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There isn't. And there also isn't evidence that any Colts employee ... participated in conversations that reference deflating footballs.

Statements like this aren't actually based on facts/logic though, are they?

Have the Colts turned over all their records, emails, cell phones, texts?

We don't know what Andrew Luck has said or arranged with his equipment managers, do we?

Anyway, in terms actual news concerning this investigation, it is odd that Roger Goodell has set HIMSELF up to be the 'arbitrator' in this case - I'm not sure that's going to be accepted by the NFLPA, or if it is now 'do not visit Roger, go directly to court'.

 Alpharius wrote:

Anyway, in terms actual news concerning this investigation, it is odd that Roger Goodell has set HIMSELF up to be the 'arbitrator' in this case - I'm not sure that's going to be accepted by the NFLPA, or if it is now 'do not visit Roger, go directly to court'.

Goodell is protecting the NFL's 'shield' here and I think he has that plenary power.

How exactly could the NFL commissioner get fired? I think this is what needs to happen but I'm not sure how it would happen. Anyone know?

 whembly wrote:



Goodell is protecting the NFL's 'shield' here and I think he has that plenary power.

Which is going to put this thing right in court even quicker.

 whembly wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Anyway, in terms actual news concerning this investigation, it is odd that Roger Goodell has set HIMSELF up to be the 'arbitrator' in this case - I'm not sure that's going to be accepted by the NFLPA, or if it is now 'do not visit Roger, go directly to court'.

Goodell is protecting the NFL's 'shield' here and I think he has that plenary power.

I didn't mean to imply that he COULDN'T do it, just that he SHOULDN'T do it!

It might be useful to read the NFL's Constitution:
http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf

It details the commissioner’s power to resolve disputes and to take action against a person connected with the league, when the person engages in conduct detrimental to the league.

Which is incredibly broad....




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:


I didn't mean to imply that he COULDN'T do it, just that he SHOULDN'T do it!

Understood.

Frankly, the Patriots still need to suffer from Spygate™... at least, until Bellicheck retires.


<-- yes, still smarting from the Rams' lost to Patriot in SB XXXVI.

 Xenomancers wrote:
HAHA, I just figure the seahawks have the most to gain from this and therefore most reason to support these penalties. This Rivalry is new to me.

How do the Seahawks gain anything from this? Suspending Brady and taking away draft picks doesn't go back in time and change the outcome of last year's super bowl, and they don't play again this season unless they both make it to the super bowl. The real winners are the Patriots' division rivals (you know, the teams that play the Patriots at least twice a year), who get a four-game head start and a better draft if the suspension is upheld. And everyone who cares about honest football, of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Have the Colts turned over all their records, emails, cell phones, texts?

We don't know what Andrew Luck has said or arranged with his equipment managers, do we?

Is there any reason to believe that the Colts have cheated in the same way? No.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
HAHA, I just figure the seahawks have the most to gain from this and therefore most reason to support these penalties. This Rivalry is new to me.

How do the Seahawks gain anything from this? Suspending Brady and taking away draft picks doesn't go back in time and change the outcome of last year's super bowl, and they don't play again this season unless they both make it to the super bowl. The real winners are the Patriots' division rivals (you know, the teams that play the Patriots at least twice a year), who get a four-game head start and a better draft if the suspension is upheld. And everyone who cares about honest football, of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Have the Colts turned over all their records, emails, cell phones, texts?

We don't know what Andrew Luck has said or arranged with his equipment managers, do we?

Is there any reason to believe that the Colts have cheated in the same way? No.

Pretty good chance they meet in the super-bowl next season. Seahawks are still the best team in their conference so I expect they will make it and the pats historically win their division every year so there a pretty good chance of a repeat. They also gain more though - they can stop blaming their own poor coaching decisions costing them a superbowl and divert their embarasment saying they lost to "cheaters."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Is there any reason to believe that the Colts have cheated in the same way? No.

I'd say yes because 3/4 of the colts balls were found to be under inflated as well at half time. Yet - luck was not asked to hand over cell phone. Do you dispute this? It's in the wells report.

 Peregrine wrote:


Is there any reason to believe that the Colts have cheated in the same way? No.

'

Yes. That three of the 4 Colts footballs tested were also below the legal limit. But then, you'd know that if you read anything from the Wells report.

It's all there. Educate yourself.

Xenomancers wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

You disappoint me - normally you are very logical when I see you post - you seem content to ignore logic here. You MUST be a sea-hawks fan.

Hey now!!! I'm a Hawks fan, and I resent that remark good sir! In truth he sounds more like a 49ers fan

HAHA, I just figure the seahawks have the most to gain from this and therefore most reason to support these penalties. This Rivalry is new to me.

Yep, "we" Seahawks hate the 49ers so damn much that we passed the ball on the 2 yard line, thus "giving" away the 49th Lombardi Trophy to the Patriots

Xenomancers wrote:How exactly could the NFL commissioner get fired? I think this is what needs to happen but I'm not sure how it would happen. Anyone know?

I think that the commissioner can get fired in this instance if the owners pull together and vote him out. In essence a "vote of no confidence" as if he were the PM of Great Britain. The reasoning wouldn't be JUST this one single case. They would be putting forth the mishandling of the Ray Rice incident, this one, and basically every other negative action, no matter how slight as their evidence of his being unfit for the job.

Kronk as a Side note im really not worked up over this at all :-P I treat football as a nice diversion until hockey season starts up. Once the first puck is dropped football doesn't matter to me until the Super Bowl....and only then if the patriots are in it.

What bothers me (not has me worked up about) is that peregrine continuously points out facts that are incorrect and then xeno or someone else disputes his facts, proves him wrong and then hands over real facts based on the Wells report that prove that this is utter nonsense.

Roger Goodell in my opinion just sealed his own coffin by putting himself as arbitrator. He is literally asking the patriots to take this to court. I personally feel that he handed off the investigation to a 2nd party and put the VP in charge so that he could act as the arbitrator and try to come out of it looking like the hero....unfortunately this backfired and I think Kraft is going to get him canned.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
unfortunately this backfired and I think Kraft is going to get him canned.

I don't believe that Kraft can single-handedly make that happen. As I said above, I think that the collective owners would have to come together to have a vote of no confidence to oust the commissioner.

i think your underestimating Mr Kraft. He is a scary man when angered.

Oooooooooo.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
i think your underestimating Mr Kraft. He is a scary man when angered.

And there are 30 or so other similarly wealthy people who also are "scary" when they are angry. It doesn't change the point I'm making that it will take an NFL owner's constitution majority (whether they require a simple majority or 2/3rds or whatever) to get rid of a guy that much of the "general public" NFL fan likes about as much as they do Obama.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


The only teams I can think of that consistently fill their parks in any sport are the teams with the history. Joe Louis is almost always full, even if the Red Wings "suck", Lambeau Field is always packed. Centurylink field is packed (and the Kingdome before that) Oakland Coliseum is always full when the Raiders are playing, a bit less so when the As are playing. Dodger stadium draws people out, the SF Baseball Giants regularly fill out, etc.

The Raiders? The Raiders have literally the lowest attendance% per game of all of the NFL teams.

And when it comes to baseball, the Cardinals and Red Sox are the first two that come to mind.

Lower than the Jags?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
i think your underestimating Mr Kraft. He is a scary man when angered.

And there are 30 or so other similarly wealthy people who also are "scary" when they are angry. It doesn't change the point I'm making that it will take an NFL owner's constitution majority (whether they require a simple majority or 2/3rds or whatever) to get rid of a guy that much of the "general public" NFL fan likes about as much as they do Obama.

True, but Mr Kraft might not go after him in that way, he could just file so many lawsuits and what not against him for every little infraction that in the end he either steps down or the owners tell him to pack up before they vote him out. Mr Kraft as well as every NFL owner have all sorts of nifty ways to bend the rules in regards to these matters. it helps having billions of dollars in your bank account

Well here's question then. I am a pats fan so I am particularly outraged. I wonder what other owners are thinking right now...

Maybe - if they can pull something like this on Brady and the most popular franchise in the sport - Goodey can do this to anyone.

As stated before hes messed up a lot of stuff lately and seems like hes afraid of public opinion too much. Public opinion should not matter to the NFL commissioner. He should care that everyone "thinks" the pats are cheaters...he should know it's 90% butthurtness anyways and the rest is the fact that the pats don't do anything any other team doesn't do themselves - the pats just have way more attention on them than anyone one else.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well here's question then. I am a pats fan so I am particularly outraged. I wonder what other owners are thinking right now...

Maybe - if they can pull something like this on Brady and the most popular franchise in the sport - Goodey can do this to anyone.

As stated before hes messed up a lot of stuff lately and seems like hes afraid of public opinion too much. Public opinion should not matter to the NFL commissioner. He should care that everyone "thinks" the pats are cheaters...he should know it's 90% butthurtness anyways and the rest is the fact that the pats don't do anything any other team doesn't do themselves - the pats just have way more attention on them than anyone one else.

From here on out you are going to see a lot more harsh penalties to anyone.

Too many people poked the bear too many times. Now he is going to start swatting randomly at everything.

Not saying the bear should not have been poked but in part, this is Goodell giving people the finger.

Goodell serves at the pleasure of the owners.

I don't think he's going to choose to or be allowed to go too crazy.

He'll do enough to 'protect the Shield' and try and restore...his/its/their image - but he's not going to be given free rein.

 Alpharius wrote:
Goodell serves at the pleasure of the owners.

I don't think he's going to choose to or be allowed to go too crazy.

He'll do enough to 'protect the Shield' and try and restore...his/its/their image - but he's not going to be given free rein.

Do you think the punishment the Pats recieved emulates that attitude of the other NFL owners?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well here's question then. I am a pats fan so I am particularly outraged. I wonder what other owners are thinking right now...

I can almost guarantee you that there are at least some cheering his actions against the Pats. Maybe more than some.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Goodell serves at the pleasure of the owners.

I don't think he's going to choose to or be allowed to go too crazy.

He'll do enough to 'protect the Shield' and try and restore...his/its/their image - but he's not going to be given free rein.

Do you think the punishment the Pats recieved emulates that attitude of the other NFL owners?

Some? Sure.

But I think it is more about 'protecting the brand' than anything else, and trying to rehabilitate the NFL's 'image' after the beating it took last year with the Rice, Petersen and Hardy problems.

This is partially the NFL laughably trying to 'look tough' and 'talk tough' about integrity when it...dropped the ball badly on more important problems earlier, it is partially jealousy rearing its ugly head, and it is partially what the Pats deserve given how they've decided to conduct themselves with their 'Castle and Moat' type of behavior.

I'm looking forward to watch how it all unfolds, but I'm not looking forward to hearing about it over and over on the radio and sports channels - I'd rather they talk about the Sox. If, you know, they can turn things around!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Goodell serves at the pleasure of the owners.

I don't think he's going to choose to or be allowed to go too crazy.

He'll do enough to 'protect the Shield' and try and restore...his/its/their image - but he's not going to be given free rein.

Do you think the punishment the Pats recieved emulates that attitude of the other NFL owners?

Some? Sure.

But I think it is more about 'protecting the brand' than anything else, and trying to rehabilitate the NFL's 'image' after the beating it took last year with the Rice, Petersen and Hardy problems.

This is partially the NFL laughably trying to 'look tough' and 'talk tough' about integrity when it...dropped the ball badly on more important problems earlier, it is partially jealousy rearing its ugly head, and it is partially what the Pats deserve given how they've decided to conduct themselves with their 'Castle and Moat' type of behavior.

I'm looking forward to watch how it all unfolds, but I'm not looking forward to hearing about it over and over on the radio and sports channels - I'd rather they talk about the Sox. If, you know, they can turn things around!

I think this may have been the most succinct post on the matter so far. Exalted my friend :-)

 Alpharius wrote:

I'm looking forward to watch how it all unfolds, but I'm not looking forward to hearing about it over and over on the radio and sports channels - I'd rather they talk about the Sox. If, you know, they can turn things around!

This is why I've avoided any sports channels/shows other than MLB stuff, or MLB Network.... and just as it's a problem in politics, I find it just as aggravating when they sensationalize and polarize issues so needlessly, and we have the endless train of BS until the resolution comes about finally, and quite often it seems that a lot of people say, "really? I waited all this time for THIS? why did I care so much about this gak?"

 Alpharius wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Goodell serves at the pleasure of the owners.

I don't think he's going to choose to or be allowed to go too crazy.

He'll do enough to 'protect the Shield' and try and restore...his/its/their image - but he's not going to be given free rein.

Do you think the punishment the Pats recieved emulates that attitude of the other NFL owners?

Some? Sure.

But I think it is more about 'protecting the brand' than anything else, and trying to rehabilitate the NFL's 'image' after the beating it took last year with the Rice, Petersen and Hardy problems.

This is partially the NFL laughably trying to 'look tough' and 'talk tough' about integrity when it...dropped the ball badly on more important problems earlier, it is partially jealousy rearing its ugly head, and it is partially what the Pats deserve given how they've decided to conduct themselves with their 'Castle and Moat' type of behavior.


I'm looking forward to watch how it all unfolds, but I'm not looking forward to hearing about it over and over on the radio and sports channels - I'd rather they talk about the Sox. If, you know, they can turn things around!

Sox don't have a chance - worst team weve put out in a looong time. Basically bottom of the barrel in every category and it's their own fault for being cheap - letting good players go - and overestimating their talents. It's sad but it's hardly a surprise 0 hitting and 0 pitching means you don't go .500. Just wondering - do you think this would be a suitable penalty if all of these charges turn out to be true? I think it's excessive. Plus, a lot of this stuff doesn't even add up - making it even more excessive.

The problem here is that it does seem very excessive - the highest penalty ever levied - for something that they basically don't have 100% concrete proof on.

So ultimately, if Goodell (or a truly neutral 3rd party arbitrator if Goodell recuses himself) doesn't significantly reduce the penalties, off to court we go!

And I'm starting to think that almost no matter what, unless there's no suspension, Brady and the NFLPA are going to court.

I'd hope cooler head will prevail though and we end up with:

1) $500K fine
2) Loss of 2017 4th round pick
3) Brady suspended for 1 (2 games max) for being 'uncooperative'

Kraft accepts NFL Punishment!!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-kraft-drops-the-fight--says-he-ll-accept-deflate-gate-punishment-171900816.html

 Blokus wrote:
Kraft accepts NFL Punishment!!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-kraft-drops-the-fight--says-he-ll-accept-deflate-gate-punishment-171900816.html

He got his trophy.

Mission accomplished.

To say I'm pretty disappointed by that might be the understatement of the decade for me. That is all.