once and it was fun, had a great time with a Civil War game called Fire and Fury and that was great, but none of them have gotten my whole attention until Bolt Action. For me, for some reason, something really clicks, and I am loving the feel of a lot of the rules, and all of the armies, even in the CRB, have some really good historically accurate rules, and the forces shown in the book, and I really can see myself getting into any of them. So, my questions are this really.
1. What is a good way to start the game. I've seen the 1000 point starter armies and was wondering if those are really the best way to get into the game, and what group is good to start with, because I'm really interested in Finland, but was concerned if they were hard to use and it might be best to start with something else

2. What things should I try and Un-learn from other games I play, like Warmachine and the Warhammer games, just some mentality changes I should get used to.

3. Is it worth it to maybe try and connect battles together? I have had fun with this before, and it's great, but I was wondering if I should consider each fight in Bolt Action to be unconnected. And I mean more in showing battle damage on tanks I've used for a while, maybe punch a couple small bullet holes in a standard if the guy holding it took a few hits, stuff like that.

4. What are some good ways to customize my stuff and keep it historically accurate? Like adding some custom pinup girls or something to the side of a tank, or adding little bits to random helmets and things like that, without breaking the historical feel of the game

5. What is a decent point value to start out? Is 1,000 points a good way to begin, or should I try smaller for learning the game.

6. I was also interested in Black Powder, I have interest in the Napoleonic era and it has some really nice miniatures, would getting a grasp of Bolt Action give me an idea of how Black Powder works?

Any help would be appreciated guys, thanks!

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Normally, I'll admit, I am not a huge Historical Gamer. I've played Flames of War once and it was fun, had a great time with a Civil War game called Fire and Fury and that was great, but none of them have gotten my whole attention until Bolt Action. For me, for some reason, something really clicks, and I am loving the feel of a lot of the rules, and all of the armies, even in the CRB, have some really good historically accurate rules, and the forces shown in the book, and I really can see myself getting into any of them. So, my questions are this really.
1. What is a good way to start the game. I've seen the 1000 point starter armies and was wondering if those are really the best way to get into the game, and what group is good to start with, because I'm really interested in Finland, but was concerned if they were hard to use and it might be best to start with something else

2. What things should I try and Un-learn from other games I play, like Warmachine and the Warhammer games, just some mentality changes I should get used to.

3. Is it worth it to maybe try and connect battles together? I have had fun with this before, and it's great, but I was wondering if I should consider each fight in Bolt Action to be unconnected. And I mean more in showing battle damage on tanks I've used for a while, maybe punch a couple small bullet holes in a standard if the guy holding it took a few hits, stuff like that.

4. What are some good ways to customize my stuff and keep it historically accurate? Like adding some custom pinup girls or something to the side of a tank, or adding little bits to random helmets and things like that, without breaking the historical feel of the game

5. What is a decent point value to start out? Is 1,000 points a good way to begin, or should I try smaller for learning the game.

6. I was also interested in Black Powder, I have interest in the Napoleonic era and it has some really nice miniatures, would getting a grasp of Bolt Action give me an idea of how Black Powder works?

Any help would be appreciated guys, thanks!


Welcome to Bolt Action! While I might not be the most experienced player I can offer some tips.

1: This really depends on your group. If no one in your group plays Bolt Action then I would highly recommend the D-day firefight starter set. It contains everything you need to play a limited game of Bolt Action and it gives you a nice starting force for the Germans and the Americans. If there are people who do play the game then just get the faction starter sets. They are, to my knowledge, all solid and you get a nice deal. Faction selection isn't that important as it would be in Warhammer or Warmachine as most infantry and weapons are the same across all lists but every faction has it's own special rules to make them stand out. Americans, for example, are more mobile as they can accurately fire on the movie. Germans have better Machine Guns. So, just go with what you like. However, if you don't go with any of the major factions you won't have much in the way of tanks and some factions, like the French, struggle with the big cats like Panthers or IS-2s.

2: You have to forget saves as you know them. Bolt Actions has no saves. Instead, it uses a wounding and hit modifier system. Cover does not provide saves. Instead, it makes a unit harder to hit. If a man is struck by a bullet he will most certainly die. That nice Field Grey tunic may be fashionable but is sure as heck ain't gonna stop a .30! Also, close combat works a lot different in Bolt action than it does in Warhammer or Warmachine. You just roll to wound each other. Whoever loses the most guys after that round of combat is wiped out and that is the end of it. Unless you have a special rule that lets your unit stick around but that is not very common.

3: That is entirely up to you. I say model some Battle Damage on your guys from the get go and just be done with it. Bolt Action has no built in campaign system to connect games but there is nothing stopping from doing it with your friends.

4: Ohhh that is very faction dependent. Pick a faction and people can give you advice on customization tips. There are a lot of ways to do it. For Germans, as an example. there is a wealth of ways you can make your Krauts stand out while keeping them historically accurate. You can have them wear helmet covers, soft caps, give a few of them articles of clothing made of camo cloth, change their color of their collar, have them all in 44 Dot camouflage with some minor conversion work if they are W-SS, give them captured weapons, determine what sort of infantry they are (Gebirgsjaeger, W-SS, Pioneers, Panzergrenadiers, Light Infantry etc.) and mix and match with the Early War/Grenadiers set. And that is just with their plastic infantry box alone.

5: 1,000 points is the standard level. For a starting point I would say.... 200-500 points.

6: No. Black Powder relies on massed formations rather than squad by squad combat.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/10 04:02:17


Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in hk
Nasty Nob






I think these are very good questions, and I'd be interested in answers to them from people who've been playing Bolt Action longer than I have.

I can respond to your question 4 as it relates to vehicles, although there's no short answer.

'Customising' your vehicles involves adding stowage, battle damage and weathering, and giving them specific (or unusual) camouflage and markings. There's no substitute for doing some research, and while many historical gamers have a library of reference books, these days there's plenty available on the internet (just stay away from anything related to World of Tanks - except maybe the Chieftain's Hatch videos).

While you can just buy some accessories and stick them onto your vehicle, or make a few random gouges in the armour, if you spend a bit of time looking at photos of the real thing you'll see that stowage, battle damage and weathering tried from vehicle to vehicle, and from army to army. For instance, tanks serving with the US and British Armies in Europe tended to carry large amounts of stowage (i.e. blanket rolls, crates etc). This reflected the demands of constantly advancing with overstretched logistics. As that campaign progressed, tankers began welding on spare tracks and adding sandbags as improvised protection against Panzerfausts. There is a lot of scope for individualising vehicles on this basis. Soviet tanks were normally fairly 'clean' of stowage, although the crews began to accumulate loot as they advanced into western Europe. German tanks also tended to be far less heavily stowed, except in North Africa and the early years of the Russian campaign. However, by 1944 a lot of German tanks were also sporting welded on track links as improvised armour. These kinds of additions look great, and make each of your vehicles unique. Even just few helmets and water bottles hanging from the turret can add interest and 'life' to a model.

One practical suggestion with stowage (apart from looking at photos) is to think about what it's attached to (and whether it's defying gravity) and whether it would interfere with the vehicle's functions.

Battle damage should probably be kept minimal. While a heavily armoured tank like a Tiger might keep running with multiple gouges from non-penetrating hits, it was rare to see tanks with serous battle damage still in action. Bear in mind that a single small penetration was enough to totally destroy a tank, and often did. On the other hand, damage to track guards and sideskirts was very common - in fact anything on a tank that wasn't actually armoured tended to get bent or ripped off after a while.

Allied tanks tended to be relatively monotone in colour, which is why stowage helps to individualise them. Some units had quite elaborate markings, so you can go to town with air recognition stars, turret numbers and the like. Late war German tanks offer a lot of scope for customisation, because the Germans introduced a 3-colour camouflage scheme which (usually) let it up to the units to paint their vehicles. This led to a great deal of variation, and is one of the reasons that German armour is so popular.

Weathering is a matter of personal taste, but I'd suggest that you don't overdo it. While tanks were normally pretty filthy, these are wargaming models, and if you coat them in mud and grime they can look pretty unappealing on the tabletop.

I haven't dealt with crew figures, but they're also a very good way of individualising a vehicle. Adding a crew figure also gives a vehicle a good focal point - the viewer's eye is always drawn to the human figures. From a gaming perspective, having a figure in the cupola is a good way of denoting a command vehicle.

Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about. These are my models (the painted ones are from a few years ago). There are good examples in threads in this sub-forum, many of which are considerably better than mine!

[Thumb - P1010503.JPG]
WIP Sherman with added stowage

[Thumb - terrain 002.jpg]
German armoured car with minimal weathering

[Thumb - PzrIV 008.jpg]
Heavily stowed Panzer IV

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/10 09:27:59


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett RIP 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

Hey, thanks for the responses guys! I'm definitely feeling like weathering some tanks and units, might go with a late war group, thinking around '44, so that should be cool to work with. I'll have to work a bit more on weathering definitely, I tend to think less is more, especially when a friend of mine goes WAY overboard on weathered effects, but that should be cool to work on. I'll have to look around for some stuff to add too, maybe a couple fuel tanks on the backs, I'll have to figure it out later, but I am really liking the idea of giving it some sandbags, but I'll save some of that for a while. Thanks guys, looks like I've got some purchases to plan out.

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Funny, we were just chatting about ideal points value for BA earlier this evening at our game night meet up. The consensus was 1000 points as it gives you plenty of room to build a good amount of variety into your list but the games are still decently quick, at least by miniatures gaming standards.

For the Tank War expansion, however, 1500 points is better as AFVs can be pretty expensive points-wise.

   
Made in us
Wing Commander





TCS Midway


1. What is a good way to start the game. I've seen the 1000 point starter armies and was wondering if those are really the best way to get into the game, and what group is good to start with, because I'm really interested in Finland, but was concerned if they were hard to use and it might be best to start with something else

The starter set is a good place if you need to be able to field enough for two people. Otherwise the 500pt/1000pt armies are pretty good. The Screaming Eagles and Red Devils boxes are good places to start airborne with.

2. What things should I try and Un-learn from other games I play, like Warmachine and the Warhammer games, just some mentality changes I should get used to.

Gameplay has a randomness to it. Pulling dice from the tin will heavily alter the pace of play from what you are used to. Pinning means you won't always be successful in your actions. Be prepared to not be able to do whatever you want when you want.

3. Is it worth it to maybe try and connect battles together? I have had fun with this before, and it's great, but I was wondering if I should consider each fight in Bolt Action to be unconnected. And I mean more in showing battle damage on tanks I've used for a while, maybe punch a couple small bullet holes in a standard if the guy holding it took a few hits, stuff like that.

Nothing stops BA from having connected battles, that is really a personal choice for you and your group.

4. What are some good ways to customize my stuff and keep it historically accurate? Like adding some custom pinup girls or something to the side of a tank, or adding little bits to random helmets and things like that, without breaking the historical feel of the game

Absolutely add some custom slogans/stowage to your tanks. That is not only personalized but 'historically accurate' as well. For minis, like others have said, add in weapons from other sets and/or use other company's minis.

5. What is a decent point value to start out? Is 1,000 points a good way to begin, or should I try smaller for learning the game.

500 points is perfectly reasonable to start out. You can get it all painted easily enough and you won't be overwhelmed. You won't see much in the way of tanks at this level though, armored cars and a transport would be more common at 500pts. 1000 pts seems plenty for most games.


On time, on target, or the next one's free

Gesta Normannorum - A historical minis blog
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474587.page

 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

Welcome to Bolt Action!
 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
1. What is a good way to start the game. I've seen the 1000 point starter armies and was wondering if those are really the best way to get into the game, and what group is good to start with, because I'm really interested in Finland, but was concerned if they were hard to use and it might be best to start with something else

There's a few ways to start.
D-Day Firefight - contains rules and two starter armies for USA and Germans. Perfect if you and a friend are unsure of what army you want to play as this will give you forces to play some battles with.
1000 Point Army - contains a full 1000 point army. You'll need a rulebook, army book, and order dice.
Just an infantry set! - This is the best way to start honestly. I have been running an Escalation League at my store and the dozen+ players all started at 300 point armies (we are now at 500 points). Any infantry box can get you to 300 points. The metal sets are usually enough for 400 points.
The plastic box sets give you enough for 2-3 squads plus an officer and often some teams (sniper teams, bazooka teams, Brits even have mortar teams, Sovs antitank rifle teams, all in the plastic sets)
The Finland box set is awesome as well as for a low price you get a cool infantry squad, recon squad, officers, and support weapons - PERFECT way to start.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
2. What things should I try and Un-learn from other games I play, like Warmachine and the Warhammer games, just some mentality changes I should get used to.

Bolt Action uses random activation - each unit gets one order die, from both sides, and those are jumbled together. The dice are pulled randomly, so you cannot always count on going first or even second. This elegant mechanic sets up tons of tactical decisions - your order dice is drawn, which unit to activate first? The unit that NEEDS to kill one of his units? Or the unit that is about to be killed by one of his units? OR, a unit that is lightly pinned and you need to activate it to move it into cover and unpin it, etc. Every pull of the order dice changes your battle plan and is perhaps the best implementation of the alternating activation mechanic in any game system.
Another thing- there are no invincible units! A 5 point panzerfaust can luckily take out a Soviet heavy IS-2 tank. Even inexperienced infantry can sometimes overwhelm and destroy elite veteran units. Warmachine relies on buffs and stacking bonuses... in Bolt Action, that's almost non-existent. Footslogging infantry can actually cap out at the number of dice they get in a close quarters fight!

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
3. Is it worth it to maybe try and connect battles together? I have had fun with this before, and it's great, but I was wondering if I should consider each fight in Bolt Action to be unconnected. And I mean more in showing battle damage on tanks I've used for a while, maybe punch a couple small bullet holes in a standard if the guy holding it took a few hits, stuff like that.

Sure, run mini campaigns with your friends, etc. The scenario books Warlord releases are great for those. If you're doing late 1944 then the Battleground Europe book has tons of scenarios all based on late war Europe.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
4. What are some good ways to customize my stuff and keep it historically accurate? Like adding some custom pinup girls or something to the side of a tank, or adding little bits to random helmets and things like that, without breaking the historical feel of the game

The best resource is to google pictures of WW2 tanks and you can see all the fun stuff that people did to them in real life. https://www.google.com/search?q=sherman+tank+graffiti&hl=en&biw=1920&bih=979&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RBpSVbCDFIKdgwTNsoGwBw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
5. What is a decent point value to start out? Is 1,000 points a good way to begin, or should I try smaller for learning the game.

500 points I think is the best place to start. You'll usually have around 6-8 order dice per side which will really show you the elegance of the order dice system. Plus it'll give you the 2+ squads and 1 officer required, and allow you to also play around with mortars, machine gun teams, maybe an elite squad, sniper team, etc. After 500 maybe add vehicles, like a light tank or armored car, a truck for transport, artillery piece, etc.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
6. I was also interested in Black Powder, I have interest in the Napoleonic era and it has some really nice miniatures, would getting a grasp of Bolt Action give me an idea of how Black Powder works?

They are two totally different game systems. Black Powder, Pike & Shotte, and Hail Caesar all share a similar core rules set, but Bolt Action has nothing in common with them.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Any help would be appreciated guys, thanks!

Enjoy! Bolt Action is pretty much my favorite game because it's so fun to play and the rules are so transparent - once you learn them in 2-3 games, you'll never be referencing the rulebook, which frees you up to actually enjoy and play the game!

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
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Executing Exarch




 Tailgunner wrote:
Weathering is a matter of personal taste, but I'd suggest that you don't overdo it. While tanks were normally pretty filthy, these are wargaming models, and if you coat them in mud and grime they can look pretty unappealing on the tabletop.


Something else to keep in mind is that crews tended to clean their tanks when they had the chance. So while some weathering effects are appropriate, going nuts is ahistorical.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Charleston, SC, USA

I second picking up a box of plastic infantry and going from there. So easy. So inexpensive.
   
Made in gb
Brigadier General





The new Sick Man of Europe

Unfortunately I cannot recommend single troop box games [and that includes D-day firefight, WG's starter sets usually suck] for anything other than a 5 min demo to show the very basics of the ruleset. If only Warlord's rulesets didn't have heavy simplifications [compared to GW, Corvus, etc] and were clearly suited to having numerous platoons of soldiers on the tabletop [which it does very well though]

DC:90+S+G++MB++I--Pww211+D++A++/fWD390R++T(F)DM+
 
   
Made in hk
Nasty Nob






Eumerin wrote:
Something else to keep in mind is that crews tended to clean their tanks when they had the chance. So while some weathering effects are appropriate, going nuts is ahistorical.


During the latter stages of WW2, that chance rarely arose. Crews rarely had the time or inclination to wash their vehicles. Allied tanks in particular seem to have carried months' worth of accumulated dirt and grim - assuming they lasted that long.

Where a lot of people go overboard with weathering is with mud effects, to the extent that the vehicle no long looks as though it could actually move, and rusting/chipping, which is often so extensive that the vehicle looks as though it's an archaeological relic. But weathering adds interest and drama to models, and a degree of artistic licence is accepted. Rather like the heavy shading and highlighting that is common with wargaming figures.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/13 04:05:45


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett RIP 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I find one problem with overweathering a model is it detracts from the sense of scale, which is arguably the best reason for doing it in the first place (so it is easy to see why people can get carried away).

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

 Tailgunner wrote:
Eumerin wrote:
Something else to keep in mind is that crews tended to clean their tanks when they had the chance. So while some weathering effects are appropriate, going nuts is ahistorical.


During the latter stages of WW2, that chance rarely arose. Crews rarely had the time or inclination to wash their vehicles. Allied tanks in particular seem to have carried months' worth of accumulated dirt and grim - assuming they lasted that long.

Where a lot of people go overboard with weathering is with mud effects, to the extent that the vehicle no long looks as though it could actually move, and rusting/chipping, which is often so extensive that the vehicle looks as though it's an archaeological relic. But weathering adds interest and drama to models, and a degree of artistic licence is accepted. Rather like the heavy shading and highlighting that is common with wargaming figures.


The painters Warlord Games uses for their tanks go a little overboard with their weathering, imo. Sometimes I think they used wrecks that were pulled out of a swamp as a reference picture!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/13 14:20:57


Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in gb
Brigadier General





The new Sick Man of Europe

Yeah, I've noticed some of the Warlord's painted tanks do look a bit more weathered and ill-maintained than would be practical. Guess it's the Studio painters' way of covering up their lack of skill compared to their equivalents at Privateer or CB etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/14 21:28:27


DC:90+S+G++MB++I--Pww211+D++A++/fWD390R++T(F)DM+
 
   
Made in hk
Nasty Nob






That's a rather unfair comment. The people who paint Warlord's vehicle models actually do quite a good job. They go for a fairly realistic style, so the models aren't as pretty as the style normally adopted for fantasy/sci-fi models. They're certainly not excessively weathered by WW2 standards.

We're probably going a bit off topic here...

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett RIP 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

I would recommend that the OP visit the Warlord games forums for more tips on how to build an army. Generally speaking, the maxim for Orks of "Boys before toys" applies to Bolt Action as well.

Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 sing your life wrote:
Unfortunately I cannot recommend single troop box games [and that includes D-day firefight, WG's starter sets usually suck] for anything other than a 5 min demo to show the very basics of the ruleset. If only Warlord's rulesets didn't have heavy simplifications [compared to GW, Corvus, etc] and were clearly suited to having numerous platoons of soldiers on the tabletop [which it does very well though]


I would wholeheartedly recommend D-Day Firefight for two new players - the scenarios are well designed to teach you the rules and helps you learn the vital differences between troop quality and also the importance of order dice.
But of course Bolt Action is a far, far more elegant system than any GW or even CB ever designed: it is transparent and emulates modern warfare better than any other ruleset attempting to accomplish the same thing within a short game length.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 sing your life wrote:
Yeah, I've noticed some of the Warlord's painted tanks do look a bit more weathered and ill-maintained than would be practical. Guess it's the Studio painters' way of covering up their lack of skill compared to their equivalents at Privateer or CB etc.


Haha, no. GW's staff painters paint GW toys as they are, large scale toys, with very bright eye-popping colors. This is very specifically the reason that GW's staff painters edge highlight to white. Same for PP And CB.

No real tank ever in the history of the world used in actual warfare ever looked like anything GW, PP, CB has ever produced or painted. That is why they are fantasy/science fiction, whereas historicals are based off of reality.

Reality:
Spoiler:



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/16 16:33:27


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
 
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