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Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy







So I want to see what everyone plans to do with the Kastelans tactics wise. Do you use the fnp to get them into that combat or do you sit back and pour shots into them? Opinions wanted.

'Nids growing soon
3500 pts. unpainted
Admech 1000 buying & building
If you don't enjoy playing against people with unpainted armies, break into their house when they sleep, paint their figures for them, help yourself to their cheerios and then your problems will be solved.
Well, my opponents usually don't have more than 1-2 Wave Serpents 'cos Serpent spam is very expensive in real life money.
GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Well standing still the unit does 11 MEQ attacks using the shooting protocol. Basicly they'll auto cleanse a marine units with their AP 2 attacks, but they wont beable to take advantage at thier quite decent assault stats and they wont do you any favors on the map.

FNP mode they run around and by at least turn 3 you'll get some assault in barring any canticle's of movement or special items that let them go quicker. Also each turn they are still puting out 7 almost 8 MEQ wounds a turn. Pretty much shutting down marine units.

This is assuming rumored formations are true that give them BS loosing the BS wounds all go down by around 1. I think FNP mode is best unless you catch a few juice targets in the open you can turn on shooter mode for a turn to take advantage of an enemies poors positions or force them to run for cover. Maybe making a unit have to run instead of shoot for a turn.
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

I quite like the look of the Cohort Cybernetica Formation.

You can field greater numbers of Kastellans have less chance of overkill because each Kastellan can choose a separate target to shoot at.



   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

Tough to get confirmed tactics without knowing the effect of the Cult Mech special rules.

Also the formations sound crazy. +1 BS and ignores cover sounds too good to be true.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine






 Exergy wrote:
Tough to get confirmed tactics without knowing the effect of the Cult Mech special rules.

Also the formations sound crazy. +1 BS and ignores cover sounds too good to be true.


I agree. It would make them auto take and.. just nasty to marines and a lot of others. I was planning on getting 2 squads of them and if that rumor is true I will be pretty happy.

9k  
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

 Swara wrote:
 Exergy wrote:
Tough to get confirmed tactics without knowing the effect of the Cult Mech special rules.

Also the formations sound crazy. +1 BS and ignores cover sounds too good to be true.


I agree. It would make them auto take and.. just nasty to marines and a lot of others. I was planning on getting 2 squads of them and if that rumor is true I will be pretty happy.


#scatbikecounters2015

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Not entirely relevant to the tactics, but why can't the super-deadly radiation guns that give their users super cancer be equipped to the Super Fighting Robots which are immune to cancer?

Because a longer-ranged and/or faster firing Radium gun who be an interesting choice on a Kastelan.
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Cleveland, Ohio, USA

Heir of the Void wrote:
Not entirely relevant to the tactics, but why can't the super-deadly radiation guns that give their users super cancer be equipped to the Super Fighting Robots which are immune to cancer?

Because a longer-ranged and/or faster firing Radium gun who be an interesting choice on a Kastelan.


Because that would require altering the existing STC which is heresy.

They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines, and they shall know no fear. 
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Heir of the Void wrote:
Not entirely relevant to the tactics, but why can't the super-deadly radiation guns that give their users super cancer be equipped to the Super Fighting Robots which are immune to cancer?

Because a longer-ranged and/or faster firing Radium gun who be an interesting choice on a Kastelan.


Because that would require altering the existing STC which is heresy.


Or would require a trait called 'common sense', which is displayed only by heretics.

   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Cleveland, Ohio, USA

 Otto Weston wrote:
 obsidiankatana wrote:
Heir of the Void wrote:
Not entirely relevant to the tactics, but why can't the super-deadly radiation guns that give their users super cancer be equipped to the Super Fighting Robots which are immune to cancer?

Because a longer-ranged and/or faster firing Radium gun who be an interesting choice on a Kastelan.


Because that would require altering the existing STC which is heresy.


Or would require a trait called 'common sense', which is displayed only by heretics.


Implying the word of the Omnissiah to be anything other than absolute unwavering truth and wisdom is heresy.

They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines, and they shall know no fear. 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut







Thanks for starting this topic and everyone for sharing their thoughts. I've been looking at different forums, gathering ideas.

 Exergy wrote:
Tough to get confirmed tactics without knowing the effect of the Cult Mech special rules.

Also the formations sound crazy. +1 BS and ignores cover sounds too good to be true.


UPDATE - new WD in hand featuring Kataphrons, confirming some implications here.

Yeah, we're still waiting confirmation for special rules, and I agree about that Elimination Maniple formation, as that's a Force Multiplier right there. To review, that formation requires, according to RUMOURS:


1-3 Kastelan Maniples (2 bots + 1 tech priest/unit, and the options you see in the White Dwarf)

2-3 Kastraphon Destroyer Servitors (3 models/unit, T5, 4+ save, 30" Heavy Grav Cannons as a free upgrade)


This setup leans towards using those units as long-range Dakka Dakka mode. Thus, we equip the Kastelans accordingly and swap the Power Fists for more Heavy Phosphorous Blasters. This is a very minor trade-off since they're Monstrous Creatures, so they can Smash in melee anyway. Their accompanying Destroyers use 30" Heavy Grav Cannons.

Theoretically, the Robots and Servitor Destroyers work in tandem. The Destroyers pop open Transports with their Grav Cannons; they'll die very soon, so it's just like doing as much damage as you can before they're dead. Once those troops are spilled out, whether in cover or not, the Kastelans start tearing them apart with all their shots. All this is done with the formation's +1 BS and Ignores Cover.

And I haven't included the "Canticles" special rules that Cult Mech apparently get, but whatever they are, I treat that as just extra bonuses.

The mix of Kastelan and Kataphron units is still a bit up in the air, but a 1:1 ratio seems about right (I myself am leaning towards 2 Kastelan Maniples and 2 Kastraphon Destroyers). Kastelan Robot seems to be the more intuitive: a big thing with big guns as a Heavy Support unit. The Kataphron Destroyers are weird; they're Troops, but they're more like Heavy Support units, just in the wrong slot!


---


The next question is, then what do you use for the rest of your army?

This formation, perhaps even the Cult Mechanicus codex overall, is a little bit counter-intuitive. Normally, we focus our points and our focus on the Combined Arms Detachment first. Here, it's actually this Elimination Maniple formation that takes up probably the most points and you build the strategy around that. And its gap lies in mainly ObSec.

And at that point, it seems like we go to whatever we're most comfortable with. I think it's going to look a lot like this:


Elimination Maniple + classic MEQ CAD of Space Marine HQ w/ 2 Tac Squads in Rhinos

Elimination Maniple + budget MEQ CAD of Space Marine HQ w/ Scout Squads

Elimination Maniple + biker MEQ Cad of Space Marine Bike Force (White Scars, Dark Angels, etc.)


Then you add some bells & whistles and that's about a good-sized 1500 pt army. What those bells & whistles are will depend on preferences, but I'm personally guessing people may take Void Shields just to give a little bit more survivability for the Grav Cannon Servitors, as they'll be the obvious target.


---


But let's be open here. A lot of these ideas are still based on rumours. I'm going to wait until the Codex comes out before I buy any more miniatures, but if this Elimination Maniple formation is confirmed, then I've already got a road map to work with. The above are just my ideas and opinions to contribute to the discussion, I'm not proclaiming I'm an expert here or that this is my final plan.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/18 00:26:49


   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Heir of the Void wrote:
Not entirely relevant to the tactics, but why can't the super-deadly radiation guns that give their users super cancer be equipped to the Super Fighting Robots which are immune to cancer?

Because a longer-ranged and/or faster firing Radium gun who be an interesting choice on a Kastelan.


Because that would require altering the existing STC which is heresy.


I thought the robots were preheresy constructs. putting anything on them is probably a bit of heresy.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Backwoods bunker USA

Heir of the Void wrote:
Not entirely relevant to the tactics, but why can't the super-deadly radiation guns that give their users super cancer be equipped to the Super Fighting Robots which are immune to cancer?

Because a longer-ranged and/or faster firing Radium gun who be an interesting choice on a Kastelan.


Actually, Ionizing Radiation CAN severely damage robots.

It can add or remove electrons even from inorganic material, causing all sorts of havoc. Bit flips will cause computers to act erratically; voltage spikes can short out circuits, oil can become more viscous and cause hydraulics to seize; or oil could become less viscous and cause engines to overheat, metal may become more brittle and crack, magnets may lose their magnetism or ordinary metals may become magnetized messing with electric motors or navigation, lenses can become couldy, and so on and so forth.

If you read about the nuclear plant disasters in Japan you'll see that they sent robots in and they all just malfunctioned because the level of radiation was so high.

That said, better to irradiate a disposable organic rather than break a 10,000 year old relic.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

 KiloFiX wrote:
Heir of the Void wrote:
Not entirely relevant to the tactics, but why can't the super-deadly radiation guns that give their users super cancer be equipped to the Super Fighting Robots which are immune to cancer?

Because a longer-ranged and/or faster firing Radium gun who be an interesting choice on a Kastelan.


Actually, Ionizing Radiation CAN severely damage robots.

It can add or remove electrons even from inorganic material, causing all sorts of havoc. Bit flips will cause computers to act erratically; voltage spikes can short out circuits, oil can become more viscous and cause hydraulics to seize; or oil could become less viscous and cause engines to overheat, metal may become more brittle and crack, magnets may lose their magnetism or ordinary metals may become magnetized messing with electric motors or navigation, lenses can become couldy, and so on and so forth.

If you read about the nuclear plant disasters in Japan you'll see that they sent robots in and they all just malfunctioned because the level of radiation was so high.

That said, better to irradiate a disposable organic rather than break a 10,000 year old relic.


So terminator was a lie?

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Same thing happened with the remote control bulldozers at Chernobyl.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/18 03:46:36


 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





McKenzie, TN

Radiation definitely messes with robots in some incredibly diverse ways (also can change the conductance of materials due to forming gap junctions in the material). However it is normally easier to "harden" the robots as they don't need to intake air. Thus you can line them completely with materials like lead without having any exposed openings. Not that this would be a good fix for something that would be shot at.

TBH teams working on radiation sites are usually assembled for an emergency thus purpose built mobile robots for these situations are extremely rare and usually barely functional prototypes. The USA actually has a series of robots just for radiation environments but I don't know how mobile they are. On the other hand the heyday of radioactive materials (50-70s) electronics were relatively poorly understood and so radiation suites are plentiful, well understood, and cheap.

It is definitely IoM like to strap these things on people rather than risk an expensive robot...life is cheap and all.
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Cleveland, Ohio, USA

 ansacs wrote:
It is definitely IoM like to strap these things on people rather than risk an expensive robot...life is cheap and all.


Most widely available resource to the Imperium.

They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines, and they shall know no fear. 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

 buddha wrote:


So terminator was a lie?


Only part of it.

The part where a robot traveled through time to kill the mother of his mainframe's nemesis before he was born. That was true.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
 
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