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With these two datasheet not included in the new Imperial Knight Codex, does that mean these two Knights are not playable any longer?

 Johnnytorrance wrote:
With these two datasheet not included in the new Imperial Knight Codex, does that mean these two Knights are not playable any longer?

Gerantius is still fair game for regular games of Warhammer 40k. Note though, that he's not a Lord of War and therefore can't be included in the new Imperial Knights detachment as it requires Lords of War. He's an "Other" battlefield role, as denoted by the IK head logo on his datasheet. He CAN be included in the various Formation, so long as his equipment meets the criteria. He can't be in the SkyWhatever one, because he doesn't have the right guns.

The Obsidian Knight is from an Apocalypse book, so has never been allowed in normal games of Warhammer 40k. If you agree with your friends, you can use him, but it would be a house rule.

What Kriswall said. Though I think most opponents would have no problem with you fielding Gerantius in a House Hold detachment given he is eligible for the Formations (and gain more of a boost from the later like a 2++).

Would Gerantius be able to be an imperial knights warlord? His rules say he can't have a warlord trait, but not that can't be your warlord.

Also can he take household heirlooms?


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Would he be able to benefit from the Exalted Household formation? If he was the leading knight he could have a 2+ invul save, ws7 bs7, IWND, his shoot and run, + heirlooms.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Would Gerantius be able to be an imperial knights warlord? His rules say he can't have a warlord trait, but not that can't be your warlord.

Also can he take household heirlooms?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would he be able to benefit from the Exalted Household formation? If he was the leading knight he could have a 2+ invul save, ws7 bs7, IWND, his shoot and run, + heirlooms.

Gerantius is not a Lord of War (he's an 'Other'), and so can never be included in either of the Codex: Imperial Knights detachments.

He IS allowed in two Formations and can be given Heirlooms of the Knightly Houses in some of them...

Exalted Court (5 Imperial Knights of any kind) - Can be included, can be Warlord, can take Heirlooms.
Baronial Court (3-5 Imperial Knights of any kind) - Can be included, can be Warlord, can take Heirlooms if nominated as the Lord Baron

This is currently the only way to legally field him, other than playing Unbound.



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And yeah, he doesn't actually get a Warlord Trait.

 Kriswall wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Would Gerantius be able to be an imperial knights warlord? His rules say he can't have a warlord trait, but not that can't be your warlord.

Also can he take household heirlooms?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would he be able to benefit from the Exalted Household formation? If he was the leading knight he could have a 2+ invul save, ws7 bs7, IWND, his shoot and run, + heirlooms.

Gerantius is not a Lord of War (he's an 'Other'), and so can never be included in either of the Codex: Imperial Knights detachments.

He IS allowed in two Formations and can be given Heirlooms of the Knightly Houses in some of them...

Exalted Court (5 Imperial Knights of any kind) - Can be included, can be Warlord, can take Heirlooms.
Baronial Court (3-5 Imperial Knights of any kind) - Can be included, can be Warlord, can take Heirlooms if nominated as the Lord Baron

This is currently the only way to legally field him, other than playing Unbound.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yeah, he doesn't actually get a Warlord Trait.

Actually you can't take him in formations either. He is not generically an imperial knight as it isn't specified which is the case with all special characters. It is just like how for the Necron Royal Court formation they had to specify all of the special characters as options instead of just leaving it as "Necron Overlord"

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Would Gerantius be able to be an imperial knights warlord? His rules say he can't have a warlord trait, but not that can't be your warlord.

Also can he take household heirlooms?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would he be able to benefit from the Exalted Household formation? If he was the leading knight he could have a 2+ invul save, ws7 bs7, IWND, his shoot and run, + heirlooms.

Gerantius is not a Lord of War (he's an 'Other'), and so can never be included in either of the Codex: Imperial Knights detachments.

He IS allowed in two Formations and can be given Heirlooms of the Knightly Houses in some of them...

Exalted Court (5 Imperial Knights of any kind) - Can be included, can be Warlord, can take Heirlooms.
Baronial Court (3-5 Imperial Knights of any kind) - Can be included, can be Warlord, can take Heirlooms if nominated as the Lord Baron

This is currently the only way to legally field him, other than playing Unbound.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yeah, he doesn't actually get a Warlord Trait.

Actually you can't take him in formations either. He is not generically an imperial knight as it isn't specified which is the case with all special characters. It is just like how for the Necron Royal Court formation they had to specify all of the special characters as options instead of just leaving it as "Necron Overlord"

His datasheet quite clearly states that he is of the Imperial Knights Faction. As such, he is clearly a type of Imperial Knight. Sure, he's named and Unique, but he's still an Imperial Knight. Unless you're requiring the actual words "Imperial Knight" in the unit's name... in which case there are ZERO units called Imperial Knight Something.

Knight Errant... not called Imperial Knight Something
Knight Paladin... not called Imperial Knight Something
Knight Warden... not called Imperial Knight Something
Knight Gallant... not called Imperial Knight Something
Knight Crusader... not called Imperial Knight Something

Yet, we would consider all five of the above to be a type of Imperial Knight. Gerantius is also a type of Imperial Knight. The specific name is irrelevant. Were it relevant, NO units would fulfill the requirement.


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The Formations require, for example, 5 Imperial Knights (of any type). Please demonstrate, using rules, how a Knight Errant is an Imperial Knight in a way that doesn't ALSO allow Gerantius to be an Imperial Knight.

Maybe he is a Callidus... Lol

So I'm confused. CAN Gerantius be your warlord? Is there a requirement for your warlord to have a warlord trait?

I kinda figured they said he couldn't gain a warlord trait because then he could get basically 2 traits since he already has IWND.

The GW phone app just re-released Grenaticus's datasheet and painting guild from WDW, with the statement that he is still legal to play. I know we can take that with a grain of salt, but it is an official endorsement.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The GW phone app just re-released Grenaticus's datasheet and painting guild from WDW, with the statement that he is still legal to play. I know we can take that with a grain of salt, but it is an official endorsement.

SJ

Of course he's still legal to play... but the only way to field him are in the two Formations listed above or in an Unbound list.

 Kriswall wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The GW phone app just re-released Grenaticus's datasheet and painting guild from WDW, with the statement that he is still legal to play. I know we can take that with a grain of salt, but it is an official endorsement.

SJ

Of course he's still legal to play... but the only way to field him are in the two Formations listed above or in an Unbound list.

True, but in a Baronial Court, Grenaticus could sport a 2++ front arc save. Tell me that's a bad thing.

SJ

So if I had an imperial army, say space marines, and a xenos army, say tau, what part of the force organization chart (if I'm using a CAD) would Gerantius be included in? Is there a part in the rule book where it talks about units in an "other" slot?

 Buzzdady wrote:
So if I had an imperial army, say space marines, and a xenos army, say tau, what part of the force organization chart (if I'm using a CAD) would Gerantius be included in? Is there a part in the rule book where it talks about units in an "other" slot?

The 5 variant Knights that are included in the new Codex: Imperial Knights have the Imperial Knights faction. As such, they can't be included in a Space Marine army (or Xenos for that matter).

The "Other" Battlefield Role is discussed in the Battlefield Role section of the core rule book. I believe that Gerantius is the only model/army unit entry in the entire game right now with the "Other" Battlefield Role. There are currently ZERO detachments or formations with an "Other" slot. Gerantius can currently only be fielded in two specialized Imperial Knights formation. He can't even be taken in the standard IK detachments as he's not a Lord of War selection.

For context, the now obsolete 6th Edition Imperial Knights Codex listed all of the Knights as "Other" with the option to take them as a "Lord of War" choice in any Imperium of Mankind detachment or formation. The 7th Edition Codex changed them all from "Other" to "Lord of War" and took away the allowance to take them in any IoM detachment/formation. Now, you can only take Codex:IK Knights in an Imperial Knights detachment/formation. Most (if not all) of the Forgeworld Knights still have wording allowing them to be taken as Lord of War choices for IoM armies. I would expect this to eventually change to match the new Codex.

Now, having said all of that, the Imperial Knights Codex has an "Oathsworn Detachment" which allows you to take 1-3 Imperial Knights in their own Detachment and add them to literally any army.

Example 1
Space Marines Combined Arms Detachment
Imperial Knights Oathsworn Detachment

Example 2
Tau Empire Combined Arms Detachment
Eldar Allied Detachment
Imperial Knights Oathsworn Detachment

But knights in the oathsworn detachment are still all lords of war, so it can't include Gerantius right? What armies and in what ways could you take Gerantius? Since it's an "other" role would you still refer to the old imperial knights book, meaning that it could be taken by any army in an (older edition) imperial knight detachment (and it still wouldn't be a lord of war)?

 Buzzdady wrote:
But knights in the oathsworn detachment are still all lords of war, so it can't include Gerantius right? What armies and in what ways could you take Gerantius? Since it's an "other" role would you still refer to the old imperial knights book, meaning that it could be taken by any army in an (older edition) imperial knight detachment (and it still wouldn't be a lord of war)?

My bad for being confusing. I was talking about generic Knights. Gerantius can be taken precisely three ways...

Way #1 - Imperial Knights "Exalted Court" Formation which requires "5 Imperial Knights (of any type)" but makes no mention of Lords of War
Way #2 - Imperial Knights "Baronial Court" Formation which requires "3-5 Imperial Knights (of any type)" but makes no mention of Lords of War
Way #3 - As a selection in an Unbound army list

 Kriswall wrote:

 Buzzdady wrote:
But knights in the oathsworn detachment are still all lords of war, so it can't include Gerantius right? What armies and in what ways could you take Gerantius? Since it's an "other" role would you still refer to the old imperial knights book, meaning that it could be taken by any army in an (older edition) imperial knight detachment (and it still wouldn't be a lord of war)?

My bad for being confusing. I was talking about generic Knights. Gerantius can be taken precisely three ways...

Way #1 - Imperial Knights "Exalted Court" Formation which requires "5 Imperial Knights (of any type)" but makes no mention of Lords of War
Way #2 - Imperial Knights "Baronial Court" Formation which requires "3-5 Imperial Knights (of any type)" but makes no mention of Lords of War
Way #3 - As a selection in an Unbound army list

Oh, so him being in the "other" role doesn't allow him to be taken in any unique ways, instead it limits the ways he can be taken in the new Knights book? Man I was looking forward to running a knight that wasn't a lord of war in a non-Knights detachment.

 Buzzdady wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Buzzdady wrote:
But knights in the oathsworn detachment are still all lords of war, so it can't include Gerantius right? What armies and in what ways could you take Gerantius? Since it's an "other" role would you still refer to the old imperial knights book, meaning that it could be taken by any army in an (older edition) imperial knight detachment (and it still wouldn't be a lord of war)?

My bad for being confusing. I was talking about generic Knights. Gerantius can be taken precisely three ways...

Way #1 - Imperial Knights "Exalted Court" Formation which requires "5 Imperial Knights (of any type)" but makes no mention of Lords of War
Way #2 - Imperial Knights "Baronial Court" Formation which requires "3-5 Imperial Knights (of any type)" but makes no mention of Lords of War
Way #3 - As a selection in an Unbound army list

Oh, so him being in the "other" role doesn't allow him to be taken in any unique ways, instead it limits the ways he can be taken in the new Knights book? Man I was looking forward to running a knight that wasn't a lord of war in a non-Knights detachment.

Correct.

Before I read this thread, I had resolved to retiring Gerantius for being overcosted and not having the new weapon upgrade options. As a Warlord with a 2++ save, I think he just justified his points cost.